KONY 2012

[Forsher]

Because the Pope and Khameni don't kidnap children and force them to use automatic weaponry such as rifles against enemies of the state as full-time alternatives to an adult volunteer militia.

So we're not issuing arrest warrants to the governments of Rwanda, Democratic Republic of Congo and other countries for actively deploying child soliders? Are we not going to arrest the leaders of communist guerilla group FARC for actively using child soldiers in attacks against regular Colombian forces?

Something tells me arresting Kony won't make a difference at all.

People need a cause. No-one ever said it had to mean something in the big book.

[Arumdaum]

Watched the video, and it made me want to do something. I want to buy their action kit, but I don't have the money.

It also made me feel good about myself, since I remember reading his wikipedia page a few years back and thus I knew him. Bwahaha!

[Meowfoundland]

What's with all this sudden Kony stuff? He's been an evil bastard for years. What changed?

[Vortiaganica]

What's with all this sudden Kony stuff? He's been an evil bastard for years. What changed?

Public opinion I guess?

There is a hero for every cause.

Also, recency bias. You find out about something bad Kony did in 2012, suddenly everything in 2011 by, say, EvilDictator69 seems so distant and resolved in comparison. That's human psychology.

[Saint Jade IV]

What's with all this sudden Kony stuff? He's been an evil bastard for years. What changed?

Be careful with that. I copped a mouthful on Facebook over saying pretty much that. Standard "Have you even watched the movie?" "What have you done if you've known about it for so long" gobshite.

[Gravonia]

What's with all this sudden Kony stuff? He's been an evil bastard for years. What changed?

Public opinion I guess?

There is a hero for every cause.

Also, recency bias. You find out about something bad Kony did in 2012, suddenly everything in 2011 by, say, EvilDictator69 seems so distant and resolved in comparison. That's human psychology.

Was it shown on TV in America or something? What suddenly rattled the cages of NS general last night?

[Second Korean Empire]

If people really wanted to make a difference in Africa, they would do two things: contribute to the African Agricultural Fund, which aims to innovate and consolidate agricultural/farming practices in Africa to the point where 10 cents donated to the Fund is reportedly worth $1 in short-term aid. They would also seek to make contributions towards the improvement of standards of education and living in impoverished parts of Africa, so that the children have more of a chance of becoming respectable, tolerant and good citizens instead of madmen like Kony. Long-term development must always take precedent over the correction of problems in the short term.

If you want to remove a weed from a garden, you don't just chop off whatever's sticking above the ground: you destroy it roots and all. The same logic applies to poverty and extremism not only in Africa, but all over the world.

[United Coronado]

Why do we need to pressure governments to arrest him? In all seriousness I want to know why people think that our politicians and intelligence personnel are blissfully unaware of Kony's doings. Considering that he has been wanted by the ICC since 2005 and on the United States' most wanted list since 2008, what more attention needs to be placed on Kony?

Take Osama bin Laden. Everyone knew who he was. Everyone hated him. Everyone wanted him found. Didn't make it any easier did it?

The fact is we don't need public support against Kony, we need his wherabouts. Until that happens, nothing can be done and no amount of public support will alter that fact.

[Vitaphone Racing]

What's with all this sudden Kony stuff? He's been an evil bastard for years. What changed?

Be careful with that. I copped a mouthful on Facebook over saying pretty much that. Standard "Have you even watched the movie?" "What have you done if you've known about it for so long" gobshite.

This is why I deleted facebook. I guarantee you that every one of the Kony Krew bandwagoned after watching the movie, have never heard of Kony or the LRA previously and can't possibly understand how a civil rights movement could be flawed.

Which is why I come to NSG for reasonable debate...

[Yes Im Biop]

Be careful with that. I copped a mouthful on Facebook over saying pretty much that. Standard "Have you even watched the movie?" "What have you done if you've known about it for so long" gobshite.

This is why I deleted facebook. I guarantee you that every one of the Kony Krew bandwagoned after watching the movie, have never heard of Kony or the LRA previously and can't possibly understand how a civil rights movement could be flawed.

Which is why I come to NSG for reasonable debate...

Sorry. But i must


Why are you here?

[Celephais]

This is why I deleted facebook. I guarantee you that every one of the Kony Krew bandwagoned after watching the movie, have never heard of Kony or the LRA previously and can't possibly understand how a civil rights movement could be flawed.

Which is why I come to NSG for reasonable debate...

My housemate five minutes ago asked me what this KONY 2012 thing could be about and that he wanted to look it up, I said I didn't know but it might be to do with the Ugandan warlord Joseph Kony… looks like I was right should I join the movement to give it some credibility?

There was actually quite a lot of publicity surrounding the LRA some years back.

[The Merchant Republics]

And this, gentlemen, is what Christianism causes. Millions of deaths, thousands of abuses, wars, persecutions, etc. just because of "the word" of a being that don't even exist.

Despite the name, the LRA is not recognized to be fighting for any religious cause. Indeed the International Crisis Group concluded that the motives of the group were apparently without cause, the entire motivation is mostly in support of their leader Kony.

They've at one time or another claimed to be fighting for religious, democratic and nationalistic goals, none of this appears to be fully true.

Calling the LRA a Christian Extremist Group is about as accurate as calling the American Confederacy a Christian rebellion. It is almost certainly true that the members and leadership at least claim to be Christians, but they are not using Christianity as a justification for war.

[Fionnuala_Saoirse]

What's with all this sudden Kony stuff? He's been an evil bastard for years. What changed?

Be careful with that. I copped a mouthful on Facebook over saying pretty much that.

Probably because it's a highly dickish comment.

[Celephais]

Despite the name, the LRA is not recognized to be fighting for any religious cause. Indeed the International Crisis Group concluded that the motives of the group were apparently without cause, the entire motivation is mostly in support of their leader Kony.

They've at one time or another claimed to be fighting for religious, democratic and nationalistic goals, none of this appears to be fully true.

Calling the LRA a Christian Extremist Group is about as accurate as calling the American Confederacy a Christian rebellion. It is almost certainly true that the members and leadership at least claim to be Christians, but they are not using Christianity as a justification for war.

What you say is absolutely true, but it's not going to stop nerds with issues about being forced to go to church as kids from carrying on about Christianity similar to their counterparts linking everything any communist anywhere did with atheism. People like having grand narratives to shove everything into.

Probably because it's a highly dickish comment.

Nah it's fine as questions go. I remember there being a big furore over the LRA like ten years ago, so asking what's happened to suddenly bring it into the spotlight -is- a fair question.

[The Corparation]

This is why I deleted facebook. I guarantee you that every one of the Kony Krew bandwagoned after watching the movie, have never heard of Kony or the LRA previously and can't possibly understand how a civil rights movement could be flawed.

Which is why I come to NSG for reasonable debate...

My housemate five minutes ago asked me what this KONY 2012 thing could be about and that he wanted to look it up, I said I didn't know but it might be to do with the Ugandan warlord Joseph Kony… looks like I was right should I join the movement to give it some credibility?

There was actually quite a lot of publicity surrounding the LRA some years back.

I do believe the last time they got major attention was when Obama sent 100 advisers to Uganda to assist their government in the fight against him. Rush Limbaugh in his standard bout of stupidity couldn't be bothered to do even a Google search and bashed Obama for sending people to fight Christians that are killing muslims.

[Jakaragua]

Woah, now. Suddenly the Ugandan government are the good guys now? Suddenly we've all gone back to the mindset that if the US marches in everything will be sparkly happy and no more blood will ever be shed? That one evildoer's fate will inspire dozens of other evildoers across Africa to have a change of heart and stop their atrocities? Pu-lease.

To anyone who is unfamiliar with the war in the northern Uganda which started way back in 1986 when Museveni had just come to power, Museveni's quest to prosecute Kony might sound like the most brilliant idea for a very responsible person. However, to those who have lived through the years and experienced atrocities perpetrated by both the rebels and the Ugandan army, the Uganda People's Defense Forces (UPDF), Museveni is just as criminal as the Kony he trying to prosecute.

Since 1986, Museveni's army has been known to have committed some of the worst atrocities on the ethnic Acholi people who occupy the regions of Gulu, Kitgum and Pader. The UPDF, also formerly known as the National Resistance Army (NRA) became infamous for burning civilians alive in huts, killings, and the rapes of both women and men in what the Acholi called tek gungu. Tek Gungu referred to rape of men and women by Museveni's soldiers who would force a man or woman to kneel down (gungu) before the rape is committed against the male or female victim. These rape incidents have been documented by Human Rights Watch and yet remains ignored by most so-called mainstream media. Museveni, despite his army's atrocities remains a Western "darling."

The period 1987-1988 was the worse in the history of the Acholi and it was also at that time that Museveni's army intensified atrocities on the civilians. This was a period that Museveni declared a state of emergency. He entrusted his commanders like his brother Salim Saleh and Major General David Tinyefunza to help him do the job. Their atrocities included the terrible forcing of Acholi civilians in a pit dug into the earth in a place called Bur Coro. The top of the pit was then covered with soil and grass which was then set ablaze. The civilians slowly suffocated from the smoke. Such sadistic killers have never been punished.

Later, the army exported such atrocities into Teso in Eastern Uganda. In an incident which was also documented by international human rights agencies, people were forced into a train wagon in a place called Amakura and were suffocated. This incident is known in Uganda as the Amakura massacre. To make it more effective and unknown to the international community, Museveni banned media reporting on war and no journalists were allowed to enter the war zone.

By 1990, Museveni had accomplished most of what he wanted, leaving tens of thousands of Acholi dead and thousands languishing in Luzira prison for alleged treason. All these are well documented and still remain fresh in the minds of the Acholi who had trusted Museveni and thought he would treat them as citizens of Uganda rather than his adversaries.

As if his terror was not enough, in 1996 Museveni declared a presidential order that stipulated that all local Acholi living in their homes in the villages be forcefully moved into concentration camps to be surrounded by government troops ostensibly to guard them against LRA rebels' atrocities. Where else in the world but in Africa would the international community today stand for such gross violation of human rights.

Museveni's troops immediately started beating up locals to run to the camps. They burnt down crops and houses of the locals so that they would not go back to their homes. The result was the creation of communal homelessness for over 500,000 people who up to now, have no permanent home, and live in some of the worse human conditions the world. Although Museveni prefers to call the camps "Protected Camps," the locals who live there know it as a concentration camp in which terror reigns and individual freedoms don't exist.

Government soldiers claiming to be guarding these camps are well known for their atrocities on the hapless civilians. They rape the women and have contributed to the increase in the rate of HIV/AIDs - now the highest in that region.

These are just few recorded incidents and yet the majority remained unreported. Similarly, the government is indiscriminately using its Helicopter gunship and night-guided vision technology to try to spot and kill the LRA rebels. However, the majority of the unfortunate victims are innocent civilians.

http://www.afrol.com/articles/11238

Seriously, fuck Invisible Children and their support for an army that uses rape as a weapon.

[Alyakia]

Woah, now. Suddenly the Ugandan government are the good guys now? Suddenly we've all gone back to the mindset that if the US marches in everything will be sparkly happy and no more blood will ever be shed? That one evildoer's fate will inspire dozens of other evildoers across Africa to have a change of heart and stop their atrocities? Pu-lease.

To anyone who is unfamiliar with the war in the northern Uganda which started way back in 1986 when Museveni had just come to power, Museveni's quest to prosecute Kony might sound like the most brilliant idea for a very responsible person. However, to those who have lived through the years and experienced atrocities perpetrated by both the rebels and the Ugandan army, the Uganda People's Defense Forces (UPDF), Museveni is just as criminal as the Kony he trying to prosecute.

Since 1986, Museveni's army has been known to have committed some of the worst atrocities on the ethnic Acholi people who occupy the regions of Gulu, Kitgum and Pader. The UPDF, also formerly known as the National Resistance Army (NRA) became infamous for burning civilians alive in huts, killings, and the rapes of both women and men in what the Acholi called tek gungu. Tek Gungu referred to rape of men and women by Museveni's soldiers who would force a man or woman to kneel down (gungu) before the rape is committed against the male or female victim. These rape incidents have been documented by Human Rights Watch and yet remains ignored by most so-called mainstream media. Museveni, despite his army's atrocities remains a Western "darling."

The period 1987-1988 was the worse in the history of the Acholi and it was also at that time that Museveni's army intensified atrocities on the civilians. This was a period that Museveni declared a state of emergency. He entrusted his commanders like his brother Salim Saleh and Major General David Tinyefunza to help him do the job. Their atrocities included the terrible forcing of Acholi civilians in a pit dug into the earth in a place called Bur Coro. The top of the pit was then covered with soil and grass which was then set ablaze. The civilians slowly suffocated from the smoke. Such sadistic killers have never been punished.

Later, the army exported such atrocities into Teso in Eastern Uganda. In an incident which was also documented by international human rights agencies, people were forced into a train wagon in a place called Amakura and were suffocated. This incident is known in Uganda as the Amakura massacre. To make it more effective and unknown to the international community, Museveni banned media reporting on war and no journalists were allowed to enter the war zone.

By 1990, Museveni had accomplished most of what he wanted, leaving tens of thousands of Acholi dead and thousands languishing in Luzira prison for alleged treason. All these are well documented and still remain fresh in the minds of the Acholi who had trusted Museveni and thought he would treat them as citizens of Uganda rather than his adversaries.

As if his terror was not enough, in 1996 Museveni declared a presidential order that stipulated that all local Acholi living in their homes in the villages be forcefully moved into concentration camps to be surrounded by government troops ostensibly to guard them against LRA rebels' atrocities. Where else in the world but in Africa would the international community today stand for such gross violation of human rights.

Museveni's troops immediately started beating up locals to run to the camps. They burnt down crops and houses of the locals so that they would not go back to their homes. The result was the creation of communal homelessness for over 500,000 people who up to now, have no permanent home, and live in some of the worse human conditions the world. Although Museveni prefers to call the camps "Protected Camps," the locals who live there know it as a concentration camp in which terror reigns and individual freedoms don't exist.

Government soldiers claiming to be guarding these camps are well known for their atrocities on the hapless civilians. They rape the women and have contributed to the increase in the rate of HIV/AIDs - now the highest in that region.

These are just few recorded incidents and yet the majority remained unreported. Similarly, the government is indiscriminately using its Helicopter gunship and night-guided vision technology to try to spot and kill the LRA rebels. However, the majority of the unfortunate victims are innocent civilians.

http://www.afrol.com/articles/11238

Seriously, fuck Invisible Children and their support for an army that uses rape as a weapon.

i did a quick search to see if anyone had posted this yet, but this seems close enough so i'll tack into your post!

Military intervention may or may not be the right idea, but people supporting KONY 2012 probably don’t realize they’re supporting the Ugandan military who are themselves raping and looting away. If people know this and still support Invisible Children because they feel it’s the best solution based on their knowledge and research, I have no issue with that. But I don’t think most people are in that position, and that’s a problem.

[Orcoa]

I'm all for taking Kony into Justice! Let us purge his flith from this world!

[Calenhardon]

Okay, Kony is an evil asshole who needs to die, preferably as slowly and painfully as possible. BUT...

Does anyone seriously think that a bunch of middle-class white kids from thousands of miles away putting up posters is going to solve anything, much less bring Kony to justice sometime in the next 9 months? Forgive me, but I see this as just more do-gooderism trying to "do something" without barely any idea what is possible, what is achievable, what the unintended consequences of their actions might be, and what to do with the mess that will still exist even if/when Kony is killed. Its not like he doesn't have subordinates who aren't just as evil as he is. Its not like there won't be plenty more militias (or national armies) capable of fucking people over. These guys actually remind me of the American abolitionists who closed up shop immediately after the end of slavery, as if that were the only problem and everything would be fine and dandy afterwards. Ok, some of that was probably unfair, but I have serious issues with overly idealistic American kids who think that if only the US would "do something" all the world's problems would be solved. /rant.

[Thatius]

My FB is blowing up with people sharing that video and talking about it.
Already have events I'm invited to about sharing the message.
Can't go on YouTube without seeing KONY 2012.

This has caught fire pretty quick..

[Albertasby]

I'm very supportive of the video and its causes. I have bought the kit and am organising the Cover The Night event in my home town.

To support the event, I am delivering assemblies in my school to each and every individual, and going into my town centre to deliver flyers before the event to get the message out there. And on the 20th of April, I am putting posters wherever I can!

One extremely positive thing is how actively involved young people are! I'm a young person (17) and its making me proud to be part of this generation for once!

[Aelosia]

Bought the kit today.

I'd think it is better to directly ask one of these two things:

1.- How much is the cost of a Seal Team Six intervention. I'm willing to pay the expenses. Yet again, I know this kind of direct interventionism is not called for. In any case, how much for paying for an old AWACS and a pair of predator UAVs? Yeah, I know, this is more likely not possible.

So, 2.-

2.- How much it takes to hire two or three dozen of South Afrikan mercenaries, give them helicopters, equipment and send them on a bounty hunt? Could money be raised more directly for this Kony endevour?

Sorry I do not trust politicians, and I also do not think a handful of advisors can pull this out. However, as I said, I bought the kit. I'd pay gladfully 100 Euros for either option 1 or 2.

[Genivaria]

I think this would be the only modern war I would support. Kony needs to be stopped, either by a bullet to the head, or arresting him.

Thats the Spirit! I used to be in the Invisible Children's club back in high school.

[Yes Im Biop]

Dont know who he is. But is he is using Children to fight wars i consider him a Pedofidle. I Say find him and blow his to hell with a Tomahawk.

[Calenhardon]

Bought the kit today.

I'd think it is better to directly ask one of these two things:

1.- How much is the cost of a Seal Team Six intervention. I'm willing to pay the expenses. Yet again, I know this kind of direct interventionism is not called for. In any case, how much for paying for an old AWACS and a pair of predator UAVs? Yeah, I know, this is more likely not possible.

So, 2.-

2.- How much it takes to hire two or three dozen of South Afrikan mercenaries, give them helicopters, equipment and send them on a bounty hunt? Could money be raised more directly for this Kony endevour?

Sorry I do not trust politicians, and I also do not think a handful of advisors can pull this out. However, as I said, I bought the kit. I'd pay gladfully 100 Euros for either option 1 or 2.

1) First, Seal Team Six has to find the guy, which is rather difficult. AWACS is primarily a radar platform, not of much use against small forces of ground troops. Maybe some electronic warfare capabilities, but I doubt Kony stays in constant radio communication with his local forces. Again, this is an African militia, not a Warsaw Pact armored division. This is not the kind of battle American troops are trained or equipped to fight, except for a very small number of special forces.
2) Because ten minutes after they get paid, your African mercenaries are going to set up their own little country on some God-forsaken edge of the DRC and be just as bad as Kony. Maybe worse, if they get their hands on any significant mineral wealth.