Retroactive Rape

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

This would essentially be a reversal of the burden of proof.

ahahahahahahahahahahaha no.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Gathering evidence to try to ascertain the truth or falsehood of an allegation that is perhaps the worst that can be made against a person. Yeah - totally uneccesary and inappropriate. Definately.

"What were you wearing?" and questions about your sexual history are not "gathering evidence."

[1000 Cats]

Another thing to note is that the main reason so many people get away with rape is because their victims simply don't report it. It's not a matter of the justice system being too soft, it's a matter of the justice system not getting involved at all.

Often because women that bring it forward half to put up with a lot of unnecessary and inappropriate questions that have no relevance to whether or not they were raped.

Questions in general, even the ones that are necessary and relevant, are very stressful in this situation. That's part of it, along with the general fear and confusion. Often the rapist is also someone that they knew, maybe even their partner, so that certainly plays a part as well. A lot of rape victims report feeling like it was their fault. It does a number on one's psyche.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Questions in general, even the ones that are necessary and relevant, are very stressful in this situation. That's part of it, along with the general fear and confusion. Often the rapist is also someone that they knew, maybe even their partner, so that certainly plays a part as well. A lot of rape victims report feeling like it was their fault. It does a number on one's psyche.

Are there ways to alleviate this stress?

[Keralam]

Questions in general, even the ones that are necessary and relevant, are very stressful in this situation. That's part of it, along with the general fear and confusion. Often the rapist is also someone that they knew, maybe even their partner, so that certainly plays a part as well. A lot of rape victims report feeling like it was their fault. It does a number on one's psyche.

Are there ways to alleviate this stress?

I think several of us talked about how the only real way to improve the situation is through changing the surrounding culture, and suggested several concrete ways to do that.

[1000 Cats]

Questions in general, even the ones that are necessary and relevant, are very stressful in this situation. That's part of it, along with the general fear and confusion. Often the rapist is also someone that they knew, maybe even their partner, so that certainly plays a part as well. A lot of rape victims report feeling like it was their fault. It does a number on one's psyche.

Are there ways to alleviate this stress?

Therapy, which is avoided for similar reasons, along with the general unwillingness of people to go to therapy. And unfortunately, I don't think there's any easy way of preventing it from happening in the first place. They'll say things like, "I was too scared to fight back; does that mean to him that it was OK?" or, "I was drunk; maybe I actually did say yes." I think it really just comes down to education on both sides: teach young men to value women more highly, first of all. We are getting pretty good at that, but obviously there is still work to do. Secondly, teach women how to defend themselves, and how to counteract the aforementioned thoughts and feelings beforehand by drilling into them, the same way we have it drilled into us that safe sex is a good thing and all races are equal, that this is the sort of thinking that happens when someone is raped and that it is absolutely always incorrect. Unfortunately, I don't know of a Life Management course in grade school that talks about rape.

[Jinos]

the whole notion of constant false rape accusations as revenge from bitter women is pretty much a myth.

Wrong. A low of about 20% and a high of about 40% of all reported "rapes" are false reports.

The real "myth" is that stupid 2% bullshit statistic feminists toss around.

To be fair, last I knew, law enforcement thinks about half of all real rapes go unreported each year.

When I read through this thread, I laugh whenever FST says "misogyny" when this whole idea is extremely misandrist.

QFT.

[Wikipedia and Universe]

I'm not even going to get into all the reasons that this is a terrible idea. I'll just touch on couple of major ones. For one, it flies in the face of presumption of innocence, one of the cornerstones of modern liberal democratic justice systems. For two, it also spits in the face of equal protection, since although female-on-male rape is comparatively a fair bit less common, it does in fact occur more often than you think (don't forget cases that go unreported due to fear of the double standard). Speaking of double standards, this is an utterly disgusting one. For three (or for 2.5, as this does somewhat tie in with the equal protection/double standard bit), this is just reinforcing the idiotic sexual scripts that The Congregationists (I wonder if he's found this little gem yet) was talking about a while back. It particularly reinforces the female script, the Old Aeon idea that women are some sort of hyper-resistant, chaste creatures who inherently do not desire sex with men, while men are these sort of boorish, sexually overcharged monsters. Of course, I used a bit of hyperbole in describing these "scripts"; rarely does one see these extreme manifestations in practice. However, varying watered-down forms of these ideas tend to creep their way into social situations more often than I can count. The general notion here is of a hypersexual male script and a hyposexual female script, with a general subconscious idea of men wanting sex by default and women being turned off to sex by default. Looking at all the factors involved, these are not really biological tendencies as much as very heavily-ingrained social notions, which, in contrast to the first hyperbolic examples I gave (or the OP post of this thread itself), are usually more subtle. These can be effectively combated, but it will be an uphill battle. However, pretty much every existing example of major social progress was also an uphill battle.

That said, I believe that, quite frankly, the OP of this thread seems to be aligned in opposition to that progress. I am amused at how he aggressively demands people to put forth rational arguments against his highly irrational position. In other words, he seems to want to waste people's time. I, however, do not view this as a waste of my time, as I made my case and drove my points for not just the OP, but for all to see, and I did so under will. While we're at it, once I post this, I think I'm gonna curse the OP.

Wrong. A low of about 20% and a high of about 40% of all reported "rapes" are false reports.

The real "myth" is that stupid 2% bullshit statistic feminists toss around.

To be fair, last I knew, law enforcement thinks about half of all real rapes go unreported each year.

To be honest, I have a hard time calling the people driving this agenda "feminists", more like giant splinter movement resulting from runaway agenda creep within the greater feminist movement.

Another thing that annoys me is that these so-called feminists love to portray any mention of false rape accusations as some sort of male whining. However, the two points you made about the 20-40% statistic and the law enforcement statistic about half of all real rapes going unreported each year (I'll trust your assertion for now; I'll check out sources tomorrow) highlight that false rape accusations not only hurt the accused, but are also harmful to actual rape victims.

[Risottia]

Under this system, all accusations of rape would automatically be considered correct. Every woman who says she was raped was, by definition, raped.

Cannot be made legal because of the gender discrimination.
Plus the idea that an allegation is automatically right because it comes from an element of a given group is simply illogical and entirely authoritarian.

Proponents of the system say that it would definitely cut down of the amount of rapes out there. They also allege that it would not be abused, or if it were abused, the abuse would be so absolutely minor as to be negligible.

They allege a lot.

Of course, the potential can be completely avoided if a man simply elects to never have sex.

No. Because even YOU could be charged with rape, and you'd be the one who has to prove you NEVER had sex. Which you can't.

[Wikkiwallana]

the whole notion of constant false rape accusations as revenge from bitter women is pretty much a myth.

Wrong. A low of about 20% and a high of about 40% of all reported "rapes" are false reports.

Source?

[Forster Keys]

If we weren't dealing with humans here, it might work.

[The Steel Magnolia]

What can I say? "Feminists" can be stupid fucks just as much as raging biblical conservatives, and I'm saying that as a feminist, but fucking seriously? Way to poison the goddamned label.

[Forster Keys]

What can I say? "Feminists" can be stupid fucks just as much as raging biblical conservatives, and I'm saying that as a feminist, but fucking seriously? Way to poison the goddamned label.

Too right. I am so tempted to leave comment on that blog he linked to. It's horrid.

[Meowfoundland]

FST, let's say I accuse you of stealing my beautiful (and expensive) painting, and disposing of it in a way that it's impossible to tell where it went. You were at home during the time when I say it was stolen, but you can't prove it. Would you approve of being found automatically guilty?

[The Steel Magnolia]

FST, let's say I accuse you of stealing my beautiful (and expensive) painting, and disposing of it in a way that it's impossible to tell where it went. You were at home during the time when I say it was stolen, but you can't prove it. Would you approve of being found automatically guilty?

While I object to the almost certain unintentional comparison of women to objects or rape to theft, the point remains. The presumption of innocence is fundamental to our justice system, and I see no reason whatsoever to change that.

[Forster Keys]

FST, let's say I accuse you of stealing my beautiful (and expensive) painting, and disposing of it in a way that it's impossible to tell where it went. You were at home during the time when I say it was stolen, but you can't prove it. Would you approve of being found automatically guilty?

Why do you hate art?!

[Meowfoundland]

FST, let's say I accuse you of stealing my beautiful (and expensive) painting, and disposing of it in a way that it's impossible to tell where it went. You were at home during the time when I say it was stolen, but you can't prove it. Would you approve of being found automatically guilty?

Why do you hate art?!

No! My security system was bust! It's not my faaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllltttttttttttttttttttttt

[Erinkita]

This is one of the more repugnant things I've seen linked here. Does anyone else feel like they need to take a shower after reading the linked article?

[Forster Keys]

Why do you hate art?!

No! My security system was bust! It's not my faaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllltttttttttttttttttttttt

That's enough proof for me! Let's not worry about a trial! Straight to the feminist salt mines of Klatch! That'll teach you! Art snatching woman hater!

[Hjornis]

"Yes I know she drank all the drinks you bought to her during dinner, and I understand you did share a taxi back to her place, and when you arrived she have confesed that she poured you a glass of wine and that she did left for the toilet and came back with her cloths off, I am also sertant that she did kiss you first. But she claims that inside her mind she was thinking "no" the whole time and when she woke up the next morning she claims that the words "Yes I want to have sex with you, right her in my bed wich I invited you into" one single time. So I see no other outcome then to convict you for rape

[Meowfoundland]

No! My security system was bust! It's not my faaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuuullllllllllllltttttttttttttttttttttt

That's enough proof for me! Let's not worry about a trial! Straight to the feminist salt mines of Klatch! That'll teach you! Art snatching woman hater!

No! I can change!

I even painted a picture! Of a woman! Don't make me go back there ;_;

[Forster Keys]

That's enough proof for me! Let's not worry about a trial! Straight to the feminist salt mines of Klatch! That'll teach you! Art snatching woman hater!

No! I can change!

I even painted a picture! Of a woman! Don't make me go back there ;_;

Objectification! You men are all the same! Better make that 30 years!

[Aurorum Veritas]

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/16/the-new-page-of-consent/
I'm actually not sure myself. It would certainly lower the amount of rape out there, and the whole notion of constant false rape accusations as revenge from bitter women is pretty much a myth. On the other hand, the potential for abuse does exist. Of course, the potential can be completely avoided if a man simply elects to never have sex. I'm ambivalent here.

So men then have to live in fear of this abuse, and as a result of this fear are essentially scared away from having sex? That's a bit much to ask, and rides far too much on having enough faith in women to trust that it won't be abused. And no faith in men? The likelihood of abuse may be negligible, but the potential for it is far too great. There are PLENTY of bitter women out there.

Overall, a logically sound idea, but far too dependent on human nature (which nothing should be too dependent on).

EDIT: Sorry, Erinkita. Was still half asleep.

[Erinkita]

http://blog.iblamethepatriarchy.com/2007/05/16/the-new-page-of-consent/
I'm actually not sure myself. It would certainly lower the amount of rape out there, and the whole notion of constant false rape accusations as revenge from bitter women is pretty much a myth. On the other hand, the potential for abuse does exist. Of course, the potential can be completely avoided if a man simply elects to never have sex. I'm ambivalent here.

So men then have to live in fear of this abuse, and as a result of this fear are essentially scared away from having sex? That's a bit much to ask, and rides far too much on having enough faith in women to trust that it won't be abused. And no faith in men? The likelihood of abuse may be negligible, but the potential for it is far too great. There are PLENTY of bitter women out there.

Overall, a logically sound idea, but far too dependent on human nature (which nothing should be too dependent on).

Avoiding sex won't protect anyone from the abuse of this power. Under this sytem, anyone can be accused of rape and assumed guilty whether they're sexually active or not. How would you go about proving that you don't have sex?

[Thyval]

did you know if you feed a troll you only make him more powerful

fun fact