Abortion

[The Pretend Pub]

I'm assuming that you are anti-abortion even when both mother and baby will die?

Furthermore, thankfully abortion in most places adheres to the word of God. It's legal, you see. Therefore, it's not the unlawful taking of life.

Phew. All you Christians should be thanking the Supreme Court for making abortion acceptable to God.

But that's taking women one step away from being submissive to their husbands, which is part of the christian faith.

No, it's not.

[Ghanja]

The only people that should be arguing about abortions are:
- The woman having it
- In some cases the father
The rest should just float off and mind their own business.

[Chinese Regions]

Pro-Life and Anti-Abortion.

Human Life begins at conception and the Word of God clearly forbids the unlawful taking of life. No one has the right to decide when a life ends, not even if it is their own. It is Almighty God who shall determine the when to give life and when to take it away, and none other.

Why should we obey sky daddy?

[Stychia]

The only people that should be arguing about abortions are:
- The woman having it
- In some cases the father
The rest should just float off and mind their own business.

BUT IT'S MURDER! Although it really isn't because it makes no sense that you murder somebody before they were even born

[Iuuvic]

Are there more recent stats on maternal mortality rates for the US since 2006(13.3 deaths of 100,000 live births)?

[Hippostania]

Pro-choice. Remvoing an unwanted parasite from your body is no different than taking antibiotics when you have a flu.

[Pilgrims]

I think that the basis of your morality will decide this issue. Is it wrong to kill a baby after it has been born? Not according to some atheists (http://creation.com/abortion-after-birth)! If you believe that God is the Creator and that it is murder to take a human life (as I do), abortion is obviously wrong. If you decide that society can make up their own minds and that what is best for me in my opinion (my freedom of choice) is what decides right and wrong, then pro-choice is the obvious choice. I don't see either side convincing the other, because the basis of their morality/ethics is different. Science can give some guidance in the sense that a foetus, unlike any other "clump of tissue/cells" will naturally develop into a fully-grown human person.

OT: On the related philosophical question on whether something is wrong just because God says so in the Bible? The Bible makes the claim that God is inherently moral and therefore His character is the basis of the morality as depicted in the Bible and therefore of the morality that He expects from us as people (who were created in His image). Part of the reason why murder (and abortion) is wrong, is because only the Creator of life itself (God) has the moral right to take away life.

Peace!

[Divair]

Pro-choice. Remvoing an unwanted parasite from your body is no different than taking antibiotics when you have a flu.

This is quite possibly the only thing I agree with you on.

[Ifreann]

The only people that should be arguing about abortions are:
- The woman having it
- In some cases the father
The rest should just float off and mind their own business.

Why, exactly, can I not have an opinion on abortion?

[Teutonic Territories]

The only people that should be arguing about abortions are:
- The woman having it
- In some cases the father
The rest should just float off and mind their own business.

Why, exactly, can I not have an opinion on abortion?

This. We see it as murder.

[Raeyh]

Pro-Life and Anti-Abortion.

Human Life begins at conception and the Word of God clearly forbids the unlawful taking of life. No one has the right to decide when a life ends, not even if it is their own. It is Almighty God who shall determine the when to give life and when to take it away, and none other.

Now, there are other reasons to be pro-life, but religious ones are silly. At least "life begins at conception" is.

From a religious perspective, life begins at quickening, which is when the soul enters the body. This (supposedly) occurs the first time the woman feels the fetus move.

[The Cummunist State]

I think that the basis of your morality will decide this issue. Is it wrong to kill a baby after it has been born? Not according to some atheists (http://creation.com/abortion-after-birth)! If you believe that God is the Creator and that it is murder to take a human life (as I do), abortion is obviously wrong. If you decide that society can make up their own minds and that what is best for me in my opinion (my freedom of choice) is what decides right and wrong, then pro-choice is the obvious choice. I don't see either side convincing the other, because the basis of their morality/ethics is different. Science can give some guidance in the sense that a foetus, unlike any other "clump of tissue/cells" will naturally develop into a fully-grown human person.

OT: On the related philosophical question on whether something is wrong just because God says so in the Bible? The Bible makes the claim that God is inherently moral and therefore His character is the basis of the morality as depicted in the Bible and therefore of the morality that He expects from us as people (who were created in His image). Part of the reason why murder (and abortion) is wrong, is because only the Creator of life itself (God) has the moral right to take away life.

Peace!

The bible condones raping of children and murder. Sounds legit.
The fact of the matter is Atheists are in no way connected. People in organized religions are. Atheists share no beliefs, no dogmas or doctrines, it's just a made up word for people who don't believe in a god. So before you spout "Atheists are evil lololo" Check your own damn book.
Don't claim some fucking moral highground and imply that Atheists like killing babies from some half-ass junkyard motherfucker creationist website. And if you REALLY think other people are obligated to follow your god, then you need to think more. I don't give a damn about the god you praise. As it should be.

I can say, without arrogance and truthfully, I am better than your god. Like him, I'm driven by fear and I can hate things quite easily, but at least I give a shit and don't order the deaths of millions. So before you claim that moral high ground, remember that.

[Norstal]

Why, exactly, can I not have an opinion on abortion?

This. We see it as murder.

I see posting on this thread as murder, theft, treason, and a hate crime.

[The Cummunist State]

Why, exactly, can I not have an opinion on abortion?

This. We see it as murder.

You can have a opinion. I am of the opinion that preaching should be outlawed and no one should use drugs. The difference is, I'm not forcing laws on people because of a opinion.

[Raeyh]

The bible condones raping of children

Are you referring to how God impregnated Mary when she was, like, twelve? God assures us that she's still a virgin, so I don't think it counts.

[New England and The Maritimes]

The bible condones raping of children

Are you referring to how God impregnated Mary when she was, like, twelve? God assures us that she's still a virgin, so I don't think it counts.

Use of her body is not just rape, it is enslavement. In fact, by virtue of omniscience if you wish to proclaim this as a feature of your god, he has enslaved all life by creating it knowing full well that everything has already been determined and time is already over.

[The Cummunist State]

The bible condones raping of children

Are you referring to how God impregnated Mary when she was, like, twelve? God assures us that she's still a virgin, so I don't think it counts.

First off, you can't assume god exists for your argument to work. Secondly, no.
"Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves." Not sure exactly what verse, somewhere between Numbers 31:7-18 or something.
So yeah. Raping of young women. Sounds Legit.

[Raeyh]

Are you referring to how God impregnated Mary when she was, like, twelve? God assures us that she's still a virgin, so I don't think it counts.

First off, you can't assume god exists for your argument to work. Secondly, no.
"Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves." Not sure exactly what verse, somewhere between Numbers 31:7-18 or something.
So yeah. Raping of young women. Sounds Legit.

That's a bit of a leap of logic there. I think he was referring to taking them as slaves, not sex slaves. The later would go against the customs at the time.

[The Cummunist State]

First off, you can't assume god exists for your argument to work. Secondly, no.
"Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves." Not sure exactly what verse, somewhere between Numbers 31:7-18 or something.
So yeah. Raping of young women. Sounds Legit.

That's a bit of a leap of logic there. I think he was referring to taking them as slaves, not sex slaves. The later would go against the customs at the time.

Then why would he say virgins?
And better off, why would he condone it in the first place?

[Camicon]

I think that the basis of your morality will decide this issue. Is it wrong to kill a baby after it has been born? Not according to some atheists (http://creation.com/abortion-after-birth)! If you believe that God is the Creator and that it is murder to take a human life (as I do), abortion is obviously wrong. If you decide that society can make up their own minds and that what is best for me in my opinion (my freedom of choice) is what decides right and wrong, then pro-choice is the obvious choice. I don't see either side convincing the other, because the basis of their morality/ethics is different. Science can give some guidance in the sense that a foetus, unlike any other "clump of tissue/cells" will naturally develop into a fully-grown human person.

OT: On the related philosophical question on whether something is wrong just because God says so in the Bible? The Bible makes the claim that God is inherently moral and therefore His character is the basis of the morality as depicted in the Bible and therefore of the morality that He expects from us as people (who were created in His image). Part of the reason why murder (and abortion) is wrong, is because only the Creator of life itself (God) has the moral right to take away life.

Peace!

The bible condones raping of children and murder. Sounds legit.

No. No it does not. The New Testament overrides the Old Testament. That is one of the reasons, apparently, that God became human. To introduces new rules and guidelines for his people to follow. Jesus never said, in any sense, that raping children or murdering people is condoned by God.

The fact of the matter is Atheists are in no way connected. People in organized religions are. Atheists share no beliefs, no dogmas or doctrines, it's just a made up word for people who don't believe in a god. So before you spout "Atheists are evil lololo" Check your own damn book.

Calm down Sparky. He said some atheists. Not all atheists, or most atheists. He didn't say that these people were moral degenerates for believing infanticide should be allowed (although I certainly think so). Yes, the source took that stance, but the poster did not. He used the source to provide evidence that, yes, some atheists do believe infanticide should be legal.

And you might be shocked to learn this, but all atheists share the belief that there are/is no gods/God. Otherwise they would not be atheist.

Don't claim some fucking moral highground and imply that Atheists like killing babies from some half-ass junkyard motherfucker creationist website. And if you REALLY think other people are obligated to follow your god, then you need to think more. I don't give a damn about the god you praise. As it should be.

He said that, while he is religious and believes abortion is wrong, that he is pro-choice, because abortion is a purely moral topic, and morals are personal and subjective.

I can say, without arrogance and truthfully, I am better than your god. Like him, I'm driven by fear and I can hate things quite easily, but at least I give a shit and don't order the deaths of millions. So before you claim that moral high ground, remember that.

Whoa. Angry much? Learn about another religion before you tear into it like a 10-ounce steak. There are a wide variety of religions that worship God, with an even wider variety of opinions on the sort of "person/god" that God is. If He is a murderous avenging monster, or if He became human, and died an extremely violent and painful death for the sake of everyone on Earth, so that everyone (no matter creed or code) could find His salvation.

Pilgrims never specified which religious denomination he belongs to, and he never claimed any sort of moral highground.

[Raeyh]

Then why would he say virgins?
And better off, why would he condone it in the first place?

The whole reason they went to war with the Midianites in the first place was because of those women were seducing his men. The virgins would be innocent of this.

He would condone it because De. 21:10-14 allows it.

[The Cummunist State]

The bible condones raping of children and murder. Sounds legit.

No. No it does not. The New Testament overrides the Old Testament. That is one of the reasons, apparently, that God became human. To introduces new rules and guidelines for his people to follow. Jesus never said, in any sense, that raping children or murdering people is condoned by God.
Why would he say it in the first place, then?

The fact of the matter is Atheists are in no way connected. People in organized religions are. Atheists share no beliefs, no dogmas or doctrines, it's just a made up word for people who don't believe in a god. So before you spout "Atheists are evil lololo" Check your own damn book.

Calm down Sparky. He said some atheists. Not all atheists, or most atheists. He didn't say that these people were moral degenerates for believing infanticide should be allowed (although I certainly think so). Yes, the source took that stance, but the poster did not. He used the source to provide evidence that, yes, some atheists do believe infanticide should be legal.
He should have been more clear. Atheists get told all to many times that they are immoral for some shitty reason or another.
And you might be shocked to learn this, but all atheists share the belief that there are/is no gods/God. Otherwise they would not be atheist.
You have no idea what the word Atheist means, do you? That's cute.
No, they share a disbelief. That is not the same as belief that there is no god. You might be referring to strong Atheists, whom I disagree with. I think Agnostic Atheism is the correct position.

Don't claim some fucking moral highground and imply that Atheists like killing babies from some half-ass junkyard motherfucker creationist website. And if you REALLY think other people are obligated to follow your god, then you need to think more. I don't give a damn about the god you praise. As it should be.

He said that, while he is religious and believes abortion is wrong, that he is pro-choice, because abortion is a purely moral topic, and morals are personal and subjective.

I can say, without arrogance and truthfully, I am better than your god. Like him, I'm driven by fear and I can hate things quite easily, but at least I give a shit and don't order the deaths of millions. So before you claim that moral high ground, remember that.

Whoa. Angry much? Learn about another religion before you tear into it like a 10-ounce steak. There are a wide variety of religions that worship God, with an even wider variety of opinions on the sort of "person/god" that God is. If He is a murderous avenging monster, or if He became human, and died an extremely violent and painful death for the sake of everyone on Earth, so that everyone (no matter creed or code) could find His salvation.
I have learned all I need too. You might be surprised that the bible is actually a argument against these religions. And yes, there are three religions that worship Yahweh, the god in the bible. There are lots of religions that worship a personal deity. And to the "die on earth" shit, source? Cause I'm pretty sure he didn't. I mean,
He creates man and woman with original sin, then floods the earth to kill all of them, but they still have original sin, so he finds a loophole in his own rules which he refuses to change for no reason so he can sacrifice himself to himself to appease himself.
That's a little hard to believe.
Pilgrims never specified which religious denomination he belongs to, and he never claimed any sort of moral highground.

[The Cummunist State]

Then why would he say virgins?
And better off, why would he condone it in the first place?

The whole reason they went to war with the Midianites in the first place was because of those women were seducing his men. The virgins would be innocent of this.

He would condone it because De. 21:10-14 allows it.

1. Not a good reason to go to war.
2. The men and children would be innocent too.
3. A loving god would never allow slavery, rape, and genocide.

[Raeyh]

The whole reason they went to war with the Midianites in the first place was because of those women were seducing his men. The virgins would be innocent of this.

He would condone it because De. 21:10-14 allows it.

1. Not a good reason to go to war.
2. The men and children would be innocent too.
3. A loving god would never allow slavery, rape, and genocide.

1. You underestimate much the Israelites hate deviant pagan sex practices.
2. They fought in the war, presumably.
3. We aren't talking about a loving god here, this is YHWH. He's an angry, hateful, vengeful and jealous god.

[The Cummunist State]

1. Not a good reason to go to war.
2. The men and children would be innocent too.
3. A loving god would never allow slavery, rape, and genocide.

1. You underestimate of much the Israelite hate deviant pagan sex practices.
2. They fought in the war, presumably.
3. We aren't talking about a loving god here, this is YHWH. He's a angry, hateful, vengeful and jealous god.

No matter how much they hate sex, it is not a good reason to go to war with another country. And Yahweh is a character. He is made to be a loving character. So we go by that.