What did Israel gain by abandoning Gaza?

[SD_Film Artists]

The disengagement from Gaza in 2005 was supposed to increase security and diplomatic standing. But after all these years it seems as if it has done nothing for Israel other than being a Hamas beachhead.

I mean, it feels like they might as well never have left Gaza considering that Hamas and like parties will never be satisfied untill there is no Israel.

[New Xania]

So give Gaza back to Israel. You'll still have the same fighting but at least it'll be one step closer to the one state solution.

[SD_Film Artists]

Well of course it's too late now unless Israel wants something like the 2008/9 conflict only several times more bloody. Just that there must have been something gained from shooting themselves in the foot. It's like they were nearing a two-state solution only without the 'everlasting peace' part.

[Kobrania]

Isreal has no place in the middle east, it was illegally established by my own country. Sure you want your historic lands, but with that thinking Germany,Italy and Denmark could legally reclaim the British Isles.

I don't hate the people, just the government, it is too aggressive and expansionist.

Edit: clean up.

[Rhodmhire]

Isreal has no place in the middle east, it was illegally established by my own country sure you want your historic lands, but with that thinking saxony,italy and Dnemark could legally reclaim the British Isles.

I don't hate the people, just the government, it is too aggressive and expansionary.

Israel's always been a confusing one for me for some reason, but I can at the end of the day agree that their government can be quite aggressive when it comes to expansion of land.

Also, welcome back, it's been a while since I've seen you post, Kobrania.

[Phenia]

Isreal has no place in the middle east

Yes it does. It is there. Unless you've got a, well, solution for the existence of Israel, there it is and there it will remain. Saying it shouldn't exist is like saying that women shouldn't be capable of childbirth. -useless.

[Kobrania]

Isreal has no place in the middle east, it was illegally established by my own country sure you want your historic lands, but with that thinking saxony,italy and Dnemark could legally reclaim the British Isles.

I don't hate the people, just the government, it is too aggressive and expansionary.

Israel's always been a confusing one for me for some reason, but I can at the end of the day agree that their government can be quite aggressive when it comes to expansion of land.

Also, welcome back, it's been a while since I've seen you post, Kobrania.

I stayed two weeks in Turkey, Dalyan. No internets.

[Rhodmhire]

Isreal has no place in the middle east, it was illegally established by my own country sure you want your historic lands, but with that thinking saxony,italy and Dnemark could legally reclaim the British Isles.

I don't hate the people, just the government, it is too aggressive and expansionary.

Israel's always been a confusing one for me for some reason, but I can at the end of the day agree that their government can be quite aggressive when it comes to expansion of land.

Also, welcome back, it's been a while since I've seen you post, Kobrania.

I stayed two weeks in Turkey, Dalyan. No internets.

Ouch, that had to be painful.

But Turkey doesn't seem like too bad of a place, but I've never been.

[OMGeverynameistaken]

Israel's establishment was no more illegal than Iraq's or Jordan's. Should we just give it all back to the Turks? That'd actually probably be the best option. Back when the Ottoman Empire controlled the area hardly anybody got murdered for reasons of religion (in comparison to Europe, anyway). It wouldn't work today, but hey. It's a nice thought.

As to 'aggressive' and 'expansionary', Israel's aggressive because they're surrounded by states that have historically attempted to wipe them off the map on multiple occasions and who support terrorism within what they see as their borders. If your neighbor was throwing hornet nests into your backyard on a regular basis you'd probably be upset too.

'Expansionary' is rather stupid. They're trying to take over the bits they see as rightfully belonging to them. If they were 'expansionary' they would've kept the Sinai. I don't think Israel has any interest in, say, Syria. Israel isn't trying to 'expand', they're trying to consolidate.

Regardless, Israel will gain nothing from attempting to abide by a two-state solution. Hamas and the like won't rest until there isn't an Israel, and the Israeli's aren't going away any time soon.

The only solution is a one-state solution. Whether that state is called Israel or Palestine doesn't matter much to me.

[Kobrania]

Isreal has no place in the middle east

Yes it does. It is there. Unless you've got a, well, solution for the existence of Israel, there it is and there it will remain. Saying it shouldn't exist is like saying that women shouldn't be capable of childbirth. -useless.

True.

And isreal hasn't abbandoned Gaza, it is still seiging it, there fore intends to take it in the near future, the only way to gain peace is to not provoke the majority by senseless provocative expansion into Arab owned territory.

If Iran and isreal got rid of their idiotic leaders then peace would be only a few consessions away.

[Gelgisith]

You might as well ask why Nazi-Germany abandoned the Warsaw ghetto. Israel didn't abandon Gaza. They're just pretend they did, but in truth they're calling the shots. Gaza tries to raise funds to build a harbor? Israel blocks it. Gaza builds a mosque? Israel bombs it. Gaza builds a school? Israel bombs it.

But you say, the missiles! Nazi-Germany had one advantage: they controlled the entire border of the ghetto. Nothing could get in or out without their knowledge. Israel does not, because of the Egypt-Gaza border.

Truth is, it doesn't matter. What Israel gained by 'abandoning' Gaza is first & foremost this: with the international community's eyes & minds occupied with events in Gaza, and the goodwill it created, Israel got away with further encapsulating East Jerusalem & the West Bank.

[Carlitonia]

I seriously doubt a real solution coming to Israel in the next 20 years.

[Phenia]

You might as well ask why Nazi-Germany abandoned the Warsaw ghetto.

Godwinnnnnn!

[Czardas]

Gaza's a shithole, full of poverty and filth and disease and terrorism and the like. No surprise that nobody's willing to claim it, or even let the inhabitants move out of there for a change.

[Gelgisith]

You might as well ask why Nazi-Germany abandoned the Warsaw ghetto.

Godwinnnnnn!

You lose!

[Robustian]

The disengagement from Gaza in 2005 was supposed to increase security and diplomatic standing. But after all these years it seems as if it has done nothing for Israel other than being a Hamas beachhead.

I mean, it feels like they might as well never have left Gaza considering that Hamas and like parties will never be satisfied untill there is no Israel.

Re: title... Nothing.

[Gravlen]

What did Israel gain by abandoning Gaza? A convenient excuse to use when confronted by the fact that they don't live up to their international obligations and continue to violate human rights.

[Nodinia]

The disengagement from Gaza in 2005 was supposed to increase security and diplomatic standing. But after all these years it seems as if it has done nothing for Israel other than being a Hamas beachhead.

I mean, it feels like they might as well never have left Gaza considering that Hamas and like parties will never be satisfied untill there is no Israel.

Incorrect. It was supposed to free up resources to concentrate on building in the West Bank, give the appearance of concessions while granting none, and wrong foot the palestinians. All three worked.

Also "abandoning" gives the impression they left something that was theirs. It was not then or now Israeli territory.

'Expansionary' is rather stupid. They're trying to take over the bits they see as rightfully belonging to them.

If I used funny sigs, I'd use that. Classic.

[Allanea]

SD Films, it's very simple:

Today's Hamas may still hate Israel, but they have less of an opportunity to strike at us now that we no lnoger have civilians and troops messing about inside their territory. All they can do is fire their silly bottle rockets, and after Cast Lead they've cut down on that a whole lot.

I don't mind them hating me if they can't fuck me up with their bombs.

[Kobrania]

They wouldn't be so angry if some people didn't have their city under seige for years on end.

[Pope Joan]

Israel could have gained some measure of security.

But no, it had to drive out the democratically elected Hamas government and replace it with a puppet.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.inf ... e21647.htm

[Demen]

........nothing?

[Non Aligned States]

'Expansionary' is rather stupid. They're trying to take over the bits they see as rightfully belonging to them. If they were 'expansionary' they would've kept the Sinai. I don't think Israel has any interest in, say, Syria. Israel isn't trying to 'expand', they're trying to consolidate.

Thereby, you defend China's annexation of Tibet as not expansionary yes? And would do the same if they attempted to take Taiwan. They do after all, believe that Tibet and Taiwan rightfully belongs to them.

As to the op, as already covered, Israel gained the opportunity to consolidate and expand their holdings in the West Bank without having to provide security out of proportion to the actual settler amount in Gaza while pretending to agreeableness with their neighbors.

[Tubbsalot]

Israel could have gained some measure of security.

But no, it had to drive out the democratically elected Hamas government and replace it with a puppet.

...Yes, what a shame they replaced the terrorist government? I mean, democratically elected, yes - but I can understand their being a little uneasy, with a terrorist organisation officially in charge right next to them.

[Nodinia]

SD Films, it's very simple:

Today's Hamas may still hate Israel, but they have less of an opportunity to strike at us now that we no lnoger have civilians and troops messing about inside their territory. .

Those cheeky palestinians, resisting their occupation.

The rise of hamas was after the pullout by the way.

All they can do is fire their silly bottle rockets, and after Cast Lead they've cut down on that a whole lot.

Yep, nothing like a massive overreaction to a minor threat to make people feel better.