ANZG: The Trans-Tasman Thread

[Creative Vikings]

Are there any Technocrat parties in new Zealand?

Ugh, can't think of any. Career politicians are still rife.

I only know three other Technocrats in NZ.

[Forsher]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19621075

I found that interesting. I believe the overall percentage is roughly the same as here but there are some interesting differences.

Now, the Chinese and Indian populations, in particular, are moving into their second and third generations in large numbers.

Asians, of course, have been established in NZ since the 1860s. I would have thought this would have been similar in Australia, but maybe there wasn't a goldrush then as I thought. It may just be that large numbers are larger than I imagine.

Getting her breath back she tells me: "It was difficult when I was in junior school, as I was the only brown face.

At my primary school there were about fifty people in each year. That's pretty standard for the wider area. We had two Indians in our year (with the sterotypical last names, just an interesting fact), three regular East Asians and one person from the Phillipines until they moved to QLD. (My English class from year nine does show an increase even in that at just over half the size: two Indians, five East Asians.)

There are issues of racism to overcome, though, in crime terms, Asians are less likely to be victims than the general population

I'm not sure what that is about. But good for Australia... too racist to make victims of minorities.

I wouldn't have bothered myself with this post but I happened to have to read thislast week so...

[Meowfoundland]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19621075

I found that interesting. I believe the overall percentage is roughly the same as here but there are some interesting differences.

Now, the Chinese and Indian populations, in particular, are moving into their second and third generations in large numbers.

Asians, of course, have been established in NZ since the 1860s. I would have thought this would have been similar in Australia, but maybe there wasn't a goldrush then as I thought. It may just be that large numbers are larger than I imagine.

There was a gold rush inn the 1850s and the associated Chinese immigrants, but we had the White Australia Policy from 1901 until slow dismantlement after WWII. We've only received large numbers of Asian immigrants within the last few decades.

Getting her breath back she tells me: "It was difficult when I was in junior school, as I was the only brown face.

At my primary school there were about fifty people in each year. That's pretty standard for the wider area. We had two Indians in our year (with the sterotypical last names, just an interesting fact), three regular East Asians and one person from the Phillipines until they moved to QLD. (My English class from year nine does show an increase even in that at just over half the size: two Indians, five East Asians.)

I go to school in one of the most heavily Asian suburbs of Melbourne, so over half of the students are either ABCs or overseas students. It was a change from my 90% white primary school, definitely.

[Forsher]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19621075

I found that interesting. I believe the overall percentage is roughly the same as here but there are some interesting differences.



Asians, of course, have been established in NZ since the 1860s. I would have thought this would have been similar in Australia, but maybe there wasn't a goldrush then as I thought. It may just be that large numbers are larger than I imagine.

There was a gold rush inn the 1850s and the associated Chinese immigrants, but we had the White Australia Policy from 1901 until slow dismantlement after WWII. We've only received large numbers of Asian immigrants within the last few decades.

At my primary school there were about fifty people in each year. That's pretty standard for the wider area. We had two Indians in our year (with the sterotypical last names, just an interesting fact), three regular East Asians and one person from the Phillipines until they moved to QLD. (My English class from year nine does show an increase even in that at just over half the size: two Indians, five East Asians.)

I go to school in one of the most heavily Asian suburbs of Melbourne, so over half of the students are either ABCs or overseas students. It was a change from my 90% white primary school, definitely.

There's a part of Auckland that has the informal name "Chowick" instead of Howick, unless I made it up and the origin is a convenient myth. My cousins go to school near there (or did, one has since finished school and it's the other's last year). They have a breakdown of (in 2010, at least):

NZ European/Pākehā 32%,
Māori 3%,
Chinese 25%,
Indian 8%,
South East Asian 2%,
Pacific 1%,
other European 17%,
other Asian 9%,
other 3%

Compared to my school way back in 2009,

New Zealand European/Pākehā 55%;
Māori 20%; Pacific 5%; Asian 12%; Other 8%

it's quite a difference.

This is the largest school in NZ's one (2010):

NZ European/Pākehā 53%
Māori 5%
Chinese 9%
Korean 9%
African 7%
SE Asian 4%
Indian 3%
Japanese 1%
Pacific 1%
other Asian 1%
other 7%

I must point out my school has about 160 fewer international students and is a similar size to my cousins (slightly smaller).

[Forster Keys]

Oh gawd. I had a run in with some Trotskyists the other day. Pushed me miles away from joining any socialist organisation around here.

That sounded like fun. What were they yabbering on about?

I thought there talk about standing in solidarity and supporting Muslim fundamentalists in the aftermath of that riot was ridiculous.[/quote]

[Forster Keys]

I go to school in one of the most heavily Asian suburbs of Melbourne, so over half of the students are either ABCs or overseas students. It was a change from my 90% white primary school, definitely.

I had the opposite experience. 80% Lebanese to around 95% Anglo.

[Forster Keys]

Sounds like a lot of members of our Labor party, and if they aren't that then they are either career pollies or union officials that have only ever been union officials rather then working in the areas

Yes, I completely agree, I defy anyone to find me one siting member of the Federal Labor Party who has ever run a business or had a senior role in one. Or for that matter was educated at one of the big four global universities.
While where on it what qualifications does Wayne Swan have?

Julia Gillard graduated from Melbourne Uni and was a senior partner in Slater and Gordon.

Wow. That was hard.

[Forsher]

I go to school in one of the most heavily Asian suburbs of Melbourne, so over half of the students are either ABCs or overseas students. It was a change from my 90% white primary school, definitely.

I had the opposite experience. 80% Lebanese to around 95% Anglo.

I don't think I've ever met anyone from Lebanon... How did that situation arise? Did you move areas?

[Forster Keys]

I had the opposite experience. 80% Lebanese to around 95% Anglo.

I don't think I've ever met anyone from Lebanon... How did that situation arise? Did you move areas?

From South Eastern Sydney to the Mid North Coast.

[The Murry]

Yes, I completely agree, I defy anyone to find me one siting member of the Federal Labor Party who has ever run a business or had a senior role in one. Or for that matter was educated at one of the big four global universities.
While where on it what qualifications does Wayne Swan have?

Julia Gillard graduated from Melbourne Uni and was a senior partner in Slater and Gordon.

Wow. That was hard.

1) It's Slater and Gordon
2) She got fired
3) Melbourne Uni ain't close to being one of the big four global universities

[Ostroeuropa]

So when are you guys going to see sense and rejoin beloved Britannia?
You can have your own seats in parliament

[Jafas United]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politic ... rights-hui

Anyone still following the whole water rights saga?

The iwi had their chance to talk, but yet again they act like spoiled children when they don't get what they want. Key will be pleased, at least.

[Forster Keys]

Julia Gillard graduated from Melbourne Uni and was a senior partner in Slater and Gordon.

Wow. That was hard.

1) It's Slater and Gordon

Yes. That's what I said.

2) She got fired

I don't think she did. :/

3) Melbourne Uni ain't close to being one of the big four global universities

Ah, so you mean Oxford or Harvard or something? Fuck that. It's merely academic snobbery and cultural cringe. It's not the be all and end all of how able you are.

[Forster Keys]

So when are you guys going to see sense and rejoin beloved Britannia?
You can have your own seats in parliament

Join that mess? Bah. I doubt it. You can barely keep the Union together as it is.

[Meowfoundland]

Julia Gillard graduated from Melbourne Uni and was a senior partner in Slater and Gordon.

Wow. That was hard.

1) It's Slater and Gordon
2) She got fired
3) Melbourne Uni ain't close to being one of the big four global universities

1) So? Are they not a business? Do you have a problem with Slater and Gordon?
2) No, she didn't. 10 seconds on Google could tell you otherwise.
3) What even are the "big four global universities"? I've never heard of that term.

[Forster Keys]

1) It's Slater and Gordon
2) She got fired
3) Melbourne Uni ain't close to being one of the big four global universities

1) So? Are they not a business? Do you have a problem with Slater and Gordon?
2) No, she didn't. 10 seconds on Google could tell you otherwise.
3) What even are the "big four global universities"? I've never heard of that term.

You're only worth something if Daddy can get you into Harvard.

[Meowfoundland]

1) So? Are they not a business? Do you have a problem with Slater and Gordon?
2) No, she didn't. 10 seconds on Google could tell you otherwise.
3) What even are the "big four global universities"? I've never heard of that term.

You're only worth something if Daddy can get you into Harvard.

It's nice to know that nobody who hasn't gone to an extremely expensive overseas university shouldn't be in power.

[Forster Keys]

You're only worth something if Daddy can get you into Harvard.

It's nice to know that nobody who hasn't gone to an extremely expensive overseas university shouldn't be in power.

But what's the point in having an elite then?!

[New Chalcedon]

Julia Gillard graduated from Melbourne Uni and was a senior partner in Slater and Gordon.

Wow. That was hard.

1) It's Slater and Gordon

Which is what I see in the post you quoted.

2) She got fired

Evidence or GTFO.

3) Melbourne Uni ain't close to being one of the big four global universities

So no university in Australia is good enough to educate prospective Prime Ministers, eh? Nice to see that the cultural cringe survives, and is stronger than ever on the Right.

[The Murry]

Well Slater and Gordon... Isn't exactly the sort of place where one would experience the pressures of running a business.

Short and the fat of it is the Opposition carry alot more qualifications then the Government, and higher quality ones at that. Thus we can deduce that the Opposition is actually smarter then the Government.

Incompleted Degree at University of Adelaid
Bachelor of Laws, University of Melbourne
Bachelor of Arts, University of Melbourne

Bachelor of Economics, University of Sydney
Bachelor of Laws, University of Sydney
Master of Arts (Politics and Philosophy) Oxford (he was a Rhodes Scalar, like Bob Hawk)
He is also trained as a Catholic Priest

Bachelor of Arts (Public Administration)

Bachelor of Arts, University of Sydney
Bachelor of Laws, University of Sydney

Need I go on?

[Blouman Empire]

Sounds like a lot of members of our Labor party, and if they aren't that then they are either career pollies or union officials that have only ever been union officials rather then working in the areas

Yes, I completely agree, I defy anyone to find me one siting member of the Federal Labor Party who has ever run a business or had a senior role in one. Or for that matter was educated at one of the big four global universities.
While where on it what qualifications does Wayne Swan have?

I think a number of them would've gone to universities, career pollies and union officials do go to uni and study something. I think Wayne Swan did economics in the 70's not sure how well he went because he has said stuff that any first year student can tell you is wrong.

[New Chalcedon]

Well Slater and Gordon... Isn't exactly the sort of place where one would experience the pressures of running a business.

Short and the fat of it is the Opposition carry alot more qualifications then the Government, and higher quality ones at that. Thus we can deduce that the Opposition is actually smarter then the Government.

Incompleted Degree at University of Adelaid
Bachelor of Laws, University of Melbourne
Bachelor of Arts, University of Melbourne

Bachelor of Economics, University of Sydney
Bachelor of Laws, University of Sydney
Master of Arts (Politics and Philosophy) Oxford (he was a Rhodes Scalar, like Bob Hawk)
He is also trained as a Catholic Priest

Bachelor of Arts (Public Administration)

Bachelor of Arts, University of Sydney
Bachelor of Laws, University of Sydney

Need I go on?

Actually, yes.

Besides the fact that you can't even spell properly the names of these mavens of public virtue, you are also making key mistakes:

(1) Business is not government. Therefore, to assert that only "business experience" counts as qualification for government is to prepare for failure. No Australian Prime Minister has been a businessman since WWII. Not Menzies, not Hawke or Fraser or Howard or Keating. No matter your personal philosophies, I just names one Prime Minister that you almost certainly regard as one of the 'greats' in Australian political history - and all of them were career politicians, with one trade unionist (Hawke) in the mix.

Therefore, your key assertion - that business experience is required to make one a skilled political leader - is provably false, especially when one considers the dismal track record of leaders in other nations who governed based on their business experience. This is, you will note, doubly true in circumstances which require the government to act like a government, rather than a business.

(2) I wasn't aware - as I noted earlier - that no Australian university is good enough for an Australian leader to be educated at. But it's nice to see the cultural cringe in full action.

(3) I wasn't aware that the theological training of a Catholic seminary is an adequate qualification for the office of Prime Minister. It's not like policy decisions can be prayed away, after all - and I certainly don't want a reactionary old bastard like Abbott using the Bible to make them. I'd be the first on the block (homosexual and apostate Catholic)!

(4) I would prefer to judge someone by their actions (where relevant and accessible) than their paper qualifications. And on that ground, the Gillard Government - having made some blunders, but at the same time steering Australia through the Global Financial Crisis largely intact - has done OK by me. Or would you rather a conservative government akin to David Cameron's, under which Britain is entering a double-dip recession?

What's more, Tony Abbott has been disgraceful enough, and free enough with the truth, that even the (ordinarily very pro-Coalition) commercial TV stations are starting to call him on his constant bullshit (1:50 onwards). I'm no great fan of the Australian Labor Party, but Tony Abbott - based on his actions in the Howard Government, and in Opposition - is unfit to be dog-catcher, much less the Prime Minister. Tony Abbott is a thug and a bully and a congenital liar, and an Abbot Prime Ministership would be disastrous for Australia.

Mind you, I could be persuaded to vote for Malcolm Turnbull as a Liberal Prime Minister over Julia Gillard as Labor PM - he is a proponent of a softer and gentler (and - vitally - considerably more competent and inclusive) Australian Liberalism. But it appears Australia will be saddled with the execrable Mr. Abbott as Prime Minister after the next election - more's the pity.

Yes, I completely agree, I defy anyone to find me one siting member of the Federal Labor Party who has ever run a business or had a senior role in one. Or for that matter was educated at one of the big four global universities.
While where on it what qualifications does Wayne Swan have?

I think a number of them would've gone to universities, career pollies and union officials do go to uni and study something. I think Wayne Swan did economics in the 70's not sure how well he went because he has said stuff that any first year student can tell you is wrong.

Every member of both the Cabinet and the Shadow Cabinet has at least a Bachelor's Degree that I could find.

What's more, I - as someone with a degree in Economics - challenge you to quote Wayne Swan's words (with source, please) that "any first year student" can tell to be wrong. As opposed to, y'know, belonging to a different school of eocnomic thought (consider the freshwater/saltwater economics divide in the USA - anything an economist says from one will be decried as false by undergrad students at the other).

[Emile Zola]

Well Slater and Gordon... Isn't exactly the sort of place where one would experience the pressures of running a business.

Short and the fat of it is the Opposition carry alot more qualifications then the Government, and higher quality ones at that. Thus we can deduce that the Opposition is actually smarter then the Government.

Incompleted Degree at University of Adelaid
Bachelor of Laws, University of Melbourne
Bachelor of Arts, University of Melbourne

Bachelor of Economics, University of Sydney
Bachelor of Laws, University of Sydney
Master of Arts (Politics and Philosophy) Oxford (he was a Rhodes Scalar, like Bob Hawk)
He is also trained as a Catholic Priest

Bachelor of Arts (Public Administration)

Bachelor of Arts, University of Sydney
Bachelor of Laws, University of Sydney

Need I go on?

Actually, yes.

Besides the fact that you can't even spell properly the names of these mavens of public virtue, you are also making key mistakes:

(1) Business is not government. Therefore, to assert that only "business experience" counts as qualification for government is to prepare for failure. No Australian Prime Minister has been a businessman since WWII. Not Menzies, not Hawke or Fraser or Howard or Keating. No matter your personal philosophies, I just names one Prime Minister that you almost certainly regard as one of the 'greats' in Australian political history - and all of them were career politicians, with one trade unionist (Hawke) in the mix.

Therefore, your key assertion - that business experience is required to make one a skilled political leader - is provably false, especially when one considers the dismal track record of leaders in other nations who governed based on their business experience. This is, you will note, doubly true in circumstances which require the government to act like a government, rather than a business.

(2) I wasn't aware - as I noted earlier - that no Australian university is good enough for an Australian leader to be educated at. But it's nice to see the cultural cringe in full action.

(3) I wasn't aware that the theological training of a Catholic seminary is an adequate qualification for the office of Prime Minister. It's not like policy decisions can be prayed away, after all - and I certainly don't want a reactionary old bastard like Abbott using the Bible to make them. I'd be the first on the block (homosexual and apostate Catholic)!

(4) I would prefer to judge someone by their actions (where relevant and accessible) than their paper qualifications. And on that ground, the Gillard Government - having made some blunders, but at the same time steering Australia through the Global Financial Crisis largely intact - has done OK by me. Or would you rather a conservative government akin to David Cameron's, under which Britain is entering a double-dip recession?

What's more, Tony Abbott has been disgraceful enough, and free enough with the truth, that even the (ordinarily very pro-Coalition) commercial TV stations are starting to call him on his constant bullshit (1:50 onwards). I'm no great fan of the Australian Labor Party, but Tony Abbott - based on his actions in the Howard Government, and in Opposition - is unfit to be dog-catcher, much less the Prime Minister. Mind you, I could be persuaded to vote for Malcolm Turnbull as a Liberal Prime Minister - he is a proponent of a softer and gentler (and considerably more competent) Australian Liberalism. But it appears Australia will be saddled with the execrable Mr. Abbott as Prime Minister after the next election - more's the pity.

I think a number of them would've gone to universities, career pollies and union officials do go to uni and study something. I think Wayne Swan did economics in the 70's not sure how well he went because he has said stuff that any first year student can tell you is wrong.

Every member of both the Cabinet and the Shadow Cabinet has at least a Bachelor's Degree that I could find.

What's more, I - as someone with a degree in Economics - challenge you to quote Wayne Swan's words (with source, please) that "any first year student" can tell to be wrong. As opposed to, y'know, belonging to a different school of eocnomic thought (consider the freshwater/saltwater economics divide in the USA - anything an economist says from one will be decried as false by undergrad students at the other).

I guess this kind of debate occurs when the policies of the opposition are so vague that the only substantial argument is my guy has more degrees then your guy, nyah, nyah, nyah.

You a right running government isn't like running a business. The role of ministers is to enact the broad policy changes of their party and to ensure they are followed through. They don't run the government the bureaucracy does. I have friends who work in government at federal, state and local government. The problems they face are so complex, huge and time consuming that a few have burnt out and returned to the private sector.

[Blouman Empire]

1) So? Are they not a business? Do you have a problem with Slater and Gordon?
2) No, she didn't. 10 seconds on Google could tell you otherwise.
3) What even are the "big four global universities"? I've never heard of that term.

You're only worth something if Daddy can get you into Harvard.

Not only rich people go to Harvard, Bob Hawke went as a Rhodes Scholar, I know Beazly did as well.

[Costa Alegria]

It appears you don't have to be particularly well qualified to become a politician in the first place.