The Wingnut Singularity

[Gauthier]

So what your saying is that the right are Unmada? So carried away in their madness that they see alternate ideas as nothing more than childish attempts to lie to them to sway them from the true course and thus insulting their intelligence?

That could explain a lot.

Worse. The GOP are Lemurians. Take that as you will.

[Sulfar]

So what your saying is that the right are Unmada? So carried away in their madness that they see alternate ideas as nothing more than childish attempts to lie to them to sway them from the true course and thus insulting their intelligence?

That could explain a lot.

Worse. The GOP are Lemurians. Take that as you will.

Stop complimenting the GOP, dude
</troll>

[Forster Keys]

Oh. The Republicans... How has such a massive right wing slant developed over such a short time?

The equivalent party in terms of policy here in Australia would have to be the Christian Democrats. Though to nitpick perhaps the Republicans aren't so overtly anti-immigrant, and the Christian Democrats aren't rabidly pro free market. Australians and Americans are free to correct me if I'm inaccurate, but here's their policy summary on wiki.

The party exists to support Christian representation in every level of government – Federal, State and Local.[1]

The party claims to support policies that promote Christian values, are supportive of family values, protective of children and their rights including those of unborn children, and policies that are protective of established Australian values and systems, inclusive of a requirement that immigrants to Australia demonstrate a desire to learn English.[1][2]

The party opposes abortion, euthanasia, pornography, homosexuality, adultery, incest, and Islam, most notably sharia law.[1][2][3][4]

They're only substantial support is in NSW. Where they have two members in the state's upper house. They poll at just 3% of the vote.

Just a little perspective.

[Yootwopia]

Oh. The Republicans... How has such a massive right wing slant developed over such a short time?

9/11 and the very Straussian endorsement of 'Christian Renewal' by powerful figures within the GOP establishment in the 2000s, followed by basically everything being wrong about Obama on a surface level in the 2010s giving credence to just about any other viewpoint that exists.

[Forster Keys]

Oh. The Republicans... How has such a massive right wing slant developed over such a short time?

9/11 and the very Straussian endorsement of 'Christian Renewal' by powerful figures within the GOP establishment in the 2000s, followed by basically everything being wrong about Obama on a surface level in the 2010s giving credence to just about any other viewpoint that exists.

Well that seems as good an answer as any I've heard. Except what do you mean by Straussian?

[Yootwopia]

9/11 and the very Straussian endorsement of 'Christian Renewal' by powerful figures within the GOP establishment in the 2000s, followed by basically everything being wrong about Obama on a surface level in the 2010s giving credence to just about any other viewpoint that exists.

Well that seems as good an answer as any I've heard. Except what do you mean by Straussian?

Leo Strauss, who is really the intellectual base of the neoconservative movement, talked about resurrecting the ideas of Plato about the "noble lie". In his view, it wasn't remotely important about whether the people in the neoconservative movement actually gave any fucks about Christianity, so long as they were able to channel the Christian masses to vote for them and work towards the objectives of the neoconservatives.

[Forster Keys]

Well that seems as good an answer as any I've heard. Except what do you mean by Straussian?

Leo Strauss, who is really the intellectual base of the neoconservative movement, talked about resurrecting the ideas of Plato about the "noble lie". In his view, it wasn't remotely important about whether the people in the neoconservative movement actually gave any fucks about Christianity, so long as they were able to channel the Christian masses to vote for them and work towards the objectives of the neoconservatives.

Thanks. Well that's fantastic.

[Yootwopia]

Yep well there are two real answers to the problem - either destroy the Christian movement somehow (not simple, given that it has powerful controls and is relatively amorphous but united at the same time, boo-urns), or make the Democrats the party of the Christian left and give a strong theological basis to government programmes decried as 'socialist'.

[Forster Keys]

Yep well there are two real answers to the problem - either destroy the Christian movement somehow (not simple, given that it has powerful controls and is relatively amorphous but united at the same time, boo-urns), or make the Democrats the party of the Christian left and give a strong theological basis to government programmes decried as 'socialist'.

Not a bad idea in some ways. The Old Testament is all death and fire and begatting, but the New Testament is practically littered with pro-Socialist lines and ideals.

[Lizardiar]

Would it be possible for a right-leaning individual to give an opinion or will it just be shut down with several
"YOU REPUBLICAN, YOU IS TEH STUPID AND EBIL!"


The Republican party is judged for few individuals, not the enitre party. Simply because one does not agree with you doesn't mean they are stupid, radical, or insane. I support Ron Paul, but I'm not going to go out, bang on every door at 4 AM to remind people to vote for him. No, I am going to advocate for him with groups of friends or other people and go vote. Sanotrum, i don't agree with, but I don't consider him a radical, he has some pretty out-there ideas and beliefs, but I'm not going to just be against him because of the things he says. All politicians are flawed. That's our system. Obama, Pelosi, and Biden have made mistakes and said the wrong things, yet there isn't an outstanding hatred of them. There isn't nitpicking on the scale of the ones agaisnt the Right-leaning, or republican individuals.
An arguement without debate is just a statement.

[Yootwopia]

Sanotrum, i don't agree with, but I don't consider him a radical, he has some pretty out-there ideas and beliefs, but I'm not going to just be against him because of the things he says.

If you don't agree with someone's viewpoints and they are aiming to gain power, you should absolutely be against him because of the things he says...

[Imsogone]

Would it be possible for a right-leaning individual to give an opinion or will it just be shut down with several
"YOU REPUBLICAN, YOU IS TEH STUPID AND EBIL!"


The Republican party is judged for few individuals, not the enitre party. Simply because one does not agree with you doesn't mean they are stupid, radical, or insane. I support Ron Paul, but I'm not going to go out, bang on every door at 4 AM to remind people to vote for him. No, I am going to advocate for him with groups of friends or other people and go vote. Sanotrum, i don't agree with, but I don't consider him a radical, he has some pretty out-there ideas and beliefs, but I'm not going to just be against him because of the things he says. All politicians are flawed. That's our system. Obama, Pelosi, and Biden have made mistakes and said the wrong things, yet there isn't an outstanding hatred of them. There isn't nitpicking on the scale of the ones agaisnt the Right-leaning, or republican individuals.
An arguement without debate is just a statement.

Most of us aren't speaking about "mainstream" Republicans, who have been largely silenced by the idiot faction, we're actually speaking about the idiot faction who are the ones fielding the candidates and who are claiming to be the sole and only representatives of the "one, true Republican Party". I've stated before, I'm a registered Republican, my Republican ideals stem from the '50s and '60s - Eisenhower, Goldwater - those conservatives who are now the touchstone for the liberal Republican - we're an endangered species and ought, incidentally, to be protected.

[Daistallia 2104]

Oh. The Republicans... How has such a massive right wing slant developed over such a short time?

9/11 and the very Straussian endorsement of 'Christian Renewal' by powerful figures within the GOP establishment in the 2000s, followed by basically everything being wrong about Obama on a surface level in the 2010s giving credence to just about any other viewpoint that exists.

The GOP has been developing this direction since the late 60s rather than since 9/11. The statr was with Nixon's Southern Strategy, the Dixiecrats move to the GOP, and that realignment. The sexual counter-revolution of the 70s also added to movement conservatism. The Neocon attempt to hijack it has basically failed.

[Wikkiwallana]

-snip-I support Ron Paul

You really shouldn't.

-snip- Obama, Pelosi, and Biden have made mistakes and said the wrong things, yet there isn't an outstanding hatred of them. There isn't nitpicking on the scale of the ones agaisnt the Right-leaning, or republican individuals.

Bet you a dollar? Although I will give you Biden, but that's because no one cares about him.

[Cameroi]

mack renolds once wrote a story called five way secret agent.
he speculated long before all of this happened.
there is an economic force behind wingnuttery. it isn't some mystical demon however. simply organized crime.
all dressed up in corporate legitimacy.
which could give a rat less about any nation, belief, nor ideology.
but loves to accuse anyone who refuses to not see it for what it is, of lacking one or more of them.
as if nationalism wasn't a false god to begin with, or it was somehow the little green pieces of paper that were unhappy.

[Yootwopia]

9/11 and the very Straussian endorsement of 'Christian Renewal' by powerful figures within the GOP establishment in the 2000s, followed by basically everything being wrong about Obama on a surface level in the 2010s giving credence to just about any other viewpoint that exists.

The GOP has been developing this direction since the late 60s rather than since 9/11. The statr was with Nixon's Southern Strategy, the Dixiecrats move to the GOP, and that realignment. The sexual counter-revolution of the 70s also added to movement conservatism. The Neocon attempt to hijack it has basically failed.

Judging by the amount of hicks cheering at the prospect of invading Iran over this nuclear thing, I'm not sure I agree.

[Free Soviets]

The Republican party is judged for few individuals, not the enitre party. Simply because one does not agree with you doesn't mean they are stupid, radical, or insane.

i'm judging based on the words and actions of elected officials, movement leaders, polling data, and voting patterns. and i'm not simply concerned about disagreement. i'm talking about the rapidly changing and utterly detached-from-reality nature of conservative positions and conspiracy theories, and the cult-like requirements of toeing the party line that the base imposes on public figures in the movement.

this ain't nutpicking. if you willingly choose to associate with these lunatics, you have no defense.

Sanotrum, i don't agree with, but I don't consider him a radical, he has some pretty out-there ideas and beliefs, but I'm not going to just be against him because of the things he says.

this seems incoherent to me. so you think he has ideas that are 'pretty out-there' that you don't agree with, but that doesn't make him a radical and you don't oppose him? so what would make him a radical? and what reason would there be to oppose him other than disagreeing with him ?

[Fluffy Coyotes]

Would it be possible for a right-leaning individual to give an opinion or will it just be shut down with several
"YOU REPUBLICAN, YOU IS TEH STUPID AND EBIL!"


The Republican party is judged for few individuals, not the enitre party. Simply because one does not agree with you doesn't mean they are stupid, radical, or insane. I support Ron Paul, but I'm not going to go out, bang on every door at 4 AM to remind people to vote for him. No, I am going to advocate for him with groups of friends or other people and go vote. Sanotrum, i don't agree with, but I don't consider him a radical, he has some pretty out-there ideas and beliefs, but I'm not going to just be against him because of the things he says. All politicians are flawed. That's our system. Obama, Pelosi, and Biden have made mistakes and said the wrong things, yet there isn't an outstanding hatred of them. There isn't nitpicking on the scale of the ones agaisnt the Right-leaning, or republican individuals.
An arguement without debate is just a statement.

Most of us aren't speaking about "mainstream" Republicans, who have been largely silenced by the idiot faction, we're actually speaking about the idiot faction who are the ones fielding the candidates and who are claiming to be the sole and only representatives of the "one, true Republican Party". I've stated before, I'm a registered Republican, my Republican ideals stem from the '50s and '60s - Eisenhower, Goldwater - those conservatives who are now the touchstone for the liberal Republican - we're an endangered species and ought, incidentally, to be protected.

Why not just give up on the Republican party then?

Sanotrum, i don't agree with, but I don't consider him a radical, he has some pretty out-there ideas and beliefs, but I'm not going to just be against him because of the things he says.

this seems incoherent to me. so you think he has ideas that are 'pretty out-there' that you don't agree with, but that doesn't make him a radical and you don't oppose him? so what would make him a radical? and what reason would there be to oppose him other than disagreeing with him ?

Perceiving him as insincere in his beliefs?

[Raeyh]

Why not just give up on the Republican party then?

There is no alternate conservative party for him to vote for, obviously.

[Fluffy Coyotes]

Why not just give up on the Republican party then?

There is no alternate conservative party for him to vote for, obviously.

Ever heard of the Libertarian party? Or the Constitution party?

[Raeyh]

Ever heard of the Libertarian party? Or the Constitution party?

Third party candidates never get elected. He might as well vote Democratic, it would have the same effect.

[Ridicularia]

Most of us aren't speaking about "mainstream" Republicans, who have been largely silenced by the idiot faction, we're actually speaking about the idiot faction who are the ones fielding the candidates and who are claiming to be the sole and only representatives of the "one, true Republican Party". I've stated before, I'm a registered Republican, my Republican ideals stem from the '50s and '60s - Eisenhower, Goldwater - those conservatives who are now the touchstone for the liberal Republican - we're an endangered species and ought, incidentally, to be protected.

I demand a protected wetland for myself and constant EPA monitoring to make sure I don't get too polluted.

And yes, it's rather unfortunate that the radical ones are so loud.

[Fluffy Coyotes]

Ever heard of the Libertarian party? Or the Constitution party?

Third party candidates never get elected. He might as well vote Democratic, it would have the same effect.

Not with that attitude. In Canada, Jack Layton used to be third party but made it to 2nd place last election.

The value of all votes at a collective level depends on what the average voter does at an individual level. Saying "that vote would have the same effect, so I may as well not vote for X party" is like saying "my vote won't have much effect, so I may as well not vote at all."

[Raeyh]

The value of all votes at a collective level depends on what the average voter does at an individual level. Saying "that vote would have the same effect, so I may as well not vote for X party" is like saying "my vote won't have much effect, so I may as well not vote at all."

That's actually why voter apathy is so high. It isn't because they don't care who is elected, it's because they feel disenfranchised and unable to have a real say in who gets elected.

[Farnhamia]

Third party candidates never get elected. He might as well vote Democratic, it would have the same effect.

Not with that attitude. In Canada, Jack Layton came pretty close.

The value of all votes at a collective level depends on what the average voter does at an individual level. Saying "that vote would have the same effect, so I may as well not vote for X party" is like saying "my vote won't have much effect, so I may as well not vote at all."

There are several reasons minor parties remain minor. One is that the Democrats and Republicans have, in many states, rigged the process of getting on the ballot in their favor. Another reason is that minor parties seem to think that all they have to do is run for President and people will flock to them. What happens is, people have no idea who they are and what they stand for, and ignore them. Instead of doing that - and I feel like a broken record with this - they should try to build public awareness by running for state and local offices. Grassroots only develop when you put down some seed.

Perhaps the most critical obstacle to minor parties is the inclusiveness of the GOP and the Democrats. Even with the capture of the GOP by its radical right, it is still more inclusive that the Libertarians or the Constitution Party will ever be.