NationStates

Over the years I've seen a number of claims made about how people view transgendered and transsexual people, ranging from arguments that they are one of the great oppressed minorities of our time and transphobia is the mainstream, to claims that more people accept them than not and the main problem facing them is one of ignorance rather than prejudice. (It has also been claimed that there is no reason one should have an opinion on something that is effectively a personal choice, but people often have views about things that don't concern them and in my experience this topic is no different.)

NSG is, of course, a substantially more liberal place than average where it comes to views on sexuality and gender, so I'm not expecting the results from here to be representative of the population at large; nonetheless, feel free to share your experience of what the majority of people seem to think along with your own views.

Mindhar wrote:Over the years I've seen a number of claims made about how people view transgendered and transsexual people, ranging from arguments that they are one of the great oppressed minorities of our time and transphobia is the mainstream, to claims that more people accept them than not and the main problem facing them is one of ignorance rather than prejudice. (It has also been claimed that there is no reason one should have an opinion on something that is effectively a personal choice, but people often have views about things that don't concern them and in my experience this topic is no different.)

NSG is, of course, a substantially more liberal place than average where it comes to views on sexuality and gender, so I'm not expecting the results from here to be representative of the population at large; nonetheless, feel free to share your experience of what the majority of people seem to think along with your own views.

Opinions? You first. That's how it's done.

The second one, leaning towards the first, except that it seems to indicate by comparison to the second option that 'something' needs to be done.

You can teach a dog to purr but that doesn't make it a cat. Option number two for me.

Farnhamia wrote:Opinions? You first. That's how it's done.

I'd take a far fetched guess that her position on the issue is in her signature.

My opinion is that I'm expecting to see Option 5 pick up more votes than any other—but I don't think it will necessarily have a majority of them. Of course, there could be a kind of conformity bias involved; people who in practice hold less accepting views, as judged from post history and etc, might choose that option because they feel it's what they ought to think. I think Option 4 will also be fairly popular but I've got only anecdotal evidence to judge that.

I'm not Nate Silver; don't expect any projections.

My opinion is also that arranging a discussion of this topic in this format will be more conducive to civil discourse (and interesting numbers) than those that start with more inflammatory OPs. I suppose I could put some links in the OP if the proportion of people who don't have any idea what I'm talking about seems especially high.

edit: as for my signature, that's a joke. I voted for 5.

Who is impersonating me? Who dares?

Zottistan wrote:You can teach a dog to purr but that doesn't make it a cat. Option number two for me.

i read an article the other day about dags being born with cat brains

it was really weird!

If only for the reference to pon farr did I vote for the second last. Although opinions may not always be illogical, they aren't always true. Even if an opinion is logical, it can still be false. That said, I really don't care if someone is transgendered or whatever. They're still a person and who they are on the inside, their personality matters the most, not whether they self-identify as male or female.

Zeth Rekia wrote:

Farnhamia wrote:Opinions? You first. That's how it's done.

I'd take a far fetched guess that her position on the issue is in her signature.

"I AM A MAN PRETENDING TO BE A LADY. PLEASE USE THE CORRECT PRONOUN WHEN ADDRESSING ME!"

what does this even mean

Alyakia wrote:

Zottistan wrote:You can teach a dog to purr but that doesn't make it a cat. Option number two for me.

i read an article the other day about dags being born with cat brains

it was really weird!

I've seen video of a cat barking. FtC transspecied - a minority you've never heard of[/hipster]

First and foremost, I think transmen and transwomen already face enough bullshit in this world, so I do my best not to add to it. I use the pronouns they prefer, and I only discuss trans issues with them if they invite the discussion. I stand up for their right to live as they see fit.

My personal opinions on transexuality are a lot more complex, because I do not believe in binary gender in the first place, so I consequently do not believe that an individual can be a "man born in a woman's body" or vice versa. It is my opinion that transexuality would not exist if it were not for the arbitrary and artificial concept of binary gender that is enforced. This gets me into a lot of hot water with transpeople (and reasonably so).

Somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd option.
I've been exposed to quite a wide range of it too. From a convincing Moi Dix Mois' Mana, to I-can-see-from-this-far-away-that-you-are-a-man.
Initially, my comfort level is purely visual.. at least until I engage in conversation.
..
I imagine it has something to do with my own internal Uncanny Valley

Alyakia wrote:

Zeth Rekia wrote:I'd take a far fetched guess that her position on the issue is in her signature.

"I AM A MAN PRETENDING TO BE A LADY. PLEASE USE THE CORRECT PRONOUN WHEN ADDRESSING ME!"

what does this even mean

He's an actor from back when only men were allowed act, and thus had to play the female parts. Obviously.

Alyakia wrote:

Zeth Rekia wrote:I'd take a far fetched guess that her position on the issue is in her signature.

"I AM A MAN PRETENDING TO BE A LADY. PLEASE USE THE CORRECT PRONOUN WHEN ADDRESSING ME!"

what does this even mean

1) people who put "I am a lady, please use the correct pronoun etc" in their signatures
2) http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GIRL
3) what is the correct pronoun to use when referring to a man pretending to be a woman, anyway? is there one?
4) intentional absurdity caused by 3)
5) ???
6) humour! it's funny, right? did you lol out loud? no? oh well

I only put about 30 seconds of thought into my signatures anyway. Maybe I should change it to something about bonobos but that's been done :<

Bottle wrote:My personal opinions on transexuality are a lot more complex, because I do not believe in binary gender in the first place, so I consequently do not believe that an individual can be a "man born in a woman's body" or vice versa. It is my opinion that transexuality would not exist if it were not for the arbitrary and artificial concept of binary gender that is enforced.

Question—you're a neurobiologist. How do you reconcile this belief with findings about sexually dimorphic areas of the brain e.g. the stria terminalis which some scientists have proposed as a biological basis for gender identity disorder? Is it simply that your belief is that it is the label of "transsexuality" that is arbitrary, as other cultures recognise these differences as individual genders et cetera, or do you think that gender identity disorder itself would not exist if not for culture—that if the concept of gender were to die out, no one would ever feel the need to change their sex?

Mindhar wrote:

Bottle wrote:My personal opinions on transexuality are a lot more complex, because I do not believe in binary gender in the first place, so I consequently do not believe that an individual can be a "man born in a woman's body" or vice versa. It is my opinion that transexuality would not exist if it were not for the arbitrary and artificial concept of binary gender that is enforced.

Question—you're a neurobiologist. How do you reconcile this belief with findings about sexually dimorphic areas of the brain e.g. the stria terminalis which some scientists have proposed as a biological basis for gender identity disorder?

Given that nobody has a "control group" of brains from humans who have grown up in societies that don't enforce binary gender, those studies don't really provide any evidence that the differences in brain regions are the cause of gender differences; it's just as likely that the differences are observed because male and female people are pressured to display different traits, to show different behaviors, to focus on different skills, and to literally exhibit different phenotypes. Small wonder that our plastic human brains adapt!

Mindhar wrote: Is it simply that your belief is that it is the label of "transsexuality" that is arbitrary, as other cultures recognise these differences as individual genders et cetera, or do you think that gender identity disorder itself would not exist if not for culture—that if the concept of gender were to die out, no one would ever feel the need to change their sex?

Both, really. I mean, the first kind of contributes to the existence of the second. I do believe that the entire concept of "being in the wrong body" would cease to exist if artificial gender roles were abolished. There would likely still be a small minority of individuals who experience legit body dysmorphic disorder, since we obviously know of clinical cases such as alien limb syndrome*, but I do not believe that most transpeople fit into that category.


*Link for the curious: http://science.howstuffworks.com/scienc ... n-hand.htm

Fourth and fifth option for me. I do not see how it is my business to judge your sexuality/gender. Heck, in general I don't particularly care about peoples genders/sexuality unless I want to have consensual sex with them.

I never understood "gender roles." I still don't. Didn't we achieve equality among the sexes awhile back? So, in other words, there is no real difference between the two in the eyes of society?

Raeyh wrote:Didn't we achieve equality among the sexes awhile back?

No.

[quote] So, in other words, there is no real difference between the two in the eyes of society?[/quote[

God no.

Raeyh wrote:I never understood "gender roles." I still don't. Didn't we achieve equality among the sexes awhile back? So, in other words, there is no real difference between the two in the eyes of society?

What society are you living in?

Farnhamia wrote:Opinions? You first. That's how it's done.

What's yours?

Can you not make a script to post this in as many threads as possible or something, it'd save you a lot of time.

I've no objective opinion as such but as a matter of interest..

..as someone who's chosen not to eat meat, I understand people have questions about it despite, from my perspective, the drudgery of having to answer those questions. It's a conversation point, I recognise that, and though I've tried a variety of means to respond I can sometimes just think 'can you just fuck off with your questions?'.

Not to compare because mine is a decision based on principle rather than genetic or neurological impulse (though that's entirely up for debate over the meaning of decision) and so despite primarily thinking 'it's an aspect of life much as eye colour is' I can't help being fascinated in meeting, not only transgendered people, but anyone with a significant 'abnormaility' in regard to mainstream life.

Ultimately it's selfish in terms of gaining a perspective on life far removed from mine, and I appreciate I should perhaps disregard and treat as part of the embroidery of life's variety.

So I'm certainly not, in any way, revulsed, but I do have a burning curiosity to ask questions about life as a transgendered person despite the knowledge it's probably tedious if not humiliating to be treated as 'unique', which can be positive or 'different' which can be negative.

The Blaatschapen wrote:

Raeyh wrote:I never understood "gender roles." I still don't. Didn't we achieve equality among the sexes awhile back? So, in other words, there is no real difference between the two in the eyes of society?

What society are you living in?

One in which women can have careers and men can be stay at home dads without stigma.

I'm actually genderqueer, so you can guess what option I picked. Trans* people are awesome