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National socialism.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Greed and Death
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Founded: Mar 20, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Greed and Death » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:12 am

Maurepas wrote:I dont think so, Case in point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Spain

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationalist_China

Both of which met revolutionary ends regardless of neutrality(Spain) or being part of the Allies in WWII(China)...

nationalist China moved to Taiwan and became a democracy in the 1980's.
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Risottia
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Founded: Sep 05, 2006
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Risottia » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:13 am

Nilpnt wrote:So we all know the what the Nazi's are. My question is: If the Nazi's didn't... well go nuts... would their ideology still be widespread?

If you think that the Nazis, at some point in history, went "nuts", this means that you think that Nazis weren't "nuts" in the beginning.
Read "Mein Kampf", and then you'll see that this is NOT the case. Nazism has been totally nuts from its original conception.

Would we still have National Socialist countries today?

Had lots till two to three decades ago, in the broader meaning of "right-wing dictatorships". Chile, Argentina, Greece, Portugal, Spain, the Philippines...
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Nilpnt
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Founded: May 09, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Nilpnt » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:00 am

FreeAgency wrote:
Nilpnt wrote:So we all know the what the Nazi's are. My question is: If the Nazi's didn't... well go nuts... would their ideology still be widespread? Would we still have National Socialist countries today? Or would it have taken the same fate as Communism?


No, unlike Communism, National Socializm is not a real political theory. It is best described as an offshoot of Fascism, which isn't a clearly defined political theory either, but at least has recognizable characteristics (Hyper-nationalizm, allusions to a glorious and likely imagined past, direct government intervention into social, military, and economic affairs, etc.)

National Socialism has all of these features as well, but combines them with a number of other truely odd beliefs that are so specific to Germany that the ideology really could not exist elsewhere without substantial modification. Nations with a large German or otherwise Germanic (which would include most of Europe depending on how far one is willing to streach the term) could easily modify Nazism so as to render it more viable in their countries; however, even this would be unlikely as the ideology is so centered on a totally anachronistic ideal of German history that it would nessisarily eclipse any local nationalist sentiment (So you can't be a prowd Englishman and a Nazi, because a Nazis pride comes first and formost from his Aryan heritage.) And, of course, Nazism could never exist in a nation like China or Egypt.


Wait. Didn't the Nazi's consider englishmen and the likes as equals, if not full Ayran like them?

NotRust wrote:So, what your basically asking is "If WWII had never happened, would the Nazis and other fascist regimes have survived longer, and possibly influenced other states to move towards fascism?"?

The answer is yes.


Not exactly. WW2 could have continued what I mean was after the fact. If they hadn't been genocidal and had, well, more of a regard for human life would the idea still be in effect and would there be major Nazi parties still in eruope. The answer I seem to be getting is no. Its seems it took Hitler and without him well then we probally wouldn't be doing this thread.
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FreeAgency
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Founded: Jul 31, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby FreeAgency » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:10 pm

Nilpnt wrote:
FreeAgency wrote:
Nilpnt wrote:So we all know the what the Nazi's are. My question is: If the Nazi's didn't... well go nuts... would their ideology still be widespread? Would we still have National Socialist countries today? Or would it have taken the same fate as Communism?


No, unlike Communism, National Socializm is not a real political theory. It is best described as an offshoot of Fascism, which isn't a clearly defined political theory either, but at least has recognizable characteristics (Hyper-nationalizm, allusions to a glorious and likely imagined past, direct government intervention into social, military, and economic affairs, etc.)

National Socialism has all of these features as well, but combines them with a number of other truely odd beliefs that are so specific to Germany that the ideology really could not exist elsewhere without substantial modification. Nations with a large German or otherwise Germanic (which would include most of Europe depending on how far one is willing to streach the term) could easily modify Nazism so as to render it more viable in their countries; however, even this would be unlikely as the ideology is so centered on a totally anachronistic ideal of German history that it would nessisarily eclipse any local nationalist sentiment (So you can't be a prowd Englishman and a Nazi, because a Nazis pride comes first and formost from his Aryan heritage.) And, of course, Nazism could never exist in a nation like China or Egypt.


Wait. Didn't the Nazi's consider englishmen and the likes as equals, if not full Ayran like them?


More or less, due to their anglo-saxon heritage the Nazis considered the English to be an Aryan race that was only slightly more degraded then their own. But the problem is that Nazism has so many distinctly German features to it that it simply wouldn't appeal to English Nationalists. For instance contemporary English Nationalism embraced the ideal of racial superiority as well, however their main arguement was that their current race was comprised of all the best Northern European races, "the best northern stock," was the phrase I believe, to form a superior hybrid. Accordingly this ideal of a superior composite race could not have coexisted with the Nazi ideal decent from titan-like Aryans. So an English Nazi would have to abandon his own nationalism to accept the German one. This is just one example, but I think you get the idea.
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Baltija
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Founded: Apr 09, 2006
Ex-Nation

Postby Baltija » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:21 pm

NotRust wrote:So, what your basically asking is "If WWII had never happened, would the Nazis and other fascist regimes have survived longer, and possibly influenced other states to move towards fascism?"?

The answer is yes.


This.

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