Retroactive Rape

[Republic of Tropical Partiers]

This article, outlining the problem with Women on Man forcful sexual assault would like a word with you.

In 1988, the Journal of Sex Research published a study of nearly 1,000 college students. Its most surprising finding was that far more men than women reported having suffered unwanted intercourse -- 62.7 percent to 46.3 percent. A 2001 study of 285 women at a private midwestern university identified 52 as sexually "coercive" - - based on self-reported admissions of verbal manipulations, and insistent, deceptive, or threatening (including physically) behavior. Of those women, 30 reported "becoming so sexually aroused that they felt it was useless to stop even though the partner did not want to have sex."

Couldn't that just be women underestimating the level of coercion they're put through?

Who the fuck are who to define for other people what is coercive or not?

[Condunum]

Couldn't that just be women underestimating the level of coercion they're put through?

"Someone put a gun to my head, and told me to shoot this other guy. So I shot him. Then I took the gun and made the person next to me shoot someone."

Coercion of an individual does not make said individual coerce others to do what they were coerced to do in the first place.

This set what FST said right in my head.

Couldn't that just be women underestimating the level of coercion they're put through?

If the statistics are that large, I highly doubt there is any possibility that is the common case.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Explain.
Edit: You missed the 62% of men forced to have unwilling sex part, didn't you?

No, I just find it hard to believe that women are less coerced into sex.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Who the fuck are who to define for other people what is coercive or not?

Haven't you ever heard of false consciousness?

[Astrolinium]

Explain.
Edit: You missed the 62% of men forced to have unwilling sex part, didn't you?

No, I just find it hard to believe that women are less coerced into sex.

That's sexist.

[Wikkiwallana]

Depends. Could you ordering food from a restaurant just be you underestimating how much the restaurant is coercing you?

Alright, I think I'm just derpy right now. I didn't understand your analogy, or FST. I think I need to sleep longer in nights.

It wasn't exactly an analogy. I couldn't think of a good analogy in a hurry, so I just went with an example of a voluntary action that I hoped wouldn't offend anybody. The point was that I'm only entertaining his ridiculous suggestion of hidden reverse coercion if we are taking it to the extreme that all behavior is potentially a result of coercion one is underestimating.

[Condunum]

Explain.
Edit: You missed the 62% of men forced to have unwilling sex part, didn't you?

No, I just find it hard to believe that women are less coerced into sex.

Obviously you haven't listened to most women on this site, then. You're arguing a point most women disagree with.

[Condunum]

Who the fuck are who to define for other people what is coercive or not?

Haven't you ever heard of false consciousness?

I have. It's much, much less prevalent that you seem to believe.

[Condunum]

Alright, I think I'm just derpy right now. I didn't understand your analogy, or FST. I think I need to sleep longer in nights.

It wasn't exactly an analogy. I couldn't think of a good analogy in a hurry, so I just went with an example of a voluntary action that I hoped wouldn't offend anybody. The point was that I'm only entertaining his ridiculous suggestion of hidden reverse coercion if we are taking it to the extreme that all behavior is potentially a result of coercion one is underestimating.

Oh. Gotcha.

[Four-sided Triangles]

That's sexist.

Or it's just recognition of the patriarchy. In a patriarchal society, one would expect that women are more coerced.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

Couldn't that just be women underestimating the level of coercion they're put through?

Who the fuck are who to define for other people what is coercive or not?

Because sometimes people are unaware of their personal rights. Such as a woman who might say, "It can't be rape because he's my husband."

[Yes Im Biop]

Explain.
Edit: You missed the 62% of men forced to have unwilling sex part, didn't you?

No, I just find it hard to believe that women are less coerced into sex.

Yeahh,... ... ... I smell Sexism.

[Wikkiwallana]

That's sexist.

Or it's just recognition of the patriarchy. In a patriarchal society, one would expect that women are more coerced.

Men coerce other men to conform. "Only a gay guy would turn down sex with any girl who wasn't totally hideous."

[Jerusalem and Damascus]

That's sexist.

Or it's just recognition of the patriarchy. In a patriarchal society, one would expect that women are more coerced.

We're not pure patriarchy, though. Women do have definite power in a lot of social situations that is on par with that of men.

[Condunum]

Who the fuck are who to define for other people what is coercive or not?

Because sometimes people are unaware of their personal rights. Such as a woman who might say, "It can't be rape because he's my husband."

Maybe you missed what this is arguing? I put up an article describing the prevalence of Woman on Man rape. I'm not sure how this has to do with that.

That's sexist.

Or it's just recognition of the patriarchy. In a patriarchal society, one would expect that women are more coerced.

Honestly, what says that it is that bad? You're arguing that our society has reach a point of coercion that is, quite frankly, impossible to return from.

[Republic of Tropical Partiers]

Who the fuck are who to define for other people what is coercive or not?

Because sometimes people are unaware of their personal rights. Such as a woman who might say, "It can't be rape because he's my husband."

Won't that mean if she/he holds such a view that she/he is in her/he own mind, consenting to the sex act because she/he denies that unconsenal sex between her and her partner can exist, thus removing rape as a possibility?

[Jerusalem and Damascus]

Because sometimes people are unaware of their personal rights. Such as a woman who might say, "It can't be rape because he's my husband."

Won't that mean if she/he holds such a view that she/he is in her/he own mind, consenting to the sex act because she/he denies that unconsenal sex between her and her partner can exist, thus removing rape as a possibility?

It's still a psychologically destructive act that's done more against her will, despite rationalization. When she does, it's just stockholm syndrome.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Men coerce other men to conform. "Only a gay guy would turn down sex with any girl who wasn't totally hideous."

Sure, but:

1. That's still patriarchy.

2. One would expect that this effect would not be as prevalent as the coercion women are put through, at least one would expect that in a patriarchal society.

[Jerusalem and Damascus]

Men coerce other men to conform. "Only a gay guy would turn down sex with any girl who wasn't totally hideous."

Sure, but:

1. That's still patriarchy.

2. One would expect that this effect would not be as prevalent as the coercion women are put through, at least one would expect that in a patriarchal society.

You know, you're using partriarchy far too much and it's really far too biased a word to be using it the way you're using it. Society's norms came from both men and women and we're equally to blame for them. Women were oppressed but not as much that their influence has not affected the way our society functions throughout history.

[Grainne Ni Malley]

Because sometimes people are unaware of their personal rights. Such as a woman who might say, "It can't be rape because he's my husband."

Maybe you missed what this is arguing? I put up an article describing the prevalence of Woman on Man rape. I'm not sure how this has to do with that.

I was addressing Trop's question about why others might define coercion for someone with a random example, not addressing the prevalence of Woman on Man rape.

[Republic of Tropical Partiers]

Won't that mean if she/he holds such a view that she/he is in her/he own mind, consenting to the sex act because she/he denies that unconsenal sex between her and her partner can exist, thus removing rape as a possibility?

It's still a psychologically destructive act that's done more against her will, despite rationalization. When she does, it's just stockholm syndrome.

And you can tell this how? The slippery slope of this is that if you can tell people that you were raped without having the said individual saying that I was raped then you end up taking away a bit of respect of people's individual autonomy and may lead to banning of certain sexual practices.

[Wikkiwallana]

Men coerce other men to conform. "Only a gay guy would turn down sex with any girl who wasn't totally hideous."

Sure, but:

1. That's still patriarchy.

Yes, I'm fully aware.

2. One would expect that this effect would not be as prevalent as the coercion women are put through, at least one would expect that in a patriarchal society.

That, however, does not follow. It is a possible, but not necessary, consequence.

[Jerusalem and Damascus]

It's still a psychologically destructive act that's done more against her will, despite rationalization. When she does, it's just stockholm syndrome.

And you can tell this how? The slippery slope of this is that if you can tell people that you were raped without having the said individual saying that I was raped then you end up taking away a bit of respect of people's individual autonomy and may lead to banning of certain sexual practices.

If he forces himself upon her, it's rape. What matters is how she felt at that moment.

[DaWoad]

This article, outlining the problem with Women on Man forcful sexual assault would like a word with you.

In 1988, the Journal of Sex Research published a study of nearly 1,000 college students. Its most surprising finding was that far more men than women reported having suffered unwanted intercourse -- 62.7 percent to 46.3 percent. A 2001 study of 285 women at a private midwestern university identified 52 as sexually "coercive" - - based on self-reported admissions of verbal manipulations, and insistent, deceptive, or threatening (including physically) behavior. Of those women, 30 reported "becoming so sexually aroused that they felt it was useless to stop even though the partner did not want to have sex."

Couldn't that just be women underestimating the level of coercion they're put through?

it certainly could be. It's one of the many issues involved in self-reported studies. Nor is 1000 a particularily large sample given the population size. That said, it does give some support and certainly provides evidence that it would be worth looking into.

[Republic of Tropical Partiers]

And you can tell this how? The slippery slope of this is that if you can tell people that you were raped without having the said individual saying that I was raped then you end up taking away a bit of respect of people's individual autonomy and may lead to banning of certain sexual practices.

If he forces himself upon her, it's rape. What matters is how she felt at that moment.

Then again, there is no way we can certainly know that unless we were there when it happens and the consequences of trying to know for certain can be worse than the anomaly, hence why it's best to trust the individual.