End The Fed?

[Allbeama]

The reason it is not a bigger issue is that the regular public just doesn't understand the Fed. How it works. And the fact that it is a private, for profit entity. They think it's a branch of the government. Instead, the government is in debt to this private entity to the tune of $5 trillion, or thereabouts. Who's really running the show?

if i ran the zoo.

i would immediately stop the fed from loaning any more money. cancel all debt owed to it by the government. require the repayment to it by all private entities. seize that money and use it to pay the debt we owe to foreign countries if there is all left by that point. use it for other purposes, probably buying up a shitton of gold, silver, etc. and establishing a real currency.

In Bold: the Value of currency does not work that way. Gold is not valuable because it is gold. Gold, like paper bills and metal coins, only has the value humans and human institutions perceive it to have. It is not magically valuable by virtue of simply being gold. We assign it value based on whims and faith, just whims and faith.

[Sibirsky]

The reason it is not a bigger issue is that the regular public just doesn't understand the Fed. How it works. And the fact that it is a private, for profit entity. They think it's a branch of the government. Instead, the government is in debt to this private entity to the tune of $5 trillion, or thereabouts. Who's really running the show?

if i ran the zoo.

i would immediately stop the fed from loaning any more money. cancel all debt owed to it by the government. require the repayment to it by all private entities. seize that money and use it to pay the debt we owe to foreign countries if there is all left by that point. use it for other purposes, probably buying up a shitton of gold, silver, etc. and establishing a real currency.

In Bold: the Value of currency does not work that way. Gold is not valuable because it is gold. Gold, like paper bills and metal coins, only has the value humans and human institutions perceive it to have. It is not magically valuable by virtue of simply being gold. We assign it value based on whims and faith, just whims and faith.

Try supply and demand. Not whims and faith. And try the fact that the government cannot print gold. Then get back to me.

[Mortshnefran]

The reason it is not a bigger issue is that the regular public just doesn't understand the Fed. How it works. And the fact that it is a private, for profit entity. They think it's a branch of the government. Instead, the government is in debt to this private entity to the tune of $5 trillion, or thereabouts. Who's really running the show?

if i ran the zoo.

i would immediately stop the fed from loaning any more money. cancel all debt owed to it by the government. require the repayment to it by all private entities. seize that money and use it to pay the debt we owe to foreign countries if there is all left by that point. use it for other purposes, probably buying up a shitton of gold, silver, etc. and establishing a real currency.

In Bold: the Value of currency does not work that way. Gold is not valuable because it is gold. Gold, like paper bills and metal coins, only has the value humans and human institutions perceive it to have. It is not magically valuable by virtue of simply being gold. We assign it value based on whims and faith, just whims and faith.

in essence yes true. but the reason gold has value to us is it's relative rarity, and it's difficulty to fake(also it's damn useful and shiny). when you base a currency off of it it maintains a stable value, unlike currency created by fiat, which has value only because a government says it does. and when an entity can create more currency essentially in infinite supply it cannot have any real stable value.

[History land]

I`ll let you reasearch it which will prove me right but in a nutshell. The New Deal`s programs caused more debt and goverment controlled hel keep the US in the depression

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Deal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Deal_and_corporatism

First source shows a variety of opinions. Second source shows a sampling of rhetoric. Neither convince me. It did not fix it, but I doubt it actually worsened it.

I caught you big contradiction. you used you wikipeida source to try and debunk my argument but when I use one you say it`s wrong. I find this hard to belive.

[Maduland]

The reason it is not a bigger issue is that the regular public just doesn't understand the Fed. How it works. And the fact that it is a private, for profit entity. They think it's a branch of the government. Instead, the government is in debt to this private entity to the tune of $5 trillion, or thereabouts. Who's really running the show?

if i ran the zoo.

i would immediately stop the fed from loaning any more money. cancel all debt owed to it by the government. require the repayment to it by all private entities. seize that money and use it to pay the debt we owe to foreign countries if there is all left by that point. use it for other purposes, probably buying up a shitton of gold, silver, etc. and establishing a real currency.

In Bold: the Value of currency does not work that way. Gold is not valuable because it is gold. Gold, like paper bills and metal coins, only has the value humans and human institutions perceive it to have. It is not magically valuable by virtue of simply being gold. We assign it value based on whims and faith, just whims and faith.

in essence yes true. but the reason gold has value to us is it's relative rarity, and it's difficulty to fake(also it's damn useful and shiny). when you base a currency off of it it maintains a stable value, unlike currency created by fiat, which has value only because a government says it does. and when an entity can create more currency essentially in infinite supply it cannot have any real stable value.

It is also an industrial metal, used in electronics, in jewelry making, etc. Thus it has value beyond "whims and faith" which is what paper currency's value is based on.

[GetBert]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

[LOL ANARCHY NUBZ]

End it immediately.

[Greed and Death]

Without the gold standard there is no other means to regulate currency production but the Fed.

[Sibirsky]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

Why would there be bank runs? Was there an endless cycle of bank runs until 1913? No?

[LOL ANARCHY NUBZ]

Without the gold standard there is no other means to regulate currency production but the Fed.

Then bring back teh Gold Standard.

[Greed and Death]

Without the gold standard there is no other means to regulate currency production but the Fed.

Then bring back teh Gold Standard.

You can't do that until we stabilize the currency.
The problem is when the currency is stable everyone is suddenly content with the Fed.

[Greed and Death]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

or just move the FDIC to the treasury department.

[History land]

The gold standarded would be better for this nation. Since the value of gold has never dropped to zero.

[History land]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

or just move the FDIC to the treasury department.

The FDIC need to go as well

[Maurepas]

Hmm..We could always re-charter the Bank of the United States...

[CIB EMPIRE]

Ron Paul should have been president

[Maurepas]

Ron Paul should have been president

Can you actually use those words in a sentence that way? Its confusing me,

[EVIL BEYOND COMPARE]

some of you are saying that the new deal was bad, the new deal is what saved america from the great depression.

[Chrobalta]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

or just move the FDIC to the treasury department.

The FDIC need to go as well

Not a chance in HELL would I leave my savings to the mercy of the free market fairy.

The Fed should remain as it is, what we need to do is allow the Fed to do its job and De-politicize it. It is very important that we rework the rest of our regulatory structure and better regulate our markets.

[Maurepas]

some of you are saying that the new deal was bad, the new deal is what saved america from the great depression.

Well, actually, it was World War II...

However, without the spending and building of Infrastructure of the New Deal, we couldnt have handled the massive requirements of World War II, so, there ya go...

[Caninope]

So Ron Paul has a new book out called "End the Fed". i haven't read it yet but i assume that i know what most of his argument will be, but it got me to thinking. Why isn't the Federal reserve more of an issue among many people? As I see it, it is an issue both conservatives and liberal can get behind.

From the conservative side the Fed represents an unregulated tax, because whenever the government takes out a loan it increases the total amount of currency creating inflation. The government is decreasing your relative wealth for it's own agendas.

On the liberal side, this inflation and the actions allowed by the federal reserve system, allow giant banks to make huge profits by essentially loaning out money that does not exist and collecting interest on something that cost them nothing. all at the expense of small banks and the people. The Fed is a private entity, not a government agency

So what are your feeling on this. Should the Fed be disbanded, modified, or left the way it is?

For people from other countries, how do you feel about your central bank? and is it public or private?

Ahem... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System#Independent_within_government

some of you are saying that the new deal was bad, the new deal is what saved america from the great depression.

Use proper grammar, firstly. Second- The New Deal increased government debt thousands of times over, took power away from the individual states by putting it in the power of the federal government, created big government and it's interference in your life (yes they interfere- and over a 100 times a day I'll bet you), and the New Deal warped the powers of what the Federal Government can legally enact.
The reason it is not a bigger issue is that the regular public just doesn't understand the Fed. How it works. And the fact that it is a private, for profit entity. They think it's a branch of the government. Instead, the government is in debt to this private entity to the tune of $5 trillion, or thereabouts. Who's really running the show?

[Chrobalta]

some of you are saying that the new deal was bad, the new deal is what saved america from the great depression.

Well, actually, it was World War II...

However, without the spending and building of Infrastructure of the New Deal, we couldnt have handled the massive requirements of World War II, so, there ya go...

Not to mention many of our bridges and dams of our modern infrastructure would be non existent (Eisenhower did some of that too). While the new deal was not an overwhelming success, the economic regulatory structure that came out of it was, until Reagan began dismantling it in the 80's.

[GetBert]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

Why would there be bank runs? Was there an endless cycle of bank runs until 1913? No?

The panic of 1819 - bank runs
The panic of 1837 - bank failures
The panic of 1857 - loss of confidence in US banks
The panic of 1893 - banking collapse accompanied by a stock market collapse
The panic of 1907 - bank runs

Looks pretty much like a cycle of bank runs before 1913 to me.

Yes there were runs after, but the Federal Reserve did learn how to reduce the number and effect of them.

[Soratsin]

some of you are saying that the new deal was bad, the new deal is what saved america from the great depression.

Well, actually, it was World War II...

However, without the spending and building of Infrastructure of the New Deal, we couldnt have handled the massive requirements of World War II, so, there ya go...

This particular argument makes me laugh. "The massive government spending during the new deal didn't end the great depression, it was the massive goverment spending during world war II!"

[Czardas]

If you got rid of it you would need some institution to carry out some of its functions, otherwise there would be a continuous cycle of bank runs. People would start keeping their money elsewhere and the US economy would suffer.

Why would there be bank runs? Was there an endless cycle of bank runs until 1913? No?

The panic of 1819 - bank runs
The panic of 1837 - bank failures
The panic of 1857 - loss of confidence in US banks
The panic of 1893 - banking collapse accompanied by a stock market collapse
The panic of 1907 - bank runs

Looks pretty much like a cycle of bank runs before 1913 to me.

Yes there were runs after, but the Federal Reserve did learn how to reduce the number and effect of them.

Does correlation imply causation?