Education Reform Discussion

[Greed and Death]

I would support keeping mid-late summer off, seeing as how damn hot it gets. Other than that, yeah, spread it across the year.

I say a month during summer, 3 weeks during winter. and a one week break in the middle of each semester(though maybe run three sessions so trimester).

[Intangelon]

I can't speak for the USA, but I know that schools where I live in south Essex are considering replacing the existing structure of terms and half terms with a long summer holiday with one based on having a two week break only every six weeks (or something like that, I can't be bothered to do the maths.) In theory it's a good idea, six weeks off in summer is a bit too long, but having large numbers of children in school in hot steamy August isn't necessarily the best learning envrionment. There may also be issues with parents taking kids out off school to go on holiday if there is only a short summer break.

That's why in August, you travel and learn some things empirically -- the best way some things are learned -- such as, well, how to travel.

[Intangelon]

*snip*

Finally, emphasis needs to be placed on math and science. - English and Social Studies are nice classes, but they are not going to equip a future workforce with the knowledge required in the same manors as math and science do. And finally, no more "Debate" about evolution in schools. It should be mandatory and unquestioned. - Religion should be kept out of school ENTIRELY. Their should be no debate over that.

Clearly.

[Lacadaemon]

*snip*

Finally, emphasis needs to be placed on math and science. - English and Social Studies are nice classes, but they are not going to equip a future workforce with the knowledge required in the same manors as math and science do. And finally, no more "Debate" about evolution in schools. It should be mandatory and unquestioned. - Religion should be kept out of school ENTIRELY. Their should be no debate over that.

Clearly.

Well it's easy to make fun of him(?). But he does raise a significant point. What shape is society going to have in the future? And that will very much be determined by the available labor pool and how the government interacts with it. Frankly, given the hell bent pace of globalization, nobody cares about good spelling or grammatically correct English. So should the government waste resources enforcing some 19th century insular standard of communication? Wouldn't that time be better spent teaching pidgin Mandarin?

Moreover, look at employment rations. Every manufacturing job creates six others. Service and entertainment jobs can't claim the same. But the only way to repatriate manufacturing is to seize the high ground in innovation. So the US is in the position of having to run faster just to stay in place. Under globalization Arts become like agriculture; an inevitably smaller %ge of GDP.

I'm not particularly fond of the pace of globalization as it stands. But it is happening. So it's a bit foolish to make fun of people who rightly point out some of the downside.

[Katganistan]

I have a crazy idea; maybe parents ought to take a more active role in their child's education. Hell, maybe they'll learn a thing or two also.

I have an even crazier idea: Maybe families ought to be able to make a decent living without at least two 40-hour incomes(or sometimes more) so they actually get to meet their kids from time to time.

[The Romulan Republic]

During my first year at uni it was expalined that any mobile phones ringing during a lecture or tutorial would be thrown out of the window. It only happened once that I knew about, during the third week and from a 3rd floor lecture hall, I never heard of it needing to happen again.

Effective and funny.

So you find the violation of student's property rights to be amusing?

Right now I am not at university, but if I was, I would have a completely legitimate reason to have a cell phone. Specifically, I have a potential job where I am basically "on call," meaning I could be asked to come in at any time (though if I was in class I obviously couldn't). Nonetheless, my point is that their are legitimate reasons to carry a cell phone wherever one goes, and when I go out, I always carry a cell phone. If I was going to classes I would take it with me, and if it got thrown out a window I would see whoever was responsible in court.

Edited for clarity.

[Katganistan]

During my first year at uni it was expalined that any mobile phones ringing during a lecture or tutorial would be thrown out of the window. It only happened once that I knew about, during the third week and from a 3rd floor lecture hall, I never heard of it needing to happen again.

Effective and funny.

So you find the violation of student's property rights to be amusing?

Right now I am not at university, but if I was, I would have a completely legitimate reason to have a cell phone. Specifically, I have a potential job where I am basically "on call," meaning I could be asked to come in at any time (though if I was in class I obviously couldn't). So when I go out, I carry a cell phone. If I was going to classes I would take it with me, and if it got thrown out a window I would see whoever was responsible in court.

Would you be rude enough to have it on ring, or considerate enough to have it on vibrate?

[Gauntleted Fist]

During my first year at uni it was expalined that any mobile phones ringing during a lecture or tutorial would be thrown out of the window. It only happened once that I knew about, during the third week and from a 3rd floor lecture hall, I never heard of it needing to happen again.

Effective and funny.

My Poli Sci professor just cancels class if a cell-phone goes off.

Right in mid-lecture. Happened last Tuesday.

Funniest thing I ever saw.

[Lacadaemon]

During my first year at uni it was expalined that any mobile phones ringing during a lecture or tutorial would be thrown out of the window. It only happened once that I knew about, during the third week and from a 3rd floor lecture hall, I never heard of it needing to happen again.

Effective and funny.

My Poli Sci professor just cancels class if a cell-phone goes off.

Right in mid-lecture. Happened last Tuesday.

Funniest thing I ever saw.

Dude. That is awesomes. I would have had a cell phone go off within the first three minutes of every lecture. (He/she would rescind the rule, they are all blowhards and love the power).

[The Romulan Republic]

Would you be rude enough to have it on ring, or considerate enough to have it on vibrate?

I don't think I'd have it on ring intentionally, but accidentally? Mistakes happen, and one should not be forcibly deprived of their property for them. Completely disproportional response.

[Gauntleted Fist]

During my first year at uni it was expalined that any mobile phones ringing during a lecture or tutorial would be thrown out of the window. It only happened once that I knew about, during the third week and from a 3rd floor lecture hall, I never heard of it needing to happen again.

Effective and funny.

My Poli Sci professor just cancels class if a cell-phone goes off.

Right in mid-lecture. Happened last Tuesday.

Funniest thing I ever saw.

Dude. That is awesomes. I would have had a cell phone go off within the first three minutes of every lecture. (He/she would rescind the rule, they are all blowhards and love the power).

I got a basically free day out of it, so I'm not complaining.

And the course material we were going over was pathetically easy, so it was win-win.

And, in his words (To agree with what you said about them being blowhards), "I teach a course on democracy by being an arbitrary dictator. Diametric juxtaposition is such wonderful fun, isn't it?"

[Lacadaemon]

And, in his words (To agree with what you said about them being blowhards), "I teach a course on democracy by being an arbitrary dictator. Diametric juxtaposition is such wonderful fun, isn't it?"

So he's a knob. Basically.

[Ryadn]

I think giving me a full-time position so I don't have to substitute and clean offices to make ends meet would be a good first step.

[Ryadn]

I've been talking and talking with my friends about this issue, mostly because I haven't been able to get on NSG regularly. Now that I am here however I would like to start a discussion about it here; what things do you think need done to reform the education in your nation?


I live in the USA, and I am not a fan of the 3 month summer break students receive every single year in most schools throughout the nation. Students are entitled to about 90 days of summer vacation on top of the 30 or more days (plus weekends) off students receive normally throughout the school year. In theory I don't disagree with giving students plenty of time off, however I think that an entire three month block of time of is far too much; students are then forced to play catch up at school with the first six or more weeks being used as a review of what they had studied the previous year.
My youngest brother whom is 16 years old has already used the "Well I don't remember this stuff anymore." excuse enough to make me want to perpetrate violence upon him. The three month vacation block should be repealed. A seemingly better idea would be a continuous block of classes with weekends off for a set amount of weeks, and then an allotted holiday that would go the entire year around.

This is just one idea, I would like to see that the rest of NSG comes up with.

A few problems with that. One, if the block schedule actually adds school days rather than just redistributing holiday time, you've got to pay everyone more. Teachers in my district are paid to teach 180 days of school. If you want them to teach more, you have to pay them more, and the district is not fond of paying us more. Two, even if you keep the number of instructional days the same and just rearrange the days off, it's going to cost schools more money just because a two-week gap isn't long enough to shut the school down and bar staff from working, the way a three-month layover is. They'll have to maintain the school, retain custodial services, pay for utilities, pay administrative staff, etc. There's also the issue of summer school; struggling students won't have that period of intense focus to try and make up ground. Summer camps and daycare facilities would also take a hit and have to adapt, as would working parents who use their services.

[Sarkhaan]

Charter schools and private schools replacing public schools would be a practical economic solution. After all, public schools take a lot of money to maintain and have proven to be highly inefficient.

Show me a source.

Your first error is this: Charter schools ARE public schools.
Your next error is this: charter schools and private schools can educated students at a lower cost per student because they are able to select whom they teach. Traditional public schools have no such ability. For every "regular" student you remove, the cost per student increases thanks to special ed students and other students otherwise denied by private and charter schools.

Actually, most research has shown that all schools, adjusting for socieo-economic status and special ed departments, perform at equal levels, tied directly to funding levels.

[Dazchan]

Firstly, they need to redo the courses. Have two types for each of the core courses

Why two types, and who would pay for it?

Their needs to be less fun, waste, goofing around, unintelligible nonsense in our school systems.

I disagree. Learning should be fun.

For example, the school I went to just spent millions of dollars re-doing its parking lot and athletic stadium. Yet, in some classes there is not a book for every student. I am going to be blunt about this as well, this is a rich, white suburban public school that is ranked among some of the highest in the country. I cannot even imagine how poorly some of the less fortunate schools do when I see such wastes in this school.

That money may have been a tied grant, given to the school for that purpose.

Athletics need to be taken out of school entirely, it is a waste of money, money that should be spent on education.

So you don't believe in multiple intelligences? You really think people don't learn anything from sport?

Secondly, Teachers unions need to be weakened. While I think it is important that they are protected by unions, it simply cannot be as powerful as it is. Bad teachers who would have been fired, if they worked in any other profession are allowed to keep their jobs because school's are not powerful enough to get rid of them.

Source? And I mean beyond sour grapes towards every teacher who gave you an F.

Secondly, a lot of crap in the classroom needs to be stopped. Cellphones should not leave lockers, if they are caught in a classroom, they should be confiscated for the rest of the year, no exceptions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft

Children who do not perform to a certain standard should be required to spend another hour after school in the class they are failing at least once a week.

Wonderful. Unpaid overtime. No wonder you want to weaken unions.

I see to many people failing shit just because they don't care or don't try.

That's their choice

Finally, emphasis needs to be placed on math and science. - English and Social Studies are nice classes, but they are not going to equip a future workforce with the knowledge required in the same manors as math and science do.

What? You don't think that being able to master one's native language, and communicate effectively using it will benefit students as much as science?

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

If I could have, I would have thrown my shoe at that guy.

Edited because that's a really bad idea. <.<;

I'd also throw my shoe at him, given the chance. However, I'd do so because he's an ID advocate, not because he has the personality of sandpaper.

[Smunkeeville]

Picture this; classrooms where each student has a personal computer that contains his entire educational history and follows him his entire school years. The computer is programed with learning/testing modules for every subject that need be completed within a certain time frame. The student can work through the modules in any order he wished as long as he has successfully completed the entire program in the alloted time.
I'm guessing here that two teacher/monitors would be required for 40-50 students to keep them on track and offer additional instruction as needed.

Students could then take off any days that are convienient for thier families as long as they meet the yearly minimum attendance requirement.

I realize that it is important that classmates need to occasionally interact as a group. This should be when it is actually meaningful to be in group session such as speeches from other students, open discussions, arts and music activities, sports and of course recess.

It's called homeschooling. People already do that.

[Bottle]

I've been talking and talking with my friends about this issue, mostly because I haven't been able to get on NSG regularly. Now that I am here however I would like to start a discussion about it here; what things do you think need done to reform the education in your nation?


I live in the USA, and I am not a fan of the 3 month summer break students receive every single year in most schools throughout the nation. Students are entitled to about 90 days of summer vacation on top of the 30 or more days (plus weekends) off students receive normally throughout the school year. In theory I don't disagree with giving students plenty of time off, however I think that an entire three month block of time of is far too much; students are then forced to play catch up at school with the first six or more weeks being used as a review of what they had studied the previous year.
My youngest brother whom is 16 years old has already used the "Well I don't remember this stuff anymore." excuse enough to make me want to perpetrate violence upon him. The three month vacation block should be repealed. A seemingly better idea would be a continuous block of classes with weekends off for a set amount of weeks, and then an allotted holiday that would go the entire year around.

This is just one idea, I would like to see that the rest of NSG comes up with.

The problem with eliminating summer vacation is that a lot of (older) kids work during the summer. Many of my friends needed that 3-month block of time so they could get a full time job and start saving for college. Others get full-time internships, or other positions that wouldn't be compatible with a school schedule. Younger kids often go to summer camps, or (if they're very lucky) on longer family vacations.

I agree that there are drawbacks to having a long summer vacation, and maybe for younger kids it would be okay to have three separate one-month vacations distributed throughout the year, but for teens I think it is important to be able to get a summer job.

[Bottle]

*snip*

Finally, emphasis needs to be placed on math and science. - English and Social Studies are nice classes, but they are not going to equip a future workforce with the knowledge required in the same manors as math and science do. And finally, no more "Debate" about evolution in schools. It should be mandatory and unquestioned. - Religion should be kept out of school ENTIRELY. Their should be no debate over that.

Clearly.

I have to say, the lack of good English education was most shockingly apparent to me during my freshman year in college. I didn't go to an Ivy League or anything, but I went to a good college, and there were kids who got into this school without knowing what an adverb is. There were kids who could not write a basic 5-paragraph essay.

I love literature, but I don't expect everyone to love it, so honestly I don't care if kids graduate high school without having read Dickens or whatever. I do think that they should have a WORKING knowledge of their own native language, though, and should be able to compose cogent essays/reports by the time they hit college. That's a skill that is helpful in so many different professions.