NationStates

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:54 am**

Risottia wrote:
Bleckonia wrote:I am an atheist, but I still have morals.
I guess people are born with a moral compass and naturally know what's right and wrong. Also, if it hurts someone (and it's not self defence), then that's immoral.

Do you? I would say so. I think morality has more to do with nurture and society (hence, more local), while ethics is derived from empathy (hence, more "universal" throughout humanity).

I imagine it's more parallel evolution than empathy - i.e. the evolution of cultures, with codes that end up serving the same purposes, so tend to resemble each other fairly closely.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:06 am**

Grave_n_idle wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Do you? I would say so. I think morality has more to do with nurture and society (hence, more local), while ethics is derived from empathy (hence, more "universal" throughout humanity).

I imagine it's more parallel evolution than empathy - i.e. the evolution of cultures, with codes that end up serving the same purposes, so tend to resemble each other fairly closely.

Dunno - some primates tend to develop a sense of "do ut des", even for the mere possibility of a future payback. That's the beginning of a utilitarian ethics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altruism_in_animals

And yes... this is one of those "also, bonobos" posts.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:42 am**

Forbidden In Heaven and Useless In Hell wrote:I've noticed a lot that atheist like to say that the actions of God in the Old Testament were wrong, or that this part of this religion is wrong, or that what this religious group did was wrong. There are a lot of things you could consider wrong in a lot of religions, but I'm wondering how an atheist calls anything wrong or right.

I don't want to start a debate about the existence of god, just this topic. I'm not taking any sides in regards to the existence of God, because I'm kind of in a stage where I don't know enough to make a decision, but I think that there's not any reason for an atheist to call anything wrong. I believe that objective morality can only come from God, and I don't know any atheist who disagree with that. If you believe in completely subjective morality, then how can you call something wrong, when morality is based on whatever the individual thinks?

I'm expecting everyone here to go on a huge diatribe against me, as the history of NSG shows.

Personal morality.

I'd ask on what basis christians call things wrong. That is, how is god's morality somehow superior to mine?

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:38 am**

Person012345 wrote:
Forbidden In Heaven and Useless In Hell wrote:I've noticed a lot that atheist like to say that the actions of God in the Old Testament were wrong, or that this part of this religion is wrong, or that what this religious group did was wrong. There are a lot of things you could consider wrong in a lot of religions, but I'm wondering how an atheist calls anything wrong or right.

I don't want to start a debate about the existence of god, just this topic. I'm not taking any sides in regards to the existence of God, because I'm kind of in a stage where I don't know enough to make a decision, but I think that there's not any reason for an atheist to call anything wrong. I believe that objective morality can only come from God, and I don't know any atheist who disagree with that. If you believe in completely subjective morality, then how can you call something wrong, when morality is based on whatever the individual thinks?

I'm expecting everyone here to go on a huge diatribe against me, as the history of NSG shows.

Personal morality.

I'd ask on what basis christians call things wrong. That is, how is god's morality somehow superior to mine?

I'd imagine it all comes down to Might makes Right.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:40 pm**

Genivaria wrote:
Person012345 wrote:Personal morality.

I'd ask on what basis christians call things wrong. That is, how is god's morality somehow superior to mine?

I'd imagine it all comes down to Might makes Right.

"My god is bigger than your god"? I guess. People who have no god lose automatically.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:44 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Genivaria wrote:I'd imagine it all comes down to Might makes Right.

"My god is bigger than your god"? I guess. People who have no god lose automatically.

Zeus isn't doing much these days, I'm sure he would welcome the work.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:44 pm**

Forbidden In Heaven and Useless In Hell wrote:I've noticed a lot that atheist like to say that the actions of God in the Old Testament were wrong, or that this part of this religion is wrong, or that what this religious group did was wrong. There are a lot of things you could consider wrong in a lot of religions, but I'm wondering how an atheist calls anything wrong or right.

I don't want to start a debate about the existence of god, just this topic. I'm not taking any sides in regards to the existence of God, because I'm kind of in a stage where I don't know enough to make a decision, but I think that there's not any reason for an atheist to call anything wrong. I believe that objective morality can only come from God, and I don't know any atheist who disagree with that. If you believe in completely subjective morality, then how can you call something wrong, when morality is based on whatever the individual thinks?

I'm expecting everyone here to go on a huge diatribe against me, as the history of NSG shows.

So called "christian morals" are just common sense and human ethics.

To say that the idea of god is what made morals is ignorant.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:45 pm**

Person012345 wrote:
Forbidden In Heaven and Useless In Hell wrote:I've noticed a lot that atheist like to say that the actions of God in the Old Testament were wrong, or that this part of this religion is wrong, or that what this religious group did was wrong. There are a lot of things you could consider wrong in a lot of religions, but I'm wondering how an atheist calls anything wrong or right.

I don't want to start a debate about the existence of god, just this topic. I'm not taking any sides in regards to the existence of God, because I'm kind of in a stage where I don't know enough to make a decision, but I think that there's not any reason for an atheist to call anything wrong. I believe that objective morality can only come from God, and I don't know any atheist who disagree with that. If you believe in completely subjective morality, then how can you call something wrong, when morality is based on whatever the individual thinks?

I'm expecting everyone here to go on a huge diatribe against me, as the history of NSG shows.

Personal morality.

I'd ask on what basis christians call things wrong. That is, how is god's morality somehow superior to mine?

Shit, I got ninja'd.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:46 pm**

On the basis of our personal morals.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:52 pm**

If you're an asshole, you're an asshole.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:54 pm**

Mavorpen wrote:If you're an asshole, you're an asshole.

And if your Paragon your Paragon.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:56 pm**

Vousielle wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:"My god is bigger than your god"? I guess. People who have no god lose automatically.

Zeus isn't doing much these days, I'm sure he would welcome the work.

He's retired and living in Miami, why would he want all the grief? Yahweh's spoiled the whole human-god relationship, anyway. It used to be "Do this for me, O Zeus, and I shall sacrifice a bunch of barbeque for you." Now it's all about guilt and having to suck up to the Big Guy.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:57 pm**

Genivaria wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:If you're an asshole, you're an asshole.

And if your Paragon your Paragon.

In all seriousness though, I'm somewhat of a moral nihilist, and all the other moral nihilists I know agree that hurting others is unfavorable.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:58 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Vousielle wrote:
Zeus isn't doing much these days, I'm sure he would welcome the work.

He's retired and living in Miami, why would he want all the grief? Yahweh's spoiled the whole human-god relationship, anyway. It used to be "Do this for me, O Zeus, and I shall sacrifice a bunch of barbeque for you." Now it's all about guilt and having to suck up to the Big Guy.

Hm, I would think that Poseidon is more of a Miami type of guy.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:00 pm**

Mavorpen wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:He's retired and living in Miami, why would he want all the grief? Yahweh's spoiled the whole human-god relationship, anyway. It used to be "Do this for me, O Zeus, and I shall sacrifice a bunch of barbeque for you." Now it's all about guilt and having to suck up to the Big Guy.

Hm, I would think that Poseidon is more of a Miami type of guy.

Poseidon is a dick though, at least Zeus could be friendly on occasion. Other than the whole 'genocide of the heroes' in the Trojan War.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:01 pm**

Mavorpen wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:He's retired and living in Miami, why would he want all the grief? Yahweh's spoiled the whole human-god relationship, anyway. It used to be "Do this for me, O Zeus, and I shall sacrifice a bunch of barbeque for you." Now it's all about guilt and having to suck up to the Big Guy.

Hm, I would think that Poseidon is more of a Miami type of guy.

Poseidon lives in New Zealand. Well, he has a place there. He moves around a lot, especially around the Pacific Rim.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:02 pm**

Vousielle wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Hm, I would think that Poseidon is more of a Miami type of guy.

Poseidon is a dick though, at least Zeus could be friendly on occasion. Other than the whole 'genocide of the heroes' in the Trojan War.

Which is why Poseidon is my favorite god.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:02 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Hm, I would think that Poseidon is more of a Miami type of guy.

Poseidon lives in New Zealand. Well, he has a place there. He moves around a lot, especially around the Pacific Rim.

New Zealand? Woah, never would have expected that.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:04 pm**

Farnhamia wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Hm, I would think that Poseidon is more of a Miami type of guy.

Poseidon lives in New Zealand. Well, he has a place there. He moves around a lot, especially around the Pacific Rim.

Didn't he visit Japan last year?

Personally, I wouldn't mind the life of a retired goddess. But the crone business is booming and I can't quite get out of it yet. I need a suitable successor - how about you?

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:05 pm**

Imsogone wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Poseidon lives in New Zealand. Well, he has a place there. He moves around a lot, especially around the Pacific Rim.

Didn't he visit Japan last year?

Personally, I wouldn't mind the life of a retired goddess. But the crone business is booming and I can't quite get out of it yet. I need a suitable successor - how about you?

That wasn't Poseidon, that was Neptune.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:05 pm**

Imsogone wrote:
Farnhamia wrote:Poseidon lives in New Zealand. Well, he has a place there. He moves around a lot, especially around the Pacific Rim.

Didn't he visit Japan last year?

Personally, I wouldn't mind the life of a retired goddess. But the crone business is booming and I can't quite get out of it yet. I need a suitable successor - how about you?

Thanks, but I do like the retired goddess life. I'm not sure I could keep up the cackling required.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:06 pm**

Mavorpen wrote:
Vousielle wrote:
Poseidon is a dick though, at least Zeus could be friendly on occasion. Other than the whole 'genocide of the heroes' in the Trojan War.

Which is why Poseidon is my favorite god.

What about poor old Odysseus? Poseidon is an ass. Gimme Hades any day, you can count on him in a squeeze and he'll make you rich.

I'd be a Bacchant of Dionysius but I don't think I could tear apart an animal with my bare hands, its too much work.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:07 pm**

Vousielle wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Which is why Poseidon is my favorite god.

What about poor old Odysseus? Poseidon is an ass. Gimme Hades any day, you can count on him in a squeeze and he'll make you rich.

I'd be a Bacchant of Dionysius but I don't think I could tear apart an animal with my bare hands, its too much work.

I'd rather worship Athena. Wisdom is what wins wars, and what ends them quickly.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:08 pm**

Genivaria wrote:
Vousielle wrote:
What about poor old Odysseus? Poseidon is an ass. Gimme Hades any day, you can count on him in a squeeze and he'll make you rich.

I'd be a Bacchant of Dionysius but I don't think I could tear apart an animal with my bare hands, its too much work.

I'd rather worship Athena. Wisdom is what wins wars, and what ends them quickly.

Athy's a nice girl, though a trifle butch for my tastes.

Posted: **Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:09 pm**

Person012345 wrote:
Forbidden In Heaven and Useless In Hell wrote:I've noticed a lot that atheist like to say that the actions of God in the Old Testament were wrong, or that this part of this religion is wrong, or that what this religious group did was wrong. There are a lot of things you could consider wrong in a lot of religions, but I'm wondering how an atheist calls anything wrong or right.

I don't want to start a debate about the existence of god, just this topic. I'm not taking any sides in regards to the existence of God, because I'm kind of in a stage where I don't know enough to make a decision, but I think that there's not any reason for an atheist to call anything wrong. I believe that objective morality can only come from God, and I don't know any atheist who disagree with that. If you believe in completely subjective morality, then how can you call something wrong, when morality is based on whatever the individual thinks?

I'm expecting everyone here to go on a huge diatribe against me, as the history of NSG shows.

Personal morality.

I'd ask on what basis christians call things wrong. That is, how is god's morality somehow superior to mine?

I can't really say anything from a Christian perspective, because I'm not a Christian.

NationStates

On what grounds do atheist call things wrong?