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Hossaim
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Founded: Oct 08, 2010
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Postby Hossaim » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

The Akkadian Empire wrote:
Finium wrote:It's simple,

Christianity is the blind belief in something we have no proof for
Atheism is the blind disbelief in something we have no proof against

I prefer the more proactive side, cause if I die as a Christian and it not true I havent lost anything, but if I'm an atheist and Christianity is true, then wow am I screwed

That is a somewhat sensible comment that I somewhat agree with. Note, I don't follow Christianity just so I can be saved from the fires of damnation.

It is just about the same principle, I forgot who came up with, that states:
If I do not believe in God and I have lived a Good life, then I will go to heaven
If I do not believe in God and I have lived an Evil life, then I will go to hell
If I believe in God and I have lived a Good life, I will go to heaven
If I believe in God and I have lived an Evil life, I will go to hell

But Heaven and Hell both don't exists so what's the point.
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The Akkadian Empire
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Posts: 302
Founded: Oct 08, 2011
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Postby The Akkadian Empire » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Genivaria wrote:
The Akkadian Empire wrote:So you have evidence that the "Big Bang" wasn't created by God, and you fully understand and know how it worked and formed everything leading up to Homo Sapiens and beyond?

No, again, you don't. Yet you seem to have faith in science then in God.

You don't win anything except your attempts at ruining other peoples days, good job, you must be proud.

The faith in science line? Really? You must be desperate.

Desperate for what? Is this some kind of game that I am trying to win?

No, because that is the truth. If you will not prove the entire Big Bang just as we Christians are expected to prove Gods creation, then do not play this game with me and the rest of my fellows. Because that, friend, is ignorance.

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

The Akkadian Empire wrote:
Finium wrote:It's simple,

Christianity is the blind belief in something we have no proof for
Atheism is the blind disbelief in something we have no proof against

I prefer the more proactive side, cause if I die as a Christian and it not true I havent lost anything, but if I'm an atheist and Christianity is true, then wow am I screwed

That is a somewhat sensible comment that I somewhat agree with. Note, I don't follow Christianity just so I can be saved from the fires of damnation.

It is just about the same principle, I forgot who came up with, that states:
If I do not believe in God and I have lived a Good life, then I will go to heaven
If I do not believe in God and I have lived an Evil life, then I will go to hell
If I believe in God and I have lived a Good life, I will go to heaven
If I believe in God and I have lived an Evil life, I will go to hell


Pascal's Wager is literally the laughing stock of the philosophical and religious debate community.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Renascibilitas
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Founded: Mar 28, 2012
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Postby Renascibilitas » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Soviet Canuckistan wrote:
Drouga wrote:
Unless one of the thousands of other religions(most older than Christianity) in the world turn out to be true. Then you're screwed either way.

But at least I don't hate all religions, so I'm less screwed than the atheist who hates that religion.


I don't think God is going to say, ''Well, you weren't the right religion, but you didn't hate us, so come on in!''

Can you cite one religion that teaches that?
Last edited by Renascibilitas on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”
― Christopher Hitchens

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Finium
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Founded: Nov 17, 2010
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Postby Finium » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Drouga wrote:
Finium wrote:It's simple,

Christianity is the blind belief in something we have no proof for
Atheism is the blind disbelief in something we have no proof against

I prefer the more proactive side, cause if I die as a Christian and it not true I havent lost anything, but if I'm an atheist and Christianity is true, then wow am I screwed


Unless one of the thousands of other religions(most older than Christianity) in the world turn out to be true. Then you're screwed either way.


Original Covenant -> Noah's Covenant -> Abraham's Covenant -> Mosaic Covenant (Judaism) -> Christ's Covenant (Christianity).
Seems like the whole God thing is pretty much older than anything else, but point taken.
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Wisconsin7
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Posts: 1656
Founded: Sep 21, 2011
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Postby Wisconsin7 » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Soviet Canuckistan wrote:
Finium wrote:It's simple,

Christianity is the blind belief in something we have no proof for
Atheism is the blind disbelief in something we have no proof against

I prefer the more proactive side, cause if I die as a Christian and it not true I havent lost anything, but if I'm an atheist and Christianity is true, then wow am I screwed

Agreed, there are many unknowns on this Earth, physics can't prove everything

Physics don't prove anything. It's observations about the universe that proves physics, because those physics are what created... everything.
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Rupudska
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Founded: Sep 16, 2010
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Postby Rupudska » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Renascibilitas wrote:
Rupudska wrote:
You know, the Pope is starting to become the Hi[Godwin'd] of religious discussions.


I don't care for anything like that. The Pope and the church have done nothing good for society. The Vatican has their expensive palaces and buildings, the Pope has his fine-tailored red shoes and mitre. Meanwhile people are suffering because of what they've said.


I'm not saying you care. I'm simply pointing out something I've noticed. No matter what religion a discussion thread starts out talking about, the Pope somehow gets brought up.
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Rupudska wrote:So do you fight with AK-47s or something even more primitive? Since I doubt any economy could reasonably sustain itself that way.
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Ende
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Founded: Jan 23, 2012
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Postby Ende » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:11 pm

Vaklor wrote:
Finium wrote:It's simple,

Christianity is the blind belief in something we have no proof for
Atheism is the blind disbelief in something we have no proof against

I prefer the more proactive side, cause if I die as a Christian and it not true I havent lost anything, but if I'm an atheist and Christianity is true, then wow am I screwed

except youve lost your free will, dignity, intelligence, etc.

..........

Have you actually met any Christians?

Tell you what. Get your fat pimply ass off your computer seat and go out into the actual world. Talk to real people.

Then come back here.

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Soviet Canuckistan wrote:
Finium wrote:It's simple,

Christianity is the blind belief in something we have no proof for
Atheism is the blind disbelief in something we have no proof against

I prefer the more proactive side, cause if I die as a Christian and it not true I havent lost anything, but if I'm an atheist and Christianity is true, then wow am I screwed

Agreed, there are many unknowns on this Earth, physics can't prove everything


Except we never claim that. It works though. You know that computer you're using? Physics. Not God. PHYSICS.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The Akkadian Empire wrote:So you have evidence that the "Big Bang" wasn't created by God, and you fully understand and know how it worked and formed everything leading up to Homo Sapiens and beyond?

Never said that. There is no evidence God exists. Unlike you, I can admit that I DO NOT KNOW. Here's the thing: I don't pretend to know by inserting something that I have no evidence for. I just explained events from the formation of the universe to humans.

If I was given undeniable proof that a "God" exists. I would become a believer. I would change my mind there.
How many theists can say the same?

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The Akkadian Empire
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Posts: 302
Founded: Oct 08, 2011
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Postby The Akkadian Empire » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:12 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
The Akkadian Empire wrote:That is a somewhat sensible comment that I somewhat agree with. Note, I don't follow Christianity just so I can be saved from the fires of damnation.

It is just about the same principle, I forgot who came up with, that states:
If I do not believe in God and I have lived a Good life, then I will go to heaven
If I do not believe in God and I have lived an Evil life, then I will go to hell
If I believe in God and I have lived a Good life, I will go to heaven
If I believe in God and I have lived an Evil life, I will go to hell


Pascal's Wager is literally the laughing stock of the philosophical and religious debate community.
Thanks for sharing?

I do not follow "Pascal's Wager", so thanks for enlightening me. Perhaps now you will tell me that Shakesphere did not write any of his plays and was a fraud, or something else that has no burden on me?

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Finium
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Founded: Nov 17, 2010
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Postby Finium » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Never said that. There is no evidence God exists. Unlike you, I can admit that I DO NOT KNOW. Here's the thing: I don't pretend to know by inserting something that I have no evidence for. I just explained events from the formation of the universe to humans.

If I was given undeniable proof that a "God" exists. I would become a believer. I would change my mind there.
How many theists can say the same?

Me!
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Renascibilitas
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Posts: 655
Founded: Mar 28, 2012
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Postby Renascibilitas » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Rupudska wrote:
Renascibilitas wrote:
I don't care for anything like that. The Pope and the church have done nothing good for society. The Vatican has their expensive palaces and buildings, the Pope has his fine-tailored red shoes and mitre. Meanwhile people are suffering because of what they've said.


I'm not saying you care. I'm simply pointing out something I've noticed. No matter what religion a discussion thread starts out talking about, the Pope somehow gets brought up.


I mentioned it because of priority. If you want to stop murders, go for the biggest ones instead of some obscure militia in Central Africa.
“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”
― Christopher Hitchens

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Never said that. There is no evidence God exists. Unlike you, I can admit that I DO NOT KNOW. Here's the thing: I don't pretend to know by inserting something that I have no evidence for. I just explained events from the formation of the universe to humans.

If I was given undeniable proof that a "God" exists. I would become a believer. I would change my mind there.
How many theists can say the same?


I can't wait to meet a species of aliens that have unlocked the secrets of the universe.
Last edited by Mavorpen on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Soviet Canuckistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
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Postby Soviet Canuckistan » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Soviet Canuckistan wrote:Agreed, there are many unknowns on this Earth, physics can't prove everything


Except we never claim that. It works though. You know that computer you're using? Physics. Not God. PHYSICS.

But who made physics happen, everything comes from something, but how was that something created.
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The Akkadian Empire
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Founded: Oct 08, 2011
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Postby The Akkadian Empire » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:Never said that. There is no evidence God exists. Unlike you, I can admit that I DO NOT KNOW. Here's the thing: I don't pretend to know by inserting something that I have no evidence for. I just explained events from the formation of the universe to humans.

If I was given undeniable proof that a "God" exists. I would become a believer. I would change my mind there.
How many theists can say the same?

If I was given undeniable proof that God does not exist, I would revoke my faith in God and change my mind?

Yes, but I daresay that there is no possibility of that happening. So your point is moot.

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Drouga
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Posts: 34
Founded: Jan 05, 2012
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Postby Drouga » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:13 pm

You people want to talk about logic?

Lack of evidence = something does not exist (this is true for everything not just religion. What if justice trials were just taken of faith?)

Lack of evidence that something does not exist =/= something exists (this is why most people do not believe in bigfoot, lock ness monster, etc. so, yes. God is a cryptid.)

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Genivaria
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Founded: Mar 29, 2011
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

The Akkadian Empire wrote:
Genivaria wrote:The faith in science line? Really? You must be desperate.

Desperate for what? Is this some kind of game that I am trying to win?

No, because that is the truth. If you will not prove the entire Big Bang just as we Christians are expected to prove Gods creation, then do not play this game with me and the rest of my fellows. Because that, friend, is ignorance.

In the context of that sentence, a much more appropriate word would be 'hypocrisy'.
And actually there IS evidence which supports the Big Bang theory.
If you've passed high school science class then you've seen it at least once.

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Fedeledland
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Founded: Mar 27, 2010
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Postby Fedeledland » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

Rupudska wrote:
Renascibilitas wrote:
I don't care for anything like that. The Pope and the church have done nothing good for society. The Vatican has their expensive palaces and buildings, the Pope has his fine-tailored red shoes and mitre. Meanwhile people are suffering because of what they've said.


I'm not saying you care. I'm simply pointing out something I've noticed. No matter what religion a discussion thread starts out talking about, the Pope somehow gets brought up.


Yes because the pope is the leader of the largest single religious community.
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Renascibilitas
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Founded: Mar 28, 2012
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Postby Renascibilitas » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

Soviet Canuckistan wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Except we never claim that. It works though. You know that computer you're using? Physics. Not God. PHYSICS.

But who made physics happen, everything comes from something, but how was that something created.


It's funny because the same argument you're using to try and prove God exist can also be used to prove he doesn't.
“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”
― Christopher Hitchens

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Mavorpen
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Founded: Dec 20, 2011
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

The Akkadian Empire wrote:
I do not follow "Pascal's Wager", so thanks for enlightening me. Perhaps now you will tell me that Shakesphere did not write any of his plays and was a fraud, or something else that has no burden on me?


What you described is Pascal's Wager. :palm:

I don't like Shakespeare.
"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did."—former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman

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Finium
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Founded: Nov 17, 2010
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Postby Finium » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Genivaria wrote:If I was given undeniable proof that a "God" exists. I would become a believer. I would change my mind there.
How many theists can say the same?


I can't wait to meet a species of aliens that have unlocked the secrets of the universe.

See! Everyone always bring sup the Pope :lol:
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Soviet Canuckistan
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Founded: Oct 16, 2011
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Postby Soviet Canuckistan » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

How does this have anything to do with Easter?
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The Akkadian Empire
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Founded: Oct 08, 2011
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Postby The Akkadian Empire » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:14 pm

Hossaim wrote:But Heaven and Hell both don't exists so what's the point.

Quite simply it is better to live a life of Good than Evil, Faithful to a God or not.

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Fedeledland
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Founded: Mar 27, 2010
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Postby Fedeledland » Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:15 pm

Soviet Canuckistan wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Except we never claim that. It works though. You know that computer you're using? Physics. Not God. PHYSICS.

But who made physics happen, everything comes from something, but how was that something created.

More physics.
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