Retroactive Rape

[Kaeshar]

If its surprisingly constant over cultures, then maybe it has a major genetic component?

Twin studies put it at about 50%. That has to be taken with a grain of salt, but still, yes, quite high.

Obviously environment and life experiences would have an effect. Did they see if there was any correlation with the way they were brought up as children? Although the large numbers and variety over cultures might negate that.

[1000 Cats]

If it helps, 1% of the population is psychopathic. Robert Hare identified this ages ago and it's stayed surprisingly constant, both over time, over different schedules, and different cultures. It's not something we can iron out of society, unfortunately.

Thanks-that seems about right to me. I guess it also matters whether FST meant psychopathic in a clinical sense, or in a more popular sense, which could include portions of the ASPD population.

All psychopaths (as defined by Hare's inventory) have ASPD as well, and all people with ASPD must have met criteria for conduct disorder (as defined by the DSM IV-TR). It's a neat little line showing how horrible a person you are.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Well that's just character assassination, it's not hatred of women.

But why is it effective? Why would those things act as character assassination if society weren't misogynistic?

[The Grand World Order]

I'm sorry, but "She was dressed in skimpy clothing and was therefore asking for it." and "She's slutty and has a lot of promiscuous sex so obviously she wanted it and it wasn't rape." are very common and very wrong responses to accusations of rape. These responses reflect a degrading view of female sexuality which is very ingrained in our culture.

And "He has a penis but no alibi so he must've raped her" isn't just as bad, if not worse?

[1000 Cats]

Twin studies put it at about 50%. That has to be taken with a grain of salt, but still, yes, quite high.

Obviously environment and life experiences would have an effect. Did they see if there was any correlation with the way they were brought up as children? Although the large numbers and variety over cultures might negate that.

Yes. Many of them had abusive or neglectful parenting, and there is a strong correlation between poverty and disorders on the antisocial "stream".

[Peddieville]

Thanks-that seems about right to me. I guess it also matters whether FST meant psychopathic in a clinical sense, or in a more popular sense, which could include portions of the ASPD population.

All psychopaths (as defined by Hare's inventory) have ASPD as well, and all people with ASPD must have met criteria for conduct disorder (as defined by the DSM IV-TR). It's a neat little line showing how horrible a person you are.

Hehe. And to clarify, I meant portions of the ASPD population outside of psychopaths.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Those must be some pretty significant counter-factors.

Increases in the standard of living are one of the strongest (if not THE strongest) deterrents to crime.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Fair point, although the differences between the two are a bit hazy, by the article's own admission. Best statistic I could find in my perusal of the psychopathy article is that (under one definition) 11-13% of the US prison population are psychopaths. I'm not really willing to extrapolate on that, but it pegs the lower bound at .1%, unless I'm missing something.
EDIT: Re-Reading the article, it's 11-25% for males, which makes the statistic even more difficult.

If it helps, 1% of the population is psychopathic. Robert Hare identified this ages ago and it's stayed surprisingly constant, both over time, over different schedules, and different cultures. It's not something we can iron out of society, unfortunately.

I'd like the see citation. ...but not now; it's late here. If you get a chance, could you TG me a citation for one of his papers? Thanks in advance. (I'm not sure if I believe the claim, but I'm in no mental shape now to do serious critical reading of published research.)

[Wikkiwallana]

Twin studies put it at about 50%. That has to be taken with a grain of salt, but still, yes, quite high.

Obviously environment and life experiences would have an effect. Did they see if there was any correlation with the way they were brought up as children? Although the large numbers and variety over cultures might negate that.

And environmental factors start in the womb. There's evidence that schizophrenia causing genes might be activated by the mother getting certain illnesses at a specific period of pregnancy, I don't see why psychopathy couldn't be similar.

[Four-sided Triangles]

And "He's a man without an alibi so he must've raped her" isn't just as bad, if not worse?

In a total vacuum? Yes. In society with its present conditions? No.

[1000 Cats]

OK. These have all increased if not been introduced within the last forty years. Rape prevalence has decreased. What is your explanation?

Also, I am glad to hear that you are no longer entirely anti-sex.

That other counter-factors have also changed over the same time period.

Like? I am suggesting here that our willingness to portray rape as something that is (A) needlessly violent, or (B) such an unthinkable action that one can joke about it and make references to it in the same way we joke about tossing dead babies out of airplanes has actually acted to decrease the prevalence of rape.

[Awesome Possum Land]

This is dumb. As a woman, I know women can be bitches and would lie about being raped.

[The Grand World Order]

In a total vacuum? Yes. In society with its present conditions? No.

And that, right there, is extremely misandristic, which is heavily ingrained in your subculture, which is feminism, which you seek to spread, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to convince us that you're right. Therefore you're as bigoted as a jury who believes a man is more likely to be guilty based on the color of his skin.

And that, is called hypocrisy. QED.

[1000 Cats]

If it helps, 1% of the population is psychopathic. Robert Hare identified this ages ago and it's stayed surprisingly constant, both over time, over different schedules, and different cultures. It's not something we can iron out of society, unfortunately.

I'd like the see citation. ...but not now; it's late here. If you get a chance, could you TG me a citation for one of his papers? Thanks in advance. (I'm not sure if I believe the claim, but I'm in no mental shape now to do serious critical reading of published research.)

The book is called The Mask of Sanity. It's old, but it's still worth considering.

All psychopaths (as defined by Hare's inventory) have ASPD as well, and all people with ASPD must have met criteria for conduct disorder (as defined by the DSM IV-TR). It's a neat little line showing how horrible a person you are.

Hehe. And to clarify, I meant portions of the ASPD population outside of psychopaths.

Ah, OK. Got you.

[Caninope]

But I just got Mass Effect 2!

My manliness demanded I wait until it was the cheapest it shall be- when the sequel came out!

You're saving money on Mass Effect? Whatcha saving it for, flowers or something? I'll take that manliness card now!

No, I'm saving it for steak. Gots to have me the good meat.

[Fersceau]

Sounds like old southern rape charges. A black man acused of a rape was not "guilty till proven innocent"; he was GUILTY.period

[Eden-Osiris]

1. Bringing up a woman's sexual history as if it's relevant to whether or not she was raped is a very common and highly misogynistic tactic used to dismiss all rape victims who aren't pretty little virgin white girls.

- Bringing up (anyones) (topical) history is ENTIRELY relevant when establishing the character of a person. If a (man) (stole lots of things) then if he was accused of (stealing things), this would hurt him greatly. If a (man) (lied repeatedly) then if he got up on the stand, his reputation and testimony would easily be weakened. Do know that if a woman has a histroy of consenting to sex with lots of people, she can also point out that she has a history of NOT accusing people of rape. It is not the mention of a person's sexual history, but the ASSUMPTION THAT A SEXUAL HISTORY IS BAD that is the misogynist attitude. That being YOURS.

2. Fair enough. You shouldn't have sex in the middle of school.

- Unless you are two consenting adults who have found a private place and clean up afterwards. Then you should damn well go for it. Sex is not something to be ashamed of, nor is it bad.

[Four-sided Triangles]

Sounds like old southern rape charges. A black man acused of a rape was not "guilty till proven innocent"; he was GUILTY.period

Fair enough. I didn't consider this issue of intersectionality.

[Tlaceceyaya]

And "He's a man without an alibi so he must've raped her" isn't just as bad, if not worse?

In a total vacuum? Yes. In society with its present conditions? No.

You seriously believe that allowing women to send men to prison for whatever reason is just?
What if the two have a fight after sex or before it, and the woman decides that since the man doesn't have an alibi, she'll have him sent to prison for several years? When she calms down, she'll get in a LOT of trouble if she comes forward, so she'll probably not do anything. The innocent man who had a fight with his partner after consensual sex or before they were planning to have sex is now stuck in prison for several years and once he's out, his life will be ruined.

[Four-sided Triangles]

So what are your proposals to lower rape in society. NSG?

[Four-sided Triangles]

You seriously believe that allowing women to send men to prison for whatever reason is just?
What if the two have a fight after sex or before it, and the woman decides that since the man doesn't have an alibi, she'll have him sent to prison for several years? When she calms down, she'll get in a LOT of trouble if she comes forward, so she'll probably not do anything. The innocent man who had a fight with his partner after consensual sex or before they were planning to have sex is now stuck in prison for several years and once he's out, his life will be ruined.

It's more utilitarian than just.

[Tlaceceyaya]

So what are your proposals to lower rape in society. NSG?

Education, encouraging women to come out about what happened to them, etc.
Definitely not allowing women to have the lives of men they dislike ruined.

[Fersceau]

Sounds like old southern rape charges. A black man acused of a rape was not "guilty till proven innocent"; he was GUILTY.period

Fair enough. I didn't consider this issue of intersectionality.

Not accusing it of well valed racism, but it certainly is not a good proposal.

[Northwest Slobovia]

I'd like the see citation. ...but not now; it's late here. If you get a chance, could you TG me a citation for one of his papers? Thanks in advance. (I'm not sure if I believe the claim, but I'm in no mental shape now to do serious critical reading of published research.)

The book is called The Mask of Sanity. It's old, but it's still worth considering

Many thanks! I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to read a whole book, but I'll throw it on the pile.

[Miyager]

No. Why on Earth would I acknowledge any sort of legitimacy of such an intellectually bankrupt idea with an argument? Mockery is all it deserves, and shock.

I think it's our moral duty to bend over backwards in order to help people who have been historically oppressed. If this means a few innocent men go to prison in order to greatly reduce rape, doesn't the end justify the means?

Please tell me you're joking. Please.