ANZG: The Trans-Tasman Thread

[Jafas United]

Sorry but the high dollar is to do with government policies or rather economic inaction.

Explain.

It's not the government's fault that companies are set up in such a way that high exchange rates makes them less viable. If there was a method that would lower the value of the dollar without seriously destabilising the economy, it would have been used years ago. But there isn't.

The government's role is to make the environment friendly for businesses, this is a state capitalist system

State capitalism? Are you saying we should become like Singapore or China? What on earth are you talking about?

You also realise that New Zealand is ranked third in the world for ease of doing business, right?

You can't grow an economy by allowing unemployment to spiral out of control

And which major party actually wants to see unemployment to increase? Enlighten my silly neoliberal mind. Please.

you cannot grow an economy by cutting education spending and sacking tens of thousands of people (they spend money, which in turn stimulates the economy; and generates tax revenue).

And just where do you expect all these jobs to be? Where? What industries? We are all putting people out of work everyday. You shop online - there goes the retail sector. You bank online - there go the clerks. You want cheaper televisions, fridges, computers etc, jobs are outsourced to cheaper parts of the world. Where do you think these jobs are going to come from?

I am as guilty as everyone on this, but God, get some perspective and stop blaming the party you hate just because it's the trendy thing to do.

Government jobs aren't the answer to everything. In most cases, they're not. It's just people being paid for by other people's taxes. it makes no difference.

That is why the stimulus has saved the US economy and created jobs, whereas NZ austerity has done nothing

Now I'm starting to worry for you. New Zealand is forecast to grow at 2.2% this year and over 3% next year, almost double that of most advanced economies. The US on the other hand, is forecast to barely make 2% next year.

Our credit rating is AA+ and is constantly confirmed for a positive outlook.

You keep saying "austerity" as we're in some severe economic situation where the government has to take deep cuts. We're not. Kindly stop with the misleading exaggeration.

the effect being that any recovery is too slow and cannot keep pace with mounting debt. The debt is at such levels that only a change of government could hope to fix it,

Oh for Christ's sake, it's one of the lowest in the developed world. Enough with the hyperbole.

If you compare NZ's economic indicators with all other OECD countries, we doing better than most. Our performance is positive and our outlook even better.

fortunately 'the left' as you call it is rising in the polls.

It is? National is comfortably ahead of Labour and John Key is miles ahead of David Shearer as preferred PM.

I will be glad to see John Key pack his bags back to Auckland, he can share a home with Ruthanasia

I'd hate to remind you that Ruthanasia was merely a continuation of your beloved Rogernomics.

and when Labour, NZ First and the Greens pour billions into the economy and education to create jobs; that is when the true recovery will began

So you want another Clark/Cullen style government with reckless spending to the extent that it cannot be politically unwound without severe economic repercussions?

Earlier in this thread you were hoping that eventually Labour would die out. Now you're hailing them as saviours from the wicked John Key. Why the change of heart?

By the way, we are already undertaking significant infrastructure projects which most developed economies can only dream of doing.

An economist friend of mine believes that the NZ banks are set to collapse, because the profits are too high and that reveals massive flaws in the NZ economy.

Except for the fact that NZ banks have a positive outlook, as confirmed by credit agencies?

And the reason why banks are taking in large profits is because the banking sector is relatively stable. What kind of a pseudo-economist is your friend?

National is a party for people who hate the disabled and view them as refuse (they cut the funding for disabled in schools), hate the unemployed with more venom that Romney is capable of, hate kids (closes their schools and cuts cooking and skills classes), want to destroy the environment (mining national parks for 1% royalty while foreign corporates take 99%), support creationism (charter schools) and believe in the free market myth.

Here we go. I knew it wouldn't be long before you'd spurt some sensationalist tosh. Cutting funding does not equal to hating children and the disabled. Allowing charter schools does not equal to being a creationist. How on earth did you come to that?

God, the above post is no different to the people who say Obama is a Communist or Merkel a Nazi. Do you realise how much credibility your argument has lost due to that?

Your schools funding claim is utter crap. You completely ignore the extra $1 billion that will be pumped into schools. You ignore the new schools to be built. You probably think class sizes will increase due to schools mergers, which is again is crap because the schools that will merge will get more classes and teachers.

But, who am I to tell you that. John Campbell has told you everything you need to know about school closures and how John Key is the spawn of Satan, didn't he?

I am close to packing my bags,

Out of curiosity, where are you thinking of moving to?

National is the devil.

And Labour and Green are the Second Coming?

[New Rogernomics]

New Zealand is filled with so many corporate and government monopolies (from the AA to electricity companies).

Eh? Aside from Air New Zealand's complete monopoly over the regional market, I can't really think of anything else that's government owned that has everything to itself. The railways perhaps?

When Labour, NZ First and the Greens pour billions into the economy and education to create jobs; that is when the true recovery will began.

By printing billions of extra notes and playing with the currency system to the extent that we may end up with a very worthless currency? No thanks. I want the NZ$ to retain a little value, not like the currencies of countries in Europe where wads of cash bought one a cup of coffee.

National is a party for people who hate the disabled and view them as refuse (they cut the funding for disabled in schools), hate the unemployed with more venom that Romney is capable of, hate kids (closes their schools and cuts cooking and skills classes), want to destroy the environment (mining national parks for 1% royalty while foreign corporates take 99%), support creationism (charter schools) and believe in the free market myth.

National isn't perfect, granted, but it is not like the above. Seriously, creationism? Hatin' on disabled people? What idiotic crap will you pull from that horrid brown orifice that spawned this shit next?

I am close to packing my bags.

Fuck off then.

National is the devil.

You've lost your mind completely.

I really need lunch.

A brain wouldn't go amiss. Failing that, a gun.

Reporting you to the mods. Telling someone to f''off and that they are mentally insane irrespective of their opinions on an issue is uncalled for. But as far as your denials are concerned:

Invalid beneficiary Sam Kuha is on hunger strike after smashing windows at the Work and Income office in Kaikohe. Photo / Peter de Graaf

Mana Party leader Hone Harawira was at court yesterday to support a Kaikohe beneficiary on a hunger strike in protest at his treatment by Work and Income.

Sam Kuha, 59, made his first appearance in Kaikohe District Court after allegedly smashing two windows at Work and Income's Kaikohe office.

Kuha said he travelled into town by electric wheelchair early on September 18 and shattered the windows with a sledgehammer to draw attention to his hunger strike, now in its 16th day.

He entered no plea to a charge of causing intentional damage and was remanded on bail until October 30.

His only bail condition is not to visit Winz except by prior arrangement.

Outside court, Mr Harawira said Kuha was a courageous man who deserved support. His story, of being forced off ACC on to a benefit too low to live on was all too common.

"The Government expects everybody to suffer in silence. They say there's no excuse for breaking a window, but there's no excuse for children starving or living in poverty because of benefit cuts. That's absolutely criminal, far beyond a broken window - yet they're not being held accountable," Mr Harawira said.

Kuha, who lost a leg and the use of an arm after being run over 20 years ago, started his hunger strike after being refused a food grant on September 14.

He had already received three special-needs grants so Winz rules required him to see a budgeter before getting another. Kuha refused, saying it was pointless as his income and expenses had not changed since his last budget, and in any case there was a two-week wait to see an adviser.

He said he would not lift his hunger strike until the three-grant rule was changed. As an adult on his own, he could get by. His concern was for families with children.

He said he had been contacted by the Ministry for Social Development, though he had yet to meet officials face to face. He said his benefit amounted to $244 a week, leaving him just $18 for food once his expenses had been paid.

Mr Harawira has also been arguing Kuha's case in Parliament, using question time on Wednesday to grill Social Development Minister Paula Bennett.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10837346

[New Rogernomics]

Sorry but the high dollar is to do with government policies or rather economic inaction.

Explain.

It's not the government's fault that companies are set up in such a way that high exchange rates makes them less viable. If there was a method that would lower the value of the dollar without seriously destabilising the economy, it would have been used years ago. But there isn't.

The government's role is to make the environment friendly for businesses, this is a state capitalist system

State capitalism? Are you saying we should become like Singapore or China? What on earth are you talking about?

You also realise that New Zealand is ranked third in the world for ease of doing business, right?

You can't grow an economy by allowing unemployment to spiral out of control

And which major party actually wants to see unemployment to increase? Enlighten my silly neoliberal mind. Please.

you cannot grow an economy by cutting education spending and sacking tens of thousands of people (they spend money, which in turn stimulates the economy; and generates tax revenue).

And just where do you expect all these jobs to be? Where? What industries? We are all putting people out of work everyday. You shop online - there goes the retail sector. You bank online - there go the clerks. You want cheaper televisions, fridges, computers etc, jobs are outsourced to cheaper parts of the world. Where do you think these jobs are going to come from?

I am as guilty as everyone on this, but God, get some perspective and stop blaming the party you hate just because it's the trendy thing to do.

Government jobs aren't the answer to everything. In most cases, they're not. It's just people being paid for by other people's taxes. it makes no difference.

That is why the stimulus has saved the US economy and created jobs, whereas NZ austerity has done nothing

Now I'm starting to worry for you. New Zealand is forecast to grow at 2.2% this year and over 3% next year, almost double that of most advanced economies. The US on the other hand, is forecast to barely make 2% next year.

Our credit rating is AA+ and is constantly confirmed for a positive outlook.

You keep saying "austerity" as we're in some severe economic situation where the government has to take deep cuts. We're not. Kindly stop with the misleading exaggeration.

the effect being that any recovery is too slow and cannot keep pace with mounting debt. The debt is at such levels that only a change of government could hope to fix it,

Oh for Christ's sake, it's one of the lowest in the developed world. Enough with the hyperbole.

If you compare NZ's economic indicators with all other OECD countries, we doing better than most. Our performance is positive and our outlook even better.

fortunately 'the left' as you call it is rising in the polls.

It is? National is comfortably ahead of Labour and John Key is miles ahead of David Shearer as preferred PM.

I will be glad to see John Key pack his bags back to Auckland, he can share a home with Ruthanasia

I'd hate to remind you that Ruthanasia was merely a continuation of your beloved Rogernomics.

and when Labour, NZ First and the Greens pour billions into the economy and education to create jobs; that is when the true recovery will began

So you want another Clark/Cullen style government with reckless spending to the extent that it cannot be politically unwound without severe economic repercussions?

Earlier in this thread you were hoping that eventually Labour would die out. Now you're hailing them as saviours from the wicked John Key. Why the change of heart?

By the way, we are already undertaking significant infrastructure projects which most developed economies can only dream of doing.

An economist friend of mine believes that the NZ banks are set to collapse, because the profits are too high and that reveals massive flaws in the NZ economy.

Except for the fact that NZ banks have a positive outlook, as confirmed by credit agencies?

And the reason why banks are taking in large profits is because the banking sector is relatively stable. What kind of a pseudo-economist is your friend?

National is a party for people who hate the disabled and view them as refuse (they cut the funding for disabled in schools), hate the unemployed with more venom that Romney is capable of, hate kids (closes their schools and cuts cooking and skills classes), want to destroy the environment (mining national parks for 1% royalty while foreign corporates take 99%), support creationism (charter schools) and believe in the free market myth.

Here we go. I knew it wouldn't be long before you'd spurt some sensationalist tosh. Cutting funding does not equal to hating children and the disabled. Allowing charter schools does not equal to being a creationist. How on earth did you come to that?

God, the above post is no different to the people who say Obama is a Communist or Merkel a Nazi. Do you realise how much credibility your argument has lost due to that?

Your schools funding claim is utter crap. You completely ignore the extra $1 billion that will be pumped into schools. You ignore the new schools to be built. You probably think class sizes will increase due to schools mergers, which is again is crap because the schools that will merge will get more classes and teachers.

But, who am I to tell you that. John Campbell has told you everything you need to know about school closures and how John Key is the spawn of Satan, didn't he?

I am close to packing my bags,

Out of curiosity, where are you thinking of moving to?

National is the devil.

And Labour and Green are the Second Coming?

I am an atheist, which means all your ranting and raving about my post not being credible is meaningless. I don't have a belief in Satan or the Devil, which means that National is selfish and without ethical fibre (which means it is neither good or evil). I would have called National objectivist, but that would have been an insult to objectivists. Charter schools allow creationism to be taught alongside evolution: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/educati ... ses-doubts
Thousands protest against the school closures: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10835912

Plans for a school to teach creationism as well as evolution have raised doubts over how the Ministry of Education will ensure children are properly educated under the Government's charter schools framework.

The Manukau Charitable Christian Trust is one of a number of faith-based groups planning to be, as the Government now calls them, a partnership school.

It plans to team up with Manukau Christian School and teach the In God's World philosophy, marked against the Cambridge curriculum.

The philosophy, used at other Christian schools, encourages every subject to be taught so students discover how God made the world, and upholds and governs it.

Science and culture modules are taught to equip students to recognise what the In God's World document calls the wonder of God's creation, and that God is the God of history.

PS: I never voted for National and will be voting against it next election as I have done since I first gained the right to vote. I don't want to live on Planet Key with golf courses, and 200,000 kids in poverty even if you do. I don't respect your opinion, and you don't respect mine. When people are starving themselves in protest there is something wrong with this country, even if you fail to see it.

[Costa Alegria]

Reporting you to the mods.

Go ahead. But it's not actionable.

Also, no one's stopping you leaving. You said you were going to pack your bags, so go do it. No one is stopping you.

Telling someone to f''off and that they are mentally insane irrespective of their opinions on an issue is uncalled for.

And you rant was? Likening National to the devil and saying it supports creationism in national policy is ridiculous. That charter school you mentioned is private and thus not subject to the same curriculum restrictions as public schools. If the school and the PTA of that school also feels that creationism is best for their students, so be it. It was the parents that sent them there in the first place and if they don't like it, they can send their students elsewhere.

But as far as your denials are concerned.

One man represents all of New Zealand? That's new. Whatever next? All white people are inherently better off because of their skin colour?

[Forster Keys]

So the Speaker of the house sends sexist text messages to one of his staff and the government (whom have been seaking out against sexism since they were elected) endorse the speaker and allow him to retain his role. Does anyone else see the hypocrisy in this? I suppose it is politically convenient to keep him as Speaker which is why they are wiling to overlook his sexism and sexual abuse charges.

Expediency wins the day always.

[Forster Keys]

For God's sake guys, we've gone on this long with little to no issues, let's not fuck it up now.

[New Rogernomics]

For God's sake guys, we've gone on this long with little to no issues, let's not fuck it up now.

It already is, it is like a Camp David summit. I'm gone from this thread, sometimes you have to be partisan; in two years time National will be gone, really people need to wake up to that reality. Whether I stay here or leave to the states, I am just ticking off the days till I never have to see John Key's face on TV again.

NATIONAL (41.5%) LEAD OVER LABOUR (33.5%) REDUCES AGAIN.
LABOUR/GREENS/ NZ FIRST WOULD WIN AN ELECTION HELD NOW

http://www.roymorgan.com/news/polls/2012/4831/

[Forster Keys]

For God's sake guys, we've gone on this long with little to no issues, let's not fuck it up now.

It already is, it is like a Camp David summit.

Whose Arafat?

I'm gone from this thread,

Maaaate...

sometimes you have to be partisan;

To an extent. I hate it personally.

in two years time National will be gone, really people need to wake up to that reality. Whether I stay here or leave to the states, I am just ticking off the days till I never have to see John Key's face on TV again.

That's all cool, though can't we all be civil about it? Not just directed at you mind.

[New Rogernomics]

It already is, it is like a Camp David summit.

Whose Arafat?

The Media.

Maaaate...

Well it's not like me posting in this thread or viewing other people's posts I disagree with is going to improve the quality of this thread. In two years time when there is a different government in power I will consider posting again.

sometimes you have to be partisan;

To an extent. I hate it personally.

Yep it can get annoying, but really there is no way around it right now either in US or NZ politics. I have placed my bets, so have people in this thread.

in two years time National will be gone, really people need to wake up to that reality. Whether I stay here or leave to the states, I am just ticking off the days till I never have to see John Key's face on TV again.

That's all cool, though can't we all be civil about it? Not just directed at you mind.

I can't be civil as there is nothing civil about the political situation, let me put it this way; if John Key offered me a drink or a cup of tea I would take it, but when it comes to his politics I don't like his guts. Simple as that. National party supporters don't have to know me, and I don't have to know them. I have said something they don't like, they don't like me as a result; and that is the way the world works. If I only said things to be popular or be polite, I wouldn't have real friends at all.

[Forster Keys]

Well it's not like me posting in this thread or viewing other people's posts I disagree with is going to improve the quality of this thread. In two years time when there is a different government in power I will consider posting again.

Thus thread's got a broad spectrum.

Yep it can get annoying, but really there is no way around it right now either in US or NZ politics. I have placed my bets, so have people in this thread.

I prefer to base myself in principles rather than parties.

I can't be civil as there is nothing civil about the political situation, let me put it this way; if John Key offered me a drink or a cup of tea I would take it, but when it comes to his politics I don't like his guts. Simple as that. National party supporters don't have to know me, and I don't have to know them. I have said something they don't like, they don't like me as a result; and that is the way the world works. If I only said things to be popular or be polite, I wouldn't have real friends at all.

Me and people like Blouman and Jafas are diametrically opposed politically, though we still get on like a house on fire. No reason for you to bugger off.

[New Rogernomics]

Thus thread's got a broad spectrum.

Not as far as the NZ political spectrum is concerned, if you want to put it another way. I am the 'radical' NZ Green party supporter in this thread. I don't like asset sales, and I don't like how the environment is being ruined by poor government policy.

I prefer to base myself in principles rather than parties.

And when a party meets your principles, as the Green Party has for me on free education, environmental and social welfare policy? That is pretty much it really, for the time being they meet my principles. I can't vote in the US, so I don't have the qualms over there as I do over here.

Me and people like Blouman and Jafas are diametrically opposed politically, though we still get on like a house on fire. No reason for you to bugger off.

And I can get on with rabid conservatives, doesn't mean I have to know all of them.
Edit: After the next election things will cool down, the same was the case when Labour and National were having it off against each other in the 2008 election.

[New Rogernomics]

One man represents all of New Zealand? That's new. Whatever next? All white people are inherently better off because of their skin colour?

When he is the PM he does, more so when he holds sway over foreign affairs. White people are a people? I have heard of Caucasians though. If I get a tan or put a label called 'Maori', 'Middle Eastern',etc on do you think I will get paid less? I think that is an idea, you think I will get hit on more if I pretend to be Maori? I can't pretend to be Middle Eastern so much as I am already part Arab-Armenian.

[Forster Keys]

Thus thread's got a broad spectrum.

Not as far as the NZ political spectrum is concerned, if you want to put it another way. I am the 'radical' NZ Green party supporter in this thread. I don't like asset sales, and I don't like how the environment is being ruined by poor government policy.

In terms of topics I mean. Me and Meow are your counterparts BTW.

And when a party meets your principles, as the Green Party has for me on free education, environmental and social welfare policy? That is pretty much it really, for the time being they meet my principles. I can't vote in the US, so I don't have the qualms over there as I do over here.

I'm more talking about the partisanship that seems so frequent on the far left, ie. ignoring your own side's failings and generally being illogical.

And I can get on with rabid conservatives, doesn't mean I have to know all of them.
Edit: After the next election things will cool down, the same was the case when Labour and National were having it off against each other in the 2008 election.

Whatever works for you bud.

[New Rogernomics]

I'm more talking about the partisanship that seems so frequent on the far left, ie. ignoring your own side's failings and generally being illogical.

I disagreed frequently with Labour when it was in power, and I do the same with National. If the Greens took power the same would likely occur. When there is no government and no corporations though I will be a happy man. I disagree with National for different reasons or odd reasons; I don't agree with asset sales because I don't believe that power companies should be owned by the government (it is not their's to sell) or by private corporations, instead everyone should be a shareholder (according to the amount of tax they pay). I don't believe in National's education policy because I would prefer to have free education, no creationism at all (even in private schools) and no state funding of religion (separation of church and state). As far as social welfare is concerned, I would prefer that everyone on welfare was put into higher Education, trained up and given the opportunity of a job; thus the social welfare system can be shut down (and billions a year can be saved). But as long as there are student loans, and cuts to social welfare that will never happen.

[Jafas United]

am an atheist, which means all your ranting and raving about my post not being credible is meaningless.

No it doesn't. Did you even read what I wrote? At all?

You went off on a tangent claiming how John Key hates children, the disabled, is a creationist etc. That kind of sensationalist gutter politics which you espouse is what made your post lose its credibility. It had nothing to do with your atheism. And of course, if you read my post you would've realised that.

I would have called National objectivist

Thank God you didn't. Because that would've shown your lack of knowledge on objectivism and who is an objectivist.

Charter schools allow creationism to be taught alongside evolution: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/educati ... ses-doubts
Plans for a school to teach creationism as well as evolution have raised doubts over how the Ministry of Education will ensure children are properly educated under the Government's charter schools framework.

The Manukau Charitable Christian Trust is one of a number of faith-based groups planning to be, as the Government now calls them, a partnership school.

It plans to team up with Manukau Christian School and teach the In God's World philosophy, marked against the Cambridge curriculum.

The philosophy, used at other Christian schools, encourages every subject to be taught so students discover how God made the world, and upholds and governs it.

Science and culture modules are taught to equip students to recognise what the In God's World document calls the wonder of God's creation, and that God is the God of history.

Look, if John Key and National were planning on making every state schools teach creationism, then you can call them creationists. But they're not. It's just a small number of partnership schools which are being rolled out, and they're not under the same regulations as state schools are. Also bear in mind that the majority of these partnership schools probably will not indoctrinate their children with creationism.

Your claim is again, utter crap. Without exception your rant has not a single shred of truth going for it. It's just emotional spin that's all too common in heated debates.

By the way, it'd be quite hard for John Key to be a Christian fundamentalist, considering that he is Jewish by birth, agnostic by description.

Thousands protest against the school closures: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/artic ... d=10835912

Here is what I wrote about this issue in my previous post, because you conveniently missed it.

Your schools funding claim is utter crap. You completely ignore the extra $1 billion that will be pumped into schools. You ignore the new schools to be built. You probably think class sizes will increase due to schools mergers, which is again is crap because the schools that will merge will get more classes and teachers.

I'd also like to add that many of the schools designated for closure are done so because reports show the land they are on is unsafe, or the buildings remain unsafe.

Do you honestly believe every single thing John Campbell tells you?

I never voted for National and will be voting against it next election as I have done since I first gained the right to vote.

I think we figured that already.

When people are starving themselves in protest there is something wrong with this country, even if you fail to see it

How on earth is this relevant? People were starving themselves in protest when Helen Clark was in power. What difference is it now that John Key is in power? What's your chip your shoulder that everything wrong with NZ is obviously the work of John Key and National?

And finally, I've noticed you've ignored many, if not most, of the points I raised in my previous post.

[New Rogernomics]

No it doesn't. Did you even read what I wrote? At all?

Yes it does, if the devil is a-moral (and non-existent) how can it be evil; and thus how can by extension the National party be evil?

You went off on a tangent claiming how John Key hates children, the disabled, is a creationist etc. That kind of sensationalist gutter politics which you espouse is what made your post lose its credibility. It had nothing to do with your atheism. And of course, if you read my post you would've realised that.

I said National did, is John Key the entire national party; I don't think he is the Education Minister. Plus that was describing a large portion of their voting base. I don't have charming things to say about the Labour years either.

By the way, it'd be quite hard for John Key to be a Christian fundamentalist, considering that he is Jewish by birth, agnostic by description.

Doesn't have to be, but to be fair he isn't as bad as the Aussie PM that goes on about judeo-christian values stopping her from voting for gay marriage. If Labour remained in power it would likely have followed in the footsteps of the British Labour party, with faith schools teaching their kids to hate; and homeopathy gone mad.

Here is what I wrote about this issue in my previous post, because you conveniently missed it.

You ignore the schools that are already built and failing, and I am not against national standards (if you bring it up); but $1 billion is nothing in comparison to what schools actually need.

Do you honestly believe every single thing John Campbell tells you?

What does he tell me, I don't watch TV[;] let alone his show.

How on earth is this relevant? People were starving themselves in protest when Helen Clark was in power. What difference is it now that John Key is in power? What's your chip your shoulder that everything wrong with NZ is obviously the work of John Key and National?

I voted Green then, I didn't like Helen Clark nor Labour. I don't like John Key nor National. So the answer lies with Labour and National, they were the ruling parties that drew the shots for the last 60+ years.

And finally, I've noticed you've ignored many, if not most, of the points I raised in my previous post.

You ignored a lot of mine too, I can't be bothered replying to everything you type; the same with you.

[Costa Alegria]

For God's sake guys, we've gone on this long with little to no issues, let's not fuck it up now.

He probably shouldn't have made such a dumb rant then. You engage in sensationalist bullshit, odds are someone will call you out on it.

It's not rocket science.

[New Rogernomics]

For God's sake guys, we've gone on this long with little to no issues, let's not fuck it up now.

He probably shouldn't have made such a dumb rant then. You engage in sensationalist bullshit, odds are someone will call you out on it.

It's not rocket science.

You shouldn't elect such a dumb government then; and we don't have 'rocket science' as all the scientists are packing their bags off to Australia, along with the doctors, nurses (and anyone else that can pack a suitcase and get better pay overseas). Certainly I wonder why I even bothered coming back, it sucked under Labour; and it sucks even more under National. If I stayed in NZ I would have become a brain-dead vegetable, so it is interesting to hear you call me stupid; because if I had lived in the worst of the 1990s then I probably would have been so.

[Costa Alegria]

You shouldn't elect such a dumb government then.

Yeah, I forgot how Labour were so brilliant with our money.

And we don't have 'rocket science' as all the scientists are packing their bags off to Australia, along with the doctors, nurses (and anyone else that can pack a suitcase and get better pay overseas).

And you do realise that they pay extra in places like Australia and the UK because not only is the cost of living higher, but you also pay more in taxes or extra taxes.

Certainly I wonder why I even bothered coming back, it sucked under Labour; and it sucks even more under National.

As I've said before, no one's stopping you leaving. If you don't like NZ so much, leave.

And no, the Green Party doesn't have any decent policies.

[New Rogernomics]

Yeah, I forgot how Labour were so brilliant with our money.

Better than National ever were, if they had been in power earlier the surplus would have been used up on tax cuts; and the debt would be bigger than what it already is:

And you do realise that they pay extra in places like Australia and the UK because not only is the cost of living higher, but you also pay more in taxes or extra taxes.

Having lived in Australia I would disagree. The food is cheaper as is the accommodation (depending on where you live), Internet and necessities; you get more benefits in terms of bonuses and tax credits.

As I've said before, no one's stopping you leaving. If you don't like NZ so much, leave.

As I have said before, whether I leave or not is irrelevant. If I leave National will be out of power in two years, if I stay it will be out in two years. So if I have to leave at all, it won't be for very long. Planet Key is drying up, and won't be there much longer; NZ on the other hand will be, and NZ is not Planet Key for much longer.

And no, the Green Party doesn't have any decent policies.

Better having some new ideas, than those re-packaged from the Chicago School still with the price tags and country of of origin labels on them. Edit: NZ Post probably charged extra for shipping, got to love monopolies.

[Jafas United]

]Yes it does, if the devil is a-moral (and non-existent) how can it be evil; and thus how can by extension the National party be evil?

Except when talking about the credibility of your post I wasn't referring to your "National is evil comment". Go and read what I was referring to. It isn't that hard. It really isn't.

In any case, now you're saying National isn't evil? What are they then?

I said National did, is John Key the entire national party; I don't think he is the Education Minister. Plus that was describing a large portion of their voting base. I don't have charming things to say about the Labour years either.

That's great. It still doesn't prove your wild claims how National are creationists, hate the disabled etc.

Doesn't have to be, but to be fair he isn't as bad as the Aussie PM that goes on about judeo-christian values stopping her from voting for gay marriage. If Labour remained in power it would likely have followed in the footsteps of the British Labour party, with faith schools teaching their kids to hate; and homeopathy gone mad.

Do you ever post anything relevant?

You ignore the schools that are already built and failing

Prove it.

but $1 billion is nothing in comparison to what schools actually need.

It's not $1 billion on its own, its an extra one billion which will be pumped into schools. And how much more do schools need? Pray, tell us?

What does he tell me, I don't watch TV[;] let alone his show.

His show preys on people like you in order to create a juicy news story. It's all the same "National hates the poor. National wants to destroy schools. Only Labour can save us now" hogwash which you have also advocated in this thread.

I voted Green then, I didn't like Helen Clark nor Labour. I don't like John Key nor National. So the answer lies with Labour and National, they were the ruling parties that drew the shots for the last 60+ years.

And you think Green are heroes? Do you even think they have the slightest chance of replacing Labour as the major left wing party? If we didn't have MMP, they'd hold much less power than they current do.

You ignored a lot of mine too, I can't be bothered replying to everything you type; the same with you.

Granted. Though I've noticed you have dropped the unemployment and debate issues, and you're now focusing on some flimsy "National are [insert random hyperbolic word here]" claim. This debate has gone downhill fast.

[Costa Alegria]

Having lived in Australia I would disagree. The food is cheaper as is the accommodation (depending on where you live), Internet and necessities; you get more benefits in terms of bonuses and tax credits.

Perhaps twenty years ago, but it may not be the case these days. Even a basic calculator says otherwise.

As I have said before, whether I leave or not is irrelevant.

If it was irrelevant, why would you feel it was necessary to mention it?

If I leave National will be out of power in two years, if I stay it will be out in two years.

According to you.

Better having some new ideas, than those re-packaged from the Chicago School still with the price tags and country of of origin labels on them.

It doesn't have any ideas, period. All it does is just randomly suggest random shit which the government already dismissed as too stupid or too damn irresponsible. We're talking about a party who's only solution to the high dollar was to "print more money".

[Jafas United]

Better than National ever were, if they had been in power earlier the surplus would have been used up on tax cuts; and the debt would be bigger than what it already is:

(Image)

So remind us, who was the party that put New Zealand in recession before the GFC? Remember Michael Cullen's boast that National would have nothing left to spend once elected? Remember how they introduced Kiwisaver and unnecessary tax carts in order to drain the surplus just in time for the election?

[New Rogernomics]

In any case, now you're saying National isn't evil? What are they then?

A-moral and selfish.

That's great. It still doesn't prove your wild claims how National are creationists, hate the disabled etc.

Never said they were creationists, and they hate them by refusing them benefits and otherwise underfunding education, removing teachers aids and such. Edit: If you want a look at what the National ideal is, then if this libertarianz merges with Act; here it is: http://www.libertarianz.org.nz/policies/disability/

...We are not entitled to disability services...

Prove it.

Look at your own national standards.

It's not $1 billion on its own, its an extra one billion which will be pumped into schools. And how much more do schools need? Pray, tell us?

At least $10 billion, and increased pay for teachers; so probably $11-12 billion. Universities need a lot more, though that depends on whether the student loan system remains in place; if it remains in place then likely the govt will have to find billions more each year, slap on interest and it will just encourage even more professionals to leave the country for better pay to pay back their loans.

His show preys on people like you in order to create a juicy news story. It's all the same "National hates the poor. National wants to destroy schools. Only Labour can save us now" hogwash which you have also advocated in this thread.

Really? I don't vote Labour, so I wouldn't know; if my choice was constrained to those two parties I would vote National over Labour. I vote Green instead.

And you think Green are heroes? Do you even think they have the slightest chance of replacing Labour as the major left wing party? If we didn't have MMP, they'd hold much power than they current do.

Depends, Labour has been unpopular for many years; and both NZ FIrst and the Greens, alongside the Conservatives are doing well in the polls. If the Greens overtake Labour then it won't lead them by much.

Granted. Though I've noticed you have dropped the unemployment and debate issues, and you're now focusing on some flimsy "National are [insert random hyperbolic word here]" claim. This debate has gone downhill fast.

The unemployment is going up, and is still going up; what more needs to be said? Do I have to say that the economic growth is mediocre as well?

[Costa Alegria]

This debate has gone downhill fast.

It hit rock bottom before it even began.

At least $10 billion, and increased pay for teachers; so probably $11-12 billion.

That is so fucking unrealistic it is not funny. It is stupid. The government, even in times of low unemployment and high economic growth, has never had more than $10-12 billion in surplus for all funding allocations. The government doesn't have that kind of money and never really had, even in they hey-day money days before 2008.

Seriosuly, how much money do you think the government has? Because that is a vast overestimation of what funds are actually available in a surplus year.

And you wonder why I called you insane? Suggestions like this are why. Seriously, I can't believe what I have just read. I only have a basic grasp on economics and even I know this is ridiculous.

Never said they were creationists.

You said National was promoting creationism by allowing a private Christian school to teach Christian beliefs. That seems a little illogical.