A Criminally Insane Man Goes to The Fair....

[Demen]

Well, even lunatics enjoy fresh air.

And the tea-cup ride. Don't forget the tea-cup ride.

I love that ride!!

[Gauthier]

So where was this guy being held at, Arkham? Would explain how they lost track of him.

[Tagmatium]

So where was this guy being held at, Arkham? Would explain how they lost track of him.

Yeah, you'd think they'd keep better tabs on the dangerous crazies.

[Wilgrove]

So where was this guy being held at, Arkham? Would explain how they lost track of him.

Yeah, you'd think they'd keep better tabs on the dangerous crazies.

Yea, but if they did, then Batman would be out of a job.

[Tagmatium]

Yea, but if they did, then Batman would be out of a job.

Maybe it's part of a massive conspiracy to keep him in a job.

[Poliwanacraca]

Could people possibly refrain from referring to the mentally ill as "nutters," "loonies," and so forth? It's incredibly offensive.

As for this story, I see no reason why the fair needed to be notified that patients would be attending. Yes, mental illness can sometimes cause someone to be a danger to others. Standing next to an epileptic when they have a seizure could probably be dangerous, too, but we would quite rightly be disgusted if a public event refused admittance to epileptics, let alone epileptics under direct medical supervision.

Now, obviously this particular patient wasn't adequately supervised, seeing as he was able to wander off without anyone knowing, and I'm sure whoever was supposed to be preventing that is going to get in some serious trouble over it.

Granted, but in this particular and isolated case, we are not talking about just anyone with mental illness. We are talking about a person who had a history of violence up to and including murder associated with his schizophrenia AND a history of escaping from this hospital's care.

If they want to experiment with resocializing him to see how treatment of his schizophrenia is progressing, that's one thing. NOT notifying the police that they were bringing him on the trip so that they could be prepared in case he did escape again was incredibly and irresponsibly stupid on the part of the hospital, in my opinion.

This was not just any patient. Surely it should be possible to discuss the advisability of treating the criminally insane in this manner, without demonizing all people with mental illness.

And yes, tossing off words like "nutter" and "loon" don't help when the topic is serious.

Oh, I agree they should have notified the police, and that this particular patient may not have been an ideal choice to bring along (although we're going off of severely limited information here). I just see no reason why they needed to get approval from the fair to bring patients to the fair.

[Poliwanacraca]

Could people possibly refrain from referring to the mentally ill as "nutters," "loonies," and so forth? It's incredibly offensive.

Where in this thread were such terms used to refer to the mentally ill.

Dude, the thread isn't even a page and a half long. Surely you do not need me to link you to a post in plain sight.

[Katganistan]

Whomever thought this field trip was a good idea was crazy.

[Pevisopolis]

Whomever thought this field trip was a good idea was crazy.

You mean the crazy man?

[JuNii]

Sounds like the plot to a weak horror film, really.

or a comedy...

[Tech-gnosis]

Dude, the thread isn't even a page and a half long. Surely you do not need me to link you to a post in plain sight.

Well I skimmed the thread a couple times and didn't see it, though now I see I missed Yootopia's tasteless use of the word nutter.

[Flibbleites]

I think the people who planned that trip are lucky they didn't have more escapees, they they took 31 patients to the fair and only 11 staff.

[Katganistan]

I think the people who planned that trip are lucky they didn't have more escapees, they they took 31 patients to the fair and only 11 staff.

Ok, that's criminally stupid.

[Gleinster]

OK, I get that this guy was crazy, but if you do hear voices why is it that you have to automatically obey them? The Son of Sam did this as well.

We all get urges to do things or hear our own voice telling us what to do from time to time,

e.g. when an elderly person is walking slowly down a large flight of stairs and isn't leaving room for you to get past you hear a voice saying "just push her, it's ok", or if you're with your partner you hear "call out her mothers name and see what happens"

But of course we dont do that, at least I dont.

Call me unreasonably sane but if I heard disembodied voices telling me something, I'd question where they came by this information, I certainly would if it was a dog.

Even if it was his own voice in his head telling him that she was a witch, how far would you trust yourself? If someone moves my keys from where I've left them and then denies that they did I begin to doubt that I left the keys there at all.

And even if I had indisputable proof that she was a witch, corroborated by several reputable people I wouldn't kill her, why kill her? It's not your job.

I'd sincerely like to know what makes this Phillip Paul guy tick.

[Muravyets]

Could people possibly refrain from referring to the mentally ill as "nutters," "loonies," and so forth? It's incredibly offensive.

As for this story, I see no reason why the fair needed to be notified that patients would be attending. Yes, mental illness can sometimes cause someone to be a danger to others. Standing next to an epileptic when they have a seizure could probably be dangerous, too, but we would quite rightly be disgusted if a public event refused admittance to epileptics, let alone epileptics under direct medical supervision.

Now, obviously this particular patient wasn't adequately supervised, seeing as he was able to wander off without anyone knowing, and I'm sure whoever was supposed to be preventing that is going to get in some serious trouble over it.

Granted, but in this particular and isolated case, we are not talking about just anyone with mental illness. We are talking about a person who had a history of violence up to and including murder associated with his schizophrenia AND a history of escaping from this hospital's care.

If they want to experiment with resocializing him to see how treatment of his schizophrenia is progressing, that's one thing. NOT notifying the police that they were bringing him on the trip so that they could be prepared in case he did escape again was incredibly and irresponsibly stupid on the part of the hospital, in my opinion.

This was not just any patient. Surely it should be possible to discuss the advisability of treating the criminally insane in this manner, without demonizing all people with mental illness.

And yes, tossing off words like "nutter" and "loon" don't help when the topic is serious.

Oh, I agree they should have notified the police, and that this particular patient may not have been an ideal choice to bring along (although we're going off of severely limited information here). I just see no reason why they needed to get approval from the fair to bring patients to the fair.

I agree with that.

[Muravyets]

OK, I get that this guy was crazy, but if you do hear voices why is it that you have to automatically obey them? The Son of Sam did this as well.

We all get urges to do things or hear our own voice telling us what to do from time to time,

e.g. when an elderly person is walking slowly down a large flight of stairs and isn't leaving room for you to get past you hear a voice saying "just push her, it's ok", or if you're with your partner you hear "call out her mothers name and see what happens"

But of course we dont do that, at least I dont.

Call me unreasonably sane but if I heard disembodied voices telling me something, I'd question where they came by this information, I certainly would if it was a dog.

Even if it was his own voice in his head telling him that she was a witch, how far would you trust yourself? If someone moves my keys from where I've left them and then denies that they did I begin to doubt that I left the keys there at all.

And even if I had indisputable proof that she was a witch, corroborated by several reputable people I wouldn't kill her, why kill her? It's not your job.

I'd sincerely like to know what makes this Phillip Paul guy tick.

Yeah, uh, it's called a mental illness. He apparently actually CAN'T not obey the voices.

[Niicha]

Sounds like the plot to a weak horror film, really.

or a comedy...

I was just thinking the same thing.

This reminds me of another case (Which may be totally fabricated and in the realm of urban legend, but still, it's a fun story) where upon a minimum security prison decided "Hey, let's reward some of our prisoners who have demonstrated good behavior with a trip to the mall so they can buy Christmas presents!" Okay, not a fantastic idea, but if they had prison guards escorting them and if they at least had something like tracking bracelets on and some sort of clothing to indicate them as prisoners, nothing serious would have happened. They're minimum security anyway!

Oh? No tracking bracelets or other indicators that they were criminals? Okay guys, this is a really bad idea. Thank god you have those guards watching them.

...No guards?

Yes, prison officials thought it'd be fine to bus the convicts to the mall, hand them some cash to go shopping with and tell them "Alright guys, meet us back at entrance 3A at 5:00 o'clock! Promise! Pinky swear!" Needless to say a manhunt for escaped prisoners took place.
Not exactly dangerous since these convicts were most likely white collar criminals, but supremely stupid.

[Gleinster]

Yeah, uh, it's called a mental illness. He apparently actually CAN'T not obey the voices.

I get that he is crazy.

But he seems to have two problems

1. He hears voices that tell him things

2. He has to obey/believe these voices

If he only had one of these problems would he be crazy?

Do these two problems always present in tandem?

The mechanics of it seem odd.

[Muravyets]

Yeah, uh, it's called a mental illness. He apparently actually CAN'T not obey the voices.

I get that he is crazy.

But he seems to have two problems

1. He hears voices that tell him things

2. He has to obey/believe these voices

If he only had one of these problems would he be crazy?

Do these two problems always present in tandem?

The mechanics of it seem odd.

If he had only problem #1, he would be crazy but probably functional.

If he has both problems #1 and #2, then he is not functional and must be institutionalized.

Since he apparently has both problems AND the voices he must obey told him to cut a woman's throat, he is criminally insane and really should not get to go to the county fair with all the other kids.

EDIT: Why do the mechanics of it seem odd? I would think it is a matter of degree of illness.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Criminally insane killer disappears from fair

SPOKANE -- A criminally insane killer who strangled a woman because voices told him she was a witch has walked away from an Eastern State Hospital field trip to the Spokane Interstate Fair and may be trying to hitchhike home to Sunnyside.

Deputies have been combing the fairgrounds and the area within several blocks of the sprawling complex in search of Phillip Paul, 47, a man with a history of escape and assault in Spokane County in addition to being found criminally insane in the wake of the 1987 strangulation killing of an elderly Granger woman.

Paul was on a field trip to the fair with a group of Eastern State Hospital patients Thursday morning when he disappeared from the rest of his group. The rest of the patients from the group from Eastern State Hospital have been accounted for and taken from the fairgrounds.

The Spokane County Sheriff's Office acknowledges they are "dismayed" with Eastern State's Hospital reporting of Paul's disappearance. While he was reported missing at 1:14 PM apparently Eastern may have known Paul was missing as early as 11:30 AM, more than an hour and a half before they notified authorities about his disappearance.

"It appears now there was a two hour lapse from the point he disappeared from his attendant to the sheriff's office was notified of his escape and obviously that's a concern to us," Sgt. Reagan said. "We're concerned that we were not aware that people of his criminal history were being brought to the fair for day trips. As a courtesy we would have liked to have been notified ahead of time."

"Certainly as a matter of professional courtesy once he disappeared we feel the responsible thing would have been to have been immediately notified," Reagan continued. "As soon as we were notified within 30 minutes we had saturated the fairgrounds with security people and Spokane Valley police officers."

Reagan added that had notification been made to authorities by Eastern State Hospital in "a more timely fashion the odds of catching him would have been much greater."

Shortly before 4 PM the Sheriff's Officer reported they have a witness who says that Phillip Paul walked into a business located in the 3600 block of E. Springfield at 11:30. Authorities say they are between 80 and 85-percent sure this was an actual sighting of Paul.

The man they think might have been Paul was last seen walking westbound from the Sprague/ Trent corridor. Authorities think Paul, who has no money, may be attempting to hitchhike home to Sunnyside in the Yakima Valley where his parents live.

"His sister tells us he calls his parents in Sunnyside virtually every day and that if he's escaped he's headed home," Spokane County Sheriff Sergeant Dave Reagan said.

Paul is described as being 5'9", 207 lbs, Caucasian with brown hair and goatee. He was wearing blue jeans, a blue T-shirt and a red windbreaker.

Field Trip not approved by Fair officials

The fair director confirmed that they never received a request from Eastern State Hospital to have a group of their patients attend the fair and they were unaware a group of patients were at the fair Thursday. Fair officials say they never would have approved such a request.

Eastern State Hospital has declined comment on the incident but Jim Stevenson at DSHS says that field trips are not uncommon. Stevenson says field trips are determined on a case-by-case basis by each patient's treatment team as to whether or not they can participate.

Stevenson said it has nothing to do with their crime but more to do with where they are in their treatment. The number of staff that goes on these field trips is determined by the number of patients that go.

Voices told him Granger woman was a witch

Paul was originally charged with murder in Yakima County in 1987 for the killing of 78-year-old Ruth Mottley in her home near Granger. He was later diagnosed as being criminally insane and suffering from schizophrenia and had been receiving treatment at Eastern State Hospital.

He claimed he heard voices which told him that Mottley was a witch and he strangled her to death.

State Department of Corrections officials confirm that Paul has spent all of his correctional time in mental health facilities such as Eastern State Hospital. Since he was put in the hospital for psychiatric care he has received several opportunities to get out of the hospital.

In 1996 a judge ruled that Paul could attend Spokane Community College during the day as long as he returned back to the hospital at night. Two years later Judge Michael Leavitt ruled Paul could have overnight visits in Spokane as long as he was with an adult member of his family.

Link


What I want to know is...why? Why would you take a criminally insane man....to the fair? Who the Hell thought this was a good idea?

I hope someone gets fire over this.

I wonder if he got a funnel cake before he left.

[JuNii]

Sounds like the plot to a weak horror film, really.

or a comedy...

I was just thinking the same thing.

This reminds me of another case (Which may be totally fabricated and in the realm of urban legend, but still, it's a fun story) where upon a minimum security prison decided "Hey, let's reward some of our prisoners who have demonstrated good behavior with a trip to the mall so they can buy Christmas presents!" Okay, not a fantastic idea, but if they had prison guards escorting them and if they at least had something like tracking bracelets on and some sort of clothing to indicate them as prisoners, nothing serious would have happened. They're minimum security anyway!

Oh? No tracking bracelets or other indicators that they were criminals? Okay guys, this is a really bad idea. Thank god you have those guards watching them.

...No guards?

Yes, prison officials thought it'd be fine to bus the convicts to the mall, hand them some cash to go shopping with and tell them "Alright guys, meet us back at entrance 3A at 5:00 o'clock! Promise! Pinky swear!" Needless to say a manhunt for escaped prisoners took place.
Not exactly dangerous since these convicts were most likely white collar criminals, but supremely stupid.

see... now me? I would've returned to be picked up. why? the guards gave me money, I got some stuff and I now have the guard's trust! muhahahahahahaha!

[Fiduses and Diuses]

He'll probably take his insane friends out on a fishing boat.

I'm not getting the reference.

Its from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

[Rhodmhire]

Well, the root question is really quite obvious:

Did he get his money's worth?

[Antilon]

I wonder if he got a funnel cake before he left.

Fuck that, he won the giant panda! 'Cause, you know, the voice told him to.

[Wilgrove]

I wonder if he got a funnel cake before he left.

Fuck that, he won the giant panda! 'Cause, you know, the voice told him to.

The voices really love the giant Panda, and the tea cup rides.