Did collection calls contribute to Floridian's death?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2009/09/1 ... ans-death/

Florida law firm Morgan and Morgan filed a first-of-its-kind lawsuit alleging that a company's collection calls were so frequent and harassing that they contributed to a person's death because they increased Stanley McLeod's blood pressure and stress levels.
McLeod's debt problems stemmed from the fact that he had difficulty paying his mortgage because he had to quit his job at Sears after suffering a massive heart attack.
Dianne McLeod, Stanley's wife, described how he would get 10 to 12 calls each day. With each call his face would turn red and he'd experience shortness of breath.
McLeod saved tapes of some of the messages left on their answering machine. One message even commented on the expensive helicopter ride that saved Stanley's life: "Get your act together and make the payments on your mortgage. Why don't you have that helicopter pick you up and bring that payment to the office."
Bill Howard, who heads the consumer protection unit of Morgan and Morgan, got a copy of those messages and filed the lawsuit. Now that Florida has passed strong consumer debt collection legislation, more Florida law firms are focusing on debt collection abuse.
Morgan and Morgan urges Floridians to save answering machine recordings if they get aggressive debt collection calls and includes this advice on a statewide advertising campaign to drum up business for the consumer protection unit. You can listen to some of the recordings they collected.
There are reprimands like this: "It's called a telephone. What you do is pick up the phone and you hold it near your face and you speak into it." Another debt collector called and said, "Hey Alphonse, cupcake, I am like right now climbing into your family background. I am going to dig up so deep up yours, you're going to wonder why you didn't do the right thing."
Florida law requires debt collectors to:
Send a written notice within five days after you are first contacted, telling you the amount of money you owe. The notice must also specify the name of the creditor to whom you owe the money and what action you should take if you believe you do not owe the money.
Limit their calls to reasonable times, such as before 8 a.m. or after 9 p.m., unless you agree to a different time.
Stop contacting you if you write a letter to the agency telling them to stop. Once the agency receives your letter, they may not contact you again except to say there will be no further contact, or to notify you if the debt collector or the creditor intends to take some specific action, such as file a lawsuit.
Stop contacting you if you say you don't owe the money unless they send proof of the debt, such as a copy of the bill.
Also, a debt collector can not harass or abuse anyone. They cannot:
-Use threats of violence against the person, property or reputation.
-Use obscene or profane language.
-Advertise the debt.
-Repeatedly or continuously make telephone calls with the intent to harass or abuse the person at the called number.
-Tell you that you will be arrested if you do not pay; that they will seize, garnish, attach, or sell your property or wages unless the collection agency or creditor intends to do so and has a legal right to do so; or that a lawsuit will be filed against you, when they have no legal right to file or do not intend to file such a suit.
Also, debt collectors must accurately disclose their identities to the person at the called number. They may not use false statements, such as falsely implying that they are attorneys, that you have committed a crime, or that they operate or work for a credit bureau or misrepresenting the amount of your debt. They cannot indicate the involvement of an attorney in collecting a debt or indicate that papers sent to you are legal forms when they are not.
The Florida provisions are similar to those in place nationally under the Fair Debt Collection Practices Act.
The big difference for Floridians is that they have a strong consumer protection advocate in the Attorney General's office and law firms in Florida see a better chance to win lawsuits under the Florida law, which is why Morgan and Morgan and other Florida law firms are beginning to file suits. If you successfully file a lawsuit against the collection agency for violating state and/or federal law and prevail, you may be awarded your actual damages, as well as attorneys' fees and costs.
Even if you don't live in Florida, save any recordings from debt collectors that you believe prove harassment. You could end up with a successful claim and maybe win some of the money you need to help clear our your debt.
If you win, the judge can require the collector to pay you for any damages you can prove you suffered because of the illegal collection practices, like lost wages and medical bills. The judge can require the debt collector to pay up to $1,000, even if you can't prove that you suffered actual damages. A group of people also may sue a debt collector as part of a class action lawsuit and recover money for damages up to $500,000, or 1% of the collector's net worth, whichever amount is lower.

Have you, any of you, been harassased by debt collectors to the point of being health hazardous?

[RoI3]

What a waste. Debt collectors are cunts.

[Aelosia]

What a bunch of pricks.

Here we had an agency called "Doctor Diablo", who used the same kind of tactic. They were outlawed after an scandal related to a beating they provided to a debtor.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

This man had a pre-existing heart condition. That was the main reason why he had to quit his job. But those debt collectors... can be indeed a bit cunt-ish. I mean, there are ways and there are ways of doing your job. Harassing shouldn't be one of those.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What a bunch of pricks.

Here we had an agency called "Doctor Diablo", who used the same kind of tactic. They were outlawed after an scandal related to a beating they provided to a debtor.

Woman, with such a name, I can believe them being outlawed.

[Aelosia]

What a bunch of pricks.

Here we had an agency called "Doctor Diablo", who used the same kind of tactic. They were outlawed after an scandal related to a beating they provided to a debtor.

Woman, with such a name, I can believe them being outlawed.

"Te quemamos para que pagues" was their slogan. "We'll flame you until you pay".

Go and figure it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What a bunch of pricks.

Here we had an agency called "Doctor Diablo", who used the same kind of tactic. They were outlawed after an scandal related to a beating they provided to a debtor.

Woman, with such a name, I can believe them being outlawed.

"Te quemamos para que pagues" was their slogan. "We'll flame you until you pay".

Go and figure it.

Do you know what policies against this does Venezuela has? That's way more than harassment.

[Non Aligned States]

Have you, any of you, been harassased by debt collectors to the point of being health hazardous?

Personally, no, but loan sharks and their debt collectors here have been known to actually kidnap debtors and imprison them to force their families to pay up. This also includes the usual vandalizing of property, physical assault and vandalizing. They also aggressively advertise their services, with their latest tactic revolving around promising easy loans to foreign students with only their passports as collateral. Combined with high interest rates, I think you can see the double jeopardy that students end up getting if they fall for it.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Have you, any of you, been harassased by debt collectors to the point of being health hazardous?

Personally, no, but loan sharks and their debt collectors here have been known to actually kidnap debtors and imprison them to force their families to pay up. This also includes the usual vandalizing of property, physical assault and vandalizing. They also aggressively advertise their services, with their latest tactic revolving around promising easy loans to foreign students with only their passports as collateral. Combined with high interest rates, I think you can see the double jeopardy that students end up getting if they fall for it.

And the government doesn't regulate this, at all? Debt collection agencies in your country sound more like terrorists. Really.

[Aelosia]

What a bunch of pricks.

Here we had an agency called "Doctor Diablo", who used the same kind of tactic. They were outlawed after an scandal related to a beating they provided to a debtor.

Woman, with such a name, I can believe them being outlawed.

"Te quemamos para que pagues" was their slogan. "We'll flame you until you pay".

Go and figure it.

Do you know what policies against this does Venezuela has? That's way more than harassment.

Not now, really. I can find out, but legal sites in Venezuela are so full of rubbish that I'm just lazy to try to find out. (Plus. My hangover is not letting me focus on adquiring any detailed information).

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

What a bunch of pricks.

Here we had an agency called "Doctor Diablo", who used the same kind of tactic. They were outlawed after an scandal related to a beating they provided to a debtor.

Woman, with such a name, I can believe them being outlawed.

"Te quemamos para que pagues" was their slogan. "We'll flame you until you pay".

Go and figure it.

Do you know what policies against this does Venezuela has? That's way more than harassment.

Not now, really. I can find out, but legal sites in Venezuela are so full of rubbish that I'm just lazy to try to find out. (Plus. My hangover is not letting me focus on adquiring any detailed information).

Brava brava!! Bienvenida al club de las borrachonas!!! El tequila rosa y la cerveza mexicana me tienen ida, nena!

Don't worry. I just thought a government would regulate debt collection agencies to prevent things like the situation that happened in FL.

[Buxtahatche]

What a waste. Debt collectors are cunts.

Some of these guys went way out of line... but remember, a debt collector is:
1.) reminding you that you took something from someone and now must repay them. So it is YOUR FAULT that they are calling- if you don't want any collectors calling, run a cash-only budget.
2.) people doing an unattractive job to get money for their families so they can pay their bills. Most work in cubicles in offices like a lot of us, and they probably have debt collectors calling them at night.

The PEOPLE were being assholes to this guy, and they probably did raise his BP quite a bit- but as a nurse, I'd be much interested in ALL the factors that affected this man's heart- not just the fact that he owed a lot of people a lot of money.

[Kryozerkia]

We have similar laws in Ontario (Collection Agencies Act), one of which stipulates that the collection agency attempting to collect the debt cannot call the person more than 3 times per week, but they can send as many letters as they want. Debt collectors cannot threaten to have someone's immigration status to be revoked and thus have them deported. It has been known to happen. Nor can they go to your employer under any circumstances. There are other restrictions on who they can communicate with.

The times they can call between are slightly varied but the general principles are the same. In any case, it is strong proof that these debt collectors are no better than your typical loan shark.

For those wondering how debt collection agencies factor into the picture when you have a debt as a result of a contract with another party (whether it is a funiture store or credit card), the company you ahd the original debt with will first try and collect from you themselves. If they cannot, they will sell the rights to the debt collection to a third party, a collection agency, and the debt is now payable to that agency. They are within their rights to collect on that debt provided they act within the scope of the law. If they do and the person who owes the debt is uncooperative, they can after fulfilling the minimum requirements go straight into a court action.

This is when you really need to know your rights as a consumer and be prepared to fight for those rights. These agencies will try and have the average person believe there is no way out. They will threaten as you have seen in story in the OP.

[Nilpnt]

It funny see I read about collecters harassing people but what about the people harassing them. I know that when they call my house I have 3 or 4 different persona's I choose between to mess with their heads. I'm either a Mexican immagrint with an obsession for tacos, a gangster, a redneck, or a crazy person. Its actully kind of fun

[Non Aligned States]

And the government doesn't regulate this, at all? Debt collection agencies in your country sound more like terrorists. Really.

The government's position is that anyone who takes loans from anyone outside of banks "must be" compulsive gamblers who are "criminals" and "deserve no pity". And also, that the loan sharks are "victims" because of defaulters. Mind you, this is the same government which is quite happy for some odd reason that most major banks here are not interested in giving small or intermediate loans for business purposes. Oh, and they would be happy if you didn't pay attention to all those grand houses they have built that cost several dozen times their annual salary.

Here in this country, the basic wisdom is that any agency meant to prevent crime, is actively engaged in it. Wildlife officers regularly sell endangered and protected species to the black market, immigration and border officials engaging in human trafficking, that sort of thing.

[Sitspot]

I actually wonder about the legitimacy of selling on debts and wonder if a law preventing that might make the whole situation more civilized. It might also make the original extenders of credit consider their lending policies a bit more.
While I sympathize with the family of the guy who died, I am conscious that his unpaid debts will eventually be paid by ordinary consumers. Companies don't suffer these losses themselves, they simply increase their prices to cover their deficit and that ends up being paid by paying customers. I'd rather subsidize poverty directly through my taxes than indirectly through increased prices.

[Lucky Bicycle Works]

I actually wonder about the legitimacy of selling on debts and wonder if a law preventing that might make the whole situation more civilized. It might also make the original extenders of credit consider their lending policies a bit more.

Hear, hear!

If not a ban on selling-on debts, perhaps a limit to what proportion of the debt can be on-sold. Clearly, at some level it becomes punitive rather than remunerative. The worst debts are sold-on (possibly with a commission bonus which it is hard to prevent) as punishment, as a "don't fuck with us" message to bad debtors, which the original creditor would never dream of imposing on any customer however negligent. It would damage their business to be such bastards, but once the debt has passed through a few hands it doesn't appear as their doing any more.

Perhaps 50%. Or three generations of debt-selling. Perhaps 10% ... in any case, there should be some limit to this process of turning a debt over to gangland, where 'you wouldn't be in with such bad people if you hadn't done something wrong.'

While I sympathize with the family of the guy who died, I am conscious that his unpaid debts will eventually be paid by ordinary consumers. Companies don't suffer these losses themselves, they simply increase their prices to cover their deficit and that ends up being paid by paying customers. I'd rather subsidize poverty directly through my taxes than indirectly through increased prices.

Minimum wage then. Really. Some phone workers make excellent money, but because the industry is so corrupted by "incentives" (pay for results) a great many also do a week's work for less than the minimum wage.

Bust that (by enforcing the minimum wage) and the annoyances of tele-marketing and punitive debt-collection will recede markedly.

There are some jobs that just should not be done. Society is served better by those 'employees' not working at all!

[Lackadaisical2]

I actually wonder about the legitimacy of selling on debts and wonder if a law preventing that might make the whole situation more civilized. It might also make the original extenders of credit consider their lending policies a bit more.
While I sympathize with the family of the guy who died, I am conscious that his unpaid debts will eventually be paid by ordinary consumers. Companies don't suffer these losses themselves, they simply increase their prices to cover their deficit and that ends up being paid by paying customers. I'd rather subsidize poverty directly through my taxes than indirectly through increased prices.

Why? they people involved in this case clearly broke the law (and the extent to which they actually damaged his health may be debatable). As long as people are kept in line as to the extent in which they can bother people, I think its fine. I don't see any reason for me to pay anymore than I have to because someone else defaulted. And why would you rather pay it in taxes? Nothing of what you said would actually decrease the amount that companies lose due to debtors, if anything it'd increase it. There's a reason they sell the debts off- they can't make money on it. They cut their losses, in the end it is beneficial to your average consumer.

[Charlotte Ryberg]

Collection calls of this nature is certainly illegal in the UK too. Causing a person to succumb into poor health is really illegal and in fact criminal, so therefore the debtors are likely to not only win, but there may be criminal proceedings for threats, manslaughter or similar.

[Pantera]

For a long time we were getting random debt-collection calls that weren't even FOR my wife or myself. I guess the lady with the debts used our telephone number previously, but this went on for like two months, at least one call a day and usually more. They were always professional and never resorted to anything similar to the things in the OP, but they were irritatingly persistent. After speaking to a handful of supervisors and demanding they stop calling to no avail, I started asking them to tell me about their pussies.

Male or female on the other end? "Tell me about your pussy, baby."

The calls stopped shortly after.

[Pedoka]

What a waste. Debt collectors are cunts.

Heres a novel suggestion, pay your fucking bills and don't live beyond your means.

[Kryozerkia]

What a waste. Debt collectors are cunts.

Heres a novel suggestion, pay your fucking bills and don't live beyond your means.

People who don't pay their bills aren't always the deadbeat type who purposefully live beyond their means. They are most likely people who have been keeping on top of it but make a small error one month and over extend in order to do some emergency repairs on the car, pay for the dental work or something that sets them back, and while they struggle to prioritise their debts, they let a bill slip by unnoticed. Debt is no reason for collection agents to be prats.

[Lacadaemon]

Bankruptcy law needs to be reformed. It should go back to everyone having the option of chapter 7 type arrangement with a complete discharge of all debts (including student loans). There's absolutely no reason why debts should exists until the person dies if they are unable to pay for some reason (even if they are a dead beat).

Will people abuse that? Probably. But then banks should be a bit more fucking careful about how they dole out money as it takes at least two parties to make a bad debt.

After the initial mayhem in the capital markets caused by such a change, it would actually be quite productive since it would channel money back into self-liquidating debt, rather than consumption. So jobs and stuff.

[Sitspot]

Nothing of what you said would actually decrease the amount that companies lose due to debtors, if anything it'd increase it. There's a reason they sell the debts off- they can't make money on it. They cut their losses, in the end it is beneficial to your average consumer.

I said that being unable to sell off their debts might make them consider their lending policies. The consumer would benefit most if they simply didn't sell to people who were unlikely to have the money to pay. Everything they lose the consumer pays for. My personal opinion is that the present system of putting pressure on commissioned sales staff to sell whenever remotely possible, in the knowledge that a large percentage of these sales will be sold off to collection agencies, is far from the most effective way to do business.