US drops plans to build missile defence system in Poland

by **The Archregimancy** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:54 am

The Czech Prime Minister Jan Fischer has announced that the Obama Administration has dropped plans to build a missile defence system in Poland and the Czech Republic:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8260230.stm

The Russian government has welcomed the news.

Any thoughts or discussion on what is a major US policy shift with implications in Europe and the Middle East?

by **Unchecked Expansion** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:58 am

Sounds like a good idea. Given that grand missile defence plans never seem to work, putting them up just seems to be a very hostile act that will just antagonise Russia. Diplomacy is more effective than millitary posturing to secure peace

by **Ashmoria** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:41 am

oh good. poland didnt really want it did they?

by **Lacadaemon** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:46 am

Ashmoria wrote:oh good. poland didnt really want it did they?

Think they probably did actually (despite whatever they'd say publicly).

You have to remember all the money that the US would have had to spend in Poland to build and maintain it. Plus I think the Poles may not like the Russians very much for some reason.

by **West Failure** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:47 am

Excellent news, Obama really is working out well.

by **Gauntleted Fist** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:48 am

Lacadaemon wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:oh good. poland didnt really want it did they?

Think they probably did actually (despite whatever they'd say publicly).

You have to remember all the money that the US would have had to spend in Poland to build and maintain it. Plus I think the Poles may not like the Russians very much for some reason.

Also, having American soldiers in their country would be an added deterrent to another country invading them . . . again.

by **Lacadaemon** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:48 am

Also Jesus is the King of Poland, and George Bush used to speak to Jesus a lot. No doubt this is where the idea came from.

by **Ashmoria** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:51 am

Lacadaemon wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:oh good. poland didnt really want it did they?

Think they probably did actually (despite whatever they'd say publicly).

You have to remember all the money that the US would have had to spend in Poland to build and maintain it. Plus I think the Poles may not like the Russians very much for some reason.

well yeah but it also puts a giant bullseye on them.

given that its poland and they ALWAYS have a bullseye on them but russia has so many other little lost chicks (to mix my metaphors) to pick up before they get to poland all things being otherwise equal.

by **Exilia and Colonies** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:51 am

This is obviously a preliminary move to invading Poland.

by **Gauntleted Fist** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:58 am

Exilia and Colonies wrote:This is obviously a preliminary move to invading Poland.

We just got done beating them down.

Now you want to curb stomp them?

by **The Tofu Islands** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:03 am

I think it's probably a good idea -- avoiding antagonising nuclear powers too much always is, and I doubt it would be too useful anyway. Also, in b4 URS supports this move.

by **Call to power** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:14 am

isn't it a bit late to do a complete turn around on this? I mean the policy of not looking weak in front of the Russians (why yes I am thinking of the simpsons) is I assume long dead but then that leaves the big question of what the new US policy of dealing with Russia would be

I wasn't at all worried about rouge missiles and such until I looked at the BBC map of missile defenses and saw that Europe is rather lacking

by **Ashmoria** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:24 am

Call to power wrote:isn't it a bit late to do a complete turn around on this? I mean the policy of not looking weak in front of the Russians (why yes I am thinking of the simpsons) is I assume long dead but then that leaves the big question of what the new US policy of dealing with Russia would be

I wasn't at all worried about rouge missiles and such until I looked at the BBC map of missile defenses and saw that Europe is rather lacking

hey if y'all are worried about it feel free to waste your own billions building it. then you can put it whereever y'all want.

are we really thinking that russia is going to invade europe sometime soon?

by **Call to power** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:39 am

Ashmoria wrote:hey if y'all are worried about it feel free to waste your own billions building it. then you can put it whereever y'all want.

pay for our own defense? are you mad were peace loving Europeans who would much rather spend the money on....whatever it is we spend all our money on

better to have the warlike people do the fighting, bread and circuses and all

Ashmoria wrote:are we really thinking that russia is going to invade europe sometime soon?

we need to keep Russia scared otherwise they will start pushing their luck and other cold war rhetoric

by **Ashmoria** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:40 am

Call to power wrote:
Ashmoria wrote:hey if y'all are worried about it feel free to waste your own billions building it. then you can put it whereever y'all want.

pay for our own defense? are you mad were peace loving Europeans who would much rather spend the money on....whatever it is we spend all our money on

better to have the warlike people do the fighting, bread and circuses and all

Ashmoria wrote:are we really thinking that russia is going to invade europe sometime soon?

we need to keep Russia scared otherwise they will start pushing their luck and other cold war rhetoric

oh i didnt think of THAT.

you have completely convinced me. excuse me while i make a call to the whitehouse....

by **Hydesland** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:41 am

Well this is going to give a worrying ego boost to the Russians for a while.

by **Call to power** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:45 am

Hydesland wrote:Well this is going to give a worrying ego boost to the Russians for a while.

what are they going to do? bully the Ukraine into extending their lease on that naval base?

by **Yootopia** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:00 am

Call to power wrote:
Hydesland wrote:Well this is going to give a worrying ego boost to the Russians for a while.

what are they going to do? bully the Ukraine into extending their lease on that naval base?

Would they have not done so were there some bullshit missile shield in Poland?

by **Pope Joan** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:01 am

Yesterday MSNBC reported that Polish and Czech politicos wer becoming "lukewarm" about Obama and saying his policies were "disappointing" and the stance of the US was "no longer as supportive as we had once thought".

Apparently, this translates to "You took away our moneymaker, and we are officially miffed."

Good move, US.

by **Hydesland** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:02 am

Call to power wrote:what are they going to do? bully the Ukraine into extending their lease on that naval base?

They're Russia, they always think of new and unpredicted ways to be obnoxious and stupid.

by **The Bicycle** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:04 pm

I find it absolutely amazing that people don't stop and think about this logically.

An ICBM volley will be launched so that its travel time will be the shortest possible, limiting the response time of the target's defences. That means the ICBMs will travel the shortest distance possible, and since we live on a spheroid, not a flat world, the shortest distance between Russia and mainland USA is across the Arctic. Certainly not over Central Europe where this ABM system was planned to be located.

An anti-ballistic missile system, such as the THAAD, the most likely choice (AFAIK) for a European ABM installation, can only engage ballistic targets virtually overhead with any hope of success. That means the launch site has to be very close to the expected ground track of the hostile missile, and also preferably close to the launch site of the enemy ICBM (so that altitude and speed are lower and the missile is still a single vessel and no warheads have been released).

So, the only thing an ABM system in the Czech Republic could prevent Russia from doing is attacking SW Europe and South America...
Well, that's not quite true, if they placed their ICBM launchers near the Black Sea coast, just east of the Crimea, they could get an ICBM path within THAAD striking distance if they targeted Miami...

On the other hand, if we find the great circle path from northern Iran to NYC or Washington DC (same path for both), we find that it passes right through the middle of Poland!

Think about that...

"Skallvia" · by **Maurepas** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:12 pm

probably for the best, big waste of money, gives the Ruskies something else to bitch about...

Im pretty sure we can wipe Russia out by shooting over ~~Canada~~ our hat, well enough that we dont need to bother with Poland...

by **Vetalia** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:15 pm

I have a feeling Russia made its own generous concessions to bring about this move.

by **Thethunderdome** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:24 pm

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/09/17/flashback_obama_pledges_missile_defense_against_iran_in_april.html
From April. So in the past 4 months have we eliminated the Iranian threat?

"Skallvia" · by **Maurepas** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:30 pm

Thethunderdome wrote:From April. So in the past 4 months have we eliminated the Iranian threat?

Iran was a threat to the United States? :blink:

I dont think Im willing to give them that much credit, tbqh,

US drops plans to build missile defence system in Poland

US drops plans to build missile defence system in Poland

Who is online