Education Reform Discussion

[SaintB]

I've been talking and talking with my friends about this issue, mostly because I haven't been able to get on NSG regularly. Now that I am here however I would like to start a discussion about it here; what things do you think need done to reform the education in your nation?


I live in the USA, and I am not a fan of the 3 month summer break students receive every single year in most schools throughout the nation. Students are entitled to about 90 days of summer vacation on top of the 30 or more days (plus weekends) off students receive normally throughout the school year. In theory I don't disagree with giving students plenty of time off, however I think that an entire three month block of time of is far too much; students are then forced to play catch up at school with the first six or more weeks being used as a review of what they had studied the previous year.
My youngest brother whom is 16 years old has already used the "Well I don't remember this stuff anymore." excuse enough to make me want to perpetrate violence upon him. The three month vacation block should be repealed. A seemingly better idea would be a continuous block of classes with weekends off for a set amount of weeks, and then an allotted holiday that would go the entire year around.

This is just one idea, I would like to see that the rest of NSG comes up with.

[RightLeaningChristians]

When I was homeschooled I didn't take breaks, and I felt I learned and retained more.


No Summer breaks
No Holidays
No Weekends
etc.

[Kryozerkia]

There should be a balance between time spent in the classroom and time spent relaxing. There needs to be some down time in order for students to review what they have learned and better understand what has been taught to date. A balance between work and leisure is important. I always hated having so much time off between one year of school and the next. I think having two weeks between each semester would be a good idea. It gives students a chance to relax after working hard. This was how it was with my post-secondary education. Just a couple of weeks or so between semesters. My mind was still sharp but I felt relaxed when I returned to class.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I only get 2 1/2 months.

In reality, it's true that us students would retain more knowledge and have the time to learn much more. However (although maybe this is because subconsciously I know the year is ending), I always feel like school drags on towards the end, and a nice long break is just what we need. Of course, this is a student speaking, but there are some advantages.

I just need to think of them.

[Buffett and Colbert]

When I was homeschooled I didn't take breaks, and I felt I learned and retained more.


No Summer breaks
No Holidays
No Weekends
etc.

Are you a zombie drone?

/sarcasm

[RightLeaningChristians]

When I was homeschooled I didn't take breaks, and I felt I learned and retained more.


No Summer breaks
No Holidays
No Weekends
etc.

Are you a zombie drone?

/sarcasm

Hah. Nawww.

But I found my school work to be fun! So it wasn't a problem for me.

[Kryozerkia]

When I was homeschooled I didn't take breaks, and I felt I learned and retained more.


No Summer breaks
No Holidays
No Weekends
etc.

Are you a zombie drone?

/sarcasm

Hah. Nawww.

But I found my school work to be fun! So it wasn't a problem for me.

If it's presented in a unique and interactive way that gets the student thinking it can be fun. Of course, one does need a break from fun once in a while in order to just to do something they want to do.

[Newer Burmecia]

I can't speak for the USA, but I know that schools where I live in south Essex are considering replacing the existing structure of terms and half terms with a long summer holiday with one based on having a two week break only every six weeks (or something like that, I can't be bothered to do the maths.) In theory it's a good idea, six weeks off in summer is a bit too long, but having large numbers of children in school in hot steamy August isn't necessarily the best learning envrionment. There may also be issues with parents taking kids out off school to go on holiday if there is only a short summer break.

[Buffett and Colbert]

If it's presented in a unique and interactive way that gets the student thinking it can be fun. Of course, one does need a break from fun once in a while in order to just to do something they want to do.

There is such a thing as too much fun.

Personally, I WOULD take some of my classes all year round. It's just some others that make me want to retch...

[Yootopia]

having large numbers of children in school in hot steamy August isn't necessarily the best learning envrionment.

Damn right, Chelmsford is like bloody Saigon in Summer.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

I would support a option for students to take holidays respective of their beliefs rather than defaulting it all to Xmas or Easter.

So:

One summer holiday
One winter holiday
two half-terms
bank holidays
one religious holiday of student's choice or general spring holiday for irreligious.

[Yootopia]

I would support a option for students to take holidays respective of their beliefs rather than defaulting it all to Xmas.

This would make timetabling lessons in schools far simpler for teachers. Yes.

[Greed and Death]

Remove the summer break spread the holiday out over the school year.

For federal government stop giving money to the states.
Instead give federal aid money directly to the school, that the child attends regardless if private or public(- some for special ed kids).
Allow children and parents to choose any school with room for them.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

I was once thinking about one bank holiday per month, but it was quite a pressure on the system. My previous suggestion may be one of best fit because sometimes, some may need more than just a week in Spain, for example.

[Ploutokratia]

I wholeheartedly agree that the summer break should be eliminated. The human learning process isn't something that can endure days let alone months of inactivity. The situation is only exacerbated by the realization that most of what is taught in schools today depend on rote memorization. In my opinion, schools should focus on igniting and maintaining the fire of life-lasting curiosity and critical analysis. In reality, people don't need teachers to memorize the multiplication table or whatnot. Anybody can do that on their own as long as they have the desire and motivation. Therefore, I think the role of the teacher should be to inspire rather than direct; infuse students with eagerness so that he/she may truly reach the limits of mankind's greatest gift: the brain.

My thoughts basically come down to this:
"Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime"

[SaintB]

I would support a option for students to take holidays respective of their beliefs rather than defaulting it all to Xmas or Easter.

So:

One summer holiday
One winter holiday
two half-terms
bank holidays
one religious holiday of student's choice or general spring holiday for irreligious.

I like that idea too.

[Sarkhaan]

3 months on, 1 month off is a system I'd like to see implimented more.
I'd also like schools to start later...say, 9 AM rather than 7:20 AM, when students are actually awake enough to possibly learn something.
Increase funding for special education including gifted and talented
Increase national use of standard-based education
Develop a national curriculum (keep it voluntary, but encourage its use)
Ease transitions for teachers between states
Track students rather than schools for progress (IE, each student has a number that sticks with them regardless of where they move, so schools with a high turnover rate are not penalized for the fact that they have an entirely new class every three years)
Standardization of the application process through the use of central servers to reduce HR costs


That's a decent start.

[Sarkhaan]

I would support a option for students to take holidays respective of their beliefs rather than defaulting it all to Xmas or Easter.

So:

One summer holiday
One winter holiday
two half-terms
bank holidays
one religious holiday of student's choice or general spring holiday for irreligious.

I dislike having students free to take off any random holiday of their choice, as it disrupts the classroom.
A) As a teacher, I would be required to be in school for all of the holidays or use up a sick day.
B) If I am in a Christian-majority district (as all are in the US), most of the class will be taking off Christmas, making instruction nearly pointless on that day. If there is a high Jewish population, it becomes equally pointless to continue instruction on Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur. Too much of the class is missing, and I'll end up needing to redo the entire class day to catch up all of the missing students.

[Sarkhaan]

Remove the summer break spread the holiday out over the school year.

For federal government stop giving money to the states.
Instead give federal aid money directly to the school, that the child attends regardless if private or public(- some for special ed kids).
Allow children and parents to choose any school with room for them.

Edit: reading comprehension is a bit off for me.

Issues with giving money to private and religious schools out of the public fund:
Giving federal or state money to a religious school breaks the first amendment.
Private schools can select who attends and who does not. If you are failing, if you have behavioral issues, etc, they can kick you out. Then, you end up in the public schools that have essentially become centers for failing students, behavior issue kids, and those that are too poor to transport their children to the private schools. Essentially this system helps those who need less help, while crushing those that need more.
Private schools have no requirement to offer sped resources. Again, the kids that need the most help and use the most resources are failed by the school choice system.
Private schools are not accountable to state regulations.

Ideal hybrid is to allow a certain number of charter and pilot schools per district or region if they can be reasonably supported by the local population (magnet schools would also work over a larger area). Tie funding to students within the system, but with every school still getting a base level of funding. Increase funding for students enrolled in sped programs (including G&T)

[Tekania]

Instead give federal aid money directly to the [public] school, that the child attends regardless if private or public(- some for special ed kids).

This describes the present Title I program... Though sending money to private schools? Nope... No proper oversight...

[Macindia]

I think the Three months in school/One month break seems good to me. One thing I do think needs to be reformed is the curriculum. I think there should be some standardization within it, but I think the available courses should be expanded on greatly. We have potential geniuses in schools who's interest has not been piqued in whatever they'd do best in. Think of all the advancements we'd make if someone people who are great in sciences got to study more in those classes, or a creative student got to focus more on art.

[H N Fiddlebottoms VIII]

In theory, long summer breaks allow students to get summer jobs or work extra hours at their part-time jobs, and so they can have some experience with making money and then wasting it on stupid things. That's how it worked for me from 10th grade through college.
In practice, there simply isn't that much employment, especially in the current economy, and most students are too lazy to work that much anyway.

having large numbers of children in school in hot steamy August isn't necessarily the best learning envrionment.

There is this, too. The local high and middle schools when I was growing up had no air conditioning, being as they were shitty, old buildings that probably dated back to at least WWII. At least once during each spring, school would be canceled because it was too damn hot during the day. If they'd been open during June-August, there would have been a lot more cancellations.

[Sarkhaan]

I think the Three months in school/One month break seems good to me. One thing I do think needs to be reformed is the curriculum. I think there should be some standardization within it, but I think the available courses should be expanded on greatly. We have potential geniuses in schools who's interest has not been piqued in whatever they'd do best in. Think of all the advancements we'd make if someone people who are great in sciences got to study more in those classes, or a creative student got to focus more on art.

Every class costs money. Ideally, yes, there should be more available while being wary of the shopping mall high school syndrome. This is nearly impossible to avoid, as the only way to offer big course selections is to use the benefits of economy of scale.

[Eugene Zolo]

I've been talking and talking with my friends about this issue, mostly because I haven't been able to get on NSG regularly. Now that I am here however I would like to start a discussion about it here; what things do you think need done to reform the education in your nation?


I live in the USA, and I am not a fan of the 3 month summer break students receive every single year in most schools throughout the nation. Students are entitled to about 90 days of summer vacation on top of the 30 or more days (plus weekends) off students receive normally throughout the school year. In theory I don't disagree with giving students plenty of time off, however I think that an entire three month block of time of is far too much; students are then forced to play catch up at school with the first six or more weeks being used as a review of what they had studied the previous year.
My youngest brother whom is 16 years old has already used the "Well I don't remember this stuff anymore." excuse enough to make me want to perpetrate violence upon him. The three month vacation block should be repealed. A seemingly better idea would be a continuous block of classes with weekends off for a set amount of weeks, and then an allotted holiday that would go the entire year around.

This is just one idea, I would like to see that the rest of NSG comes up with.

Since when was it three months? Its two months, July and August.

[Chrobalta]

Firstly, they need to redo the courses. Have two types for each of the core courses

Their needs to be less fun, waste, goofing around, unintelligible nonsense in our school systems.

For example, the school I went to just spent millions of dollars re-doing its parking lot and athletic stadium. Yet, in some classes there is not a book for every student. I am going to be blunt about this as well, this is a rich, white suburban public school that is ranked among some of the highest in the country. I cannot even imagine how poorly some of the less fortunate schools do when I see such wastes in this school.

Athletics need to be taken out of school entirely, it is a waste of money, money that should be spent on education.

Secondly, Teachers unions need to be weakened. While I think it is important that they are protected by unions, it simply cannot be as powerful as it is. Bad teachers who would have been fired, if they worked in any other profession are allowed to keep their jobs because school's are not powerful enough to get rid of them.

Secondly, a lot of crap in the classroom needs to be stopped. Cellphones should not leave lockers, if they are caught in a classroom, they should be confiscated for the rest of the year, no exceptions. The loudmouths and trouble makers need to get more serious punishment, not the slaps on the wrist they currently get. Their distractions to the class endanger the education of others. Children who do not perform to a certain standard should be required to spend another hour after school in the class they are failing at least once a week. I see to many people failing shit just because they don't care or don't try.

Curriculum needs to be brought up to modern standards. Textbooks need to be updated at least every 4 years (with the money saved from waste, I think this should be feasible, though I think textbooks themselves are becoming outdated to computers and perhaps CD's that have information on them).

Finally, emphasis needs to be placed on math and science. - English and Social Studies are nice classes, but they are not going to equip a future workforce with the knowledge required in the same manors as math and science do. And finally, no more "Debate" about evolution in schools. It should be mandatory and unquestioned. - Religion should be kept out of school ENTIRELY. Their should be no debate over that.