Is Religion A Mental Illness?

[Raeyh]

Just to clear things up, eternal punishment = being separated from God. Jesus mentioned fire, but he could be speaking literally. Gehenna (spelling?) is an actual place, it was the burning trash pile outside of cities. A lot of meaning is lost in translation. For example, Armegedon refers to Gemedo, a town surrounded by constant warfare.

When I said Gehenna, I meant to say Sheol. I am a bit rusty with Judo-Christian theology. Sorry about that.

[Grenartia]

Ok, so as some of you know, i have taken a firm IC stance on Religion being a mental illness. IRL, i feel the same way. However, i would like to know if any of you feel the same way.

I find that religion is illogical, unproven, and frankly, a load of ancient bullshit that has never really contributed anything to the world that outweighs the horrible things it has caused for thousands of years, (racism, sexism, burning at the stake, witchhunts, inquisitions, wars, etc.) and is furthermore a society-upgraded psychological illness induced by the ignorance of how the Universe works and the fear of death.

So, nationstates: Your thoughts.

So more than half the world population is mentally insane?
Interesting that we've been crazy for the past millenniums.

I'd say that 90% of the world is insane, simply because of the amount of injustice in the world, and how long it takes to begin to fix even some of it.

But I don't think religion by itself is a mental illness. I feel that blind faith without reason, without questioning is the mental illness.

[Indig0]

it's only a mental illness if a person claims to actually see or hear their god/angel/devil/demon. (there is the possibility though that what they are seeing or hearing is real, and if that's the case, then they aren't mentally ill.) if a person just believes in a religion without seeing or hearing anything supernatural, then they're just choosing to be duped by a fairytale. like kids believed in santa. that doesn't make all kids mentally ill.

[Cameroi]

kind of totally depends on what you mean by "religion". for those who think it is what fanatics think they are being without bothering to really learn anything about what they're claiming to be, probably yes.

there ARE other meanings and forms that belief, faith, call it what you will, is perfectly capable of taking.

[Evraim]

So more than half the world population is mentally insane?
Interesting that we've been crazy for the past millenniums.

I'd say that 90% of the world is insane, simply because of the amount of injustice in the world, and how long it takes to begin to fix even some of it.

But I don't think religion by itself is a mental illness. I feel that blind faith without reason, without questioning is the mental illness.

Is this using a psychological definition? Those people are crazy, but are they crazy?

I don't know if it can be called a mental illness or not, but I DO know for a fact that it is dangerous, that it is destructive, and that it is anti-human. How is it anti-human? Allow me to explain: Religion is about subordinating your free will and self-interest to a higher power that, regardless of factual presence, has done absolutely nothing to earn your devotion, nor is it deserved. It also demands silent, unquestioned conformity, the kind you would find in any collectivist society. The merits of the individual in a religion are irrelevant and all that matters is a so-called "greater good". A religion would sooner drive us all toward self-destruction than ever do anything of help to us. Indeed, many say that humanity, ESPECIALLY the individual, is inherently evil and that any who deviate from the "norm" are heretics to be burnt at the stake. In the end, I say we give the gods exactly what they deserve and kill them all. And for those who are very likely to take that last line all too literally, I mean we, as a species, should wake up, and abandon this madness known as faith once and for all. We need nothing to "worship" except for ourselves.

Religosity is not a mental illness. It isn't inherently dangerous either.

How does choosing to subordinate yourself to a higher power compromise your free will? If anything, it is an affirmation of said will. In developed countries, people do not generally utilize coercive means to gain converts to their respective religions. Also, presuming that the religious are correct in the characteristics and accomplishments they have attributed to their G-d(s), I would say that he/she/it/they has/have done quite alot to earn their devotion.

How does religion demand "silent, unquestioned conformity"? I would very much like you to provide concrete examples to support your assertions. After all, driving "us all toward self-destruction" as opposed to doing "anything to help us" doesn't exactly seem like emphasizing the "greater good".

No. I do not recall the last time Jews burned people at the stake. I also don't remember anything about the individual being any more wicked than humanity in general.

Worship ourselves? Why? If I'm going to embrace an atheistic world view, why should I venerate myself or humanity in general? As a collective whole, we've done rather terrible things. Would you happen to oppose all forms of collectivism and subordination perchance?

[The Archregimancy]

Are you kidding me. You're saying the Nazis were Atheists? Yeah, you're a joke. No sense talking to you anymore. By the way"


My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited.
-Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

*sighs* Go look up the very nice, large, and well researched post on Hitler and his religious beliefs by my fellow Mod, Arch.

Shall I make it easy for him?

I believe Nerv is referring to this post.

[Jensonian]

Please will one of you tell me WHY religion is so bad, because it supports morals? And yes, the crusades happened, because of corrupt people who were not following religion correctly, yes jihad happens, because of people who dot follow their religion correctly. The problems caused by religion is caused by people who don't follow religion Correctly, not by religion itself. A person who follows Christianity correctly loves all people, it is the second most important command in the bible, right behind love your god. Yes we will try to get you to see our way, but don't even atheists do that too? I qoute from the movie 3:10 to Yuma "Every man is right in his own eyes" .

If you want to get into that, Religions tell you to murder people sometimes, and sometimes love everyone, and Atheism tells you nothing. I'd rather have Atheism.

Please show me where the bible tells you to murder people, last time I checked "do not murder" was one of the ten commandments

[Germanehhhhh]

Wow, another liberal idiot who has no idea what he's saying..

[Ifreann]

Wow, another liberal idiot who has no idea what he's saying..

A less than auspicious beginning to your posting career.

[Eviliatopia]

Wow, another liberal idiot who has no idea what he's saying..

A less than auspicious beginning to your posting career.

That's a bit talibanesque, but you must admit that a troll thread doesn't deserve 42 pages of responses.

Religion a mental illness?

Seriously? SERIOUSLY????

[Ifreann]

A less than auspicious beginning to your posting career.

That's a bit talibanesque, but you must admit that a troll thread doesn't deserve 42 pages of responses.

Religion a mental illness?

Seriously? SERIOUSLY????

I've only been popping in and out rather than following the whole thing, but as far as I can tell then consensus is largely "No" or "No, but..."

[Raeyh]

Please show me where the bible tells you to murder people, last time I checked "do not murder" was one of the ten commandments

Any part of the bible that ends with "their blood shall be upon them," instructs you to kill people.

Actually somebody compiled all of them here: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/says_ ... pital.html

[The Cummunist State]

*sighs* Go look up the very nice, large, and well researched post on Hitler and his religious beliefs by my fellow Mod, Arch.

Shall I make it easy for him?

I believe Nerv is referring to this post.

You want me to make it easy for you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP_iNCGH9kY
Yes, it's true that he might not have been a Christian, but really, you can't bloody well ask him anymore now can you? You have to go off his word and the fact that Christians loved him. Also, if he wasn't a Christian by the end of it, as these walls of text seem to say, then it doesn't even matter that much. He still most likely believed in a god, and that's what we are talking about. Although I've made it clear in the past I do not like reading entire novels at one time and tend to read sideways to the point I might miss stuff, he still about 99% chance believed in a higher power. Seriously, calling Hitler a Atheist is like calling Obama a Muslim or Stalin a Buddhist. They COULD be. But the chance that they are is nearly null and at this point we just have to go off of what they said.
As it says it the video's discription: "Maybe Hitler was indeed an atheist. I don't know. Who can? But given what he said on the subject throughout his whole life, I'd find that position pretty hard to defend. And what it had to do with his evil acts... well you get the idea of what I think of that argument.

Astute viewers will notice that throughout the movie I don't blame Hitler's actions upon his being a Christian. Indeed -- was he a Christian?! Some may differ with me on this, but I say No, he wasn't. Not in any practical sense of the label. " And I agree with this.

[ROBOTIC-O-ROTICA]

So my thread about atheism being a mental illness is LOCKED, but this one continues?

Because both this thread and that thread are the same.
There's never a reason to have two threads on the same thing.

[The Archregimancy]

Shall I make it easy for him?

I believe Nerv is referring to this post.

You want me to make it easy for you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP_iNCGH9kY

Forgive me, but as university lecturer, I'd prefer to trust respectable histories written by acknowledged scholars rather than an amateur animated cartoon on YouTube.

I'm funny that way.

Also, the premise of that video in "addressing the absurd claim that Nazi atrocities are inextricably linked to atheism" is explicitly addressed - and fully agreed with - in the 'walls of text' that you apparently so disdain, and equally apparently haven't bothered to read in full. See the second spoiler:

I'm not trying to associate atheism or anti-theism (not quite the same thing) with Hitler in order to associate atheism with Nazism. I consider that argument as misleading as stating that Hitler was Catholic or Christian, and associating Nazism with theism.

So you're apparently not even disagreeing with one of the central premises of that 'wall of text'. I do realise that reading can be a terrible hardship for young people in the digital age, but you might want to consider giving it a try; you might actually learn something.

[The Cummunist State]

You want me to make it easy for you? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP_iNCGH9kY

Forgive me, but as university lecturer, I'd prefer to trust respectable histories written by acknowledged scholars rather than an amateur animated cartoon on YouTube.

I'm funny that way.

Also, the premise of that video in "addressing the absurd claim that Nazi atrocities are inextricably linked to atheism" is explicitly addressed - and fully agreed with - in the 'walls of text' that you apparently so disdain, and equally apparently haven't bothered to read in full. See the second spoiler:

I'm not trying to associate atheism or anti-theism (not quite the same thing) with Hitler in order to associate atheism with Nazism. I consider that argument as misleading as stating that Hitler was Catholic or Christian, and associating Nazism with theism.

So you're apparently not even disagreeing with one of the central premises of that 'wall of text'. I do realise that reading can be a terrible hardship for young people in the digital age, but you might want to consider giving it a try; you might actually learn something.

I'd rather not read a novel of something that is mere speculation about something that is fairly unlikely, thank you.

[Jormengand]

I'd rather not read a novel of something that is mere speculation about something that is fairly unlikely, thank you.

You mean, you don't want to have to admit you're wrong?

[Celephais]

I'd say that 90% of the world is insane, simply because of the amount of injustice in the world, and how long it takes to begin to fix even some of it.

If that is the case then insanity has no meaning.

But I don't think religion by itself is a mental illness. I feel that blind faith without reason, without questioning is the mental illness.

Atheists have those kind of deeply held irrational beliefs as well. Not generally related to theology or cosmology but there nonetheless. Blind faith without reasoning is a very human quality and just because it has psychological sources doesn't mean it's a mental illness. If that were the case then pretty much everyone would be mentally ill. It is the norm in most societies, especially the modern, 'secular' West, to fevently believe things that aren't demonstrably true and persecute people who question this.

[Ende]

Forgive me, but as university lecturer, I'd prefer to trust respectable histories written by acknowledged scholars rather than an amateur animated cartoon on YouTube.

I'm funny that way.

Also, the premise of that video in "addressing the absurd claim that Nazi atrocities are inextricably linked to atheism" is explicitly addressed - and fully agreed with - in the 'walls of text' that you apparently so disdain, and equally apparently haven't bothered to read in full. See the second spoiler:

I'm not trying to associate atheism or anti-theism (not quite the same thing) with Hitler in order to associate atheism with Nazism. I consider that argument as misleading as stating that Hitler was Catholic or Christian, and associating Nazism with theism.

So you're apparently not even disagreeing with one of the central premises of that 'wall of text'. I do realise that reading can be a terrible hardship for young people in the digital age, but you might want to consider giving it a try; you might actually learn something.

I'd rather not read a novel of something that is mere speculation about something that is fairly unlikely, thank you.

I'm a teenager, and I read the wall of text. You have no excuse. His sources were all reliable, varied, and quite detailed. Arch is a COLLEGE PROFESSOR. You can't get smarter than that. So you should probably, oh, go ahead and read it.

[Jormengand]

I'd say that 90% of the world is insane, simply because of the amount of injustice in the world, and how long it takes to begin to fix even some of it.

If that is the case then insanity has no meaning.

But I don't think religion by itself is a mental illness. I feel that blind faith without reason, without questioning is the mental illness.

Atheists have those kind of deeply held irrational beliefs as well. Not generally related to theology or cosmology but there nonetheless. Blind faith without reasoning is a very human quality and just because it has psychological sources doesn't mean it's a mental illness. If that were the case then pretty much everyone would be mentally ill. It is the norm in most societies, especially the modern, 'secular' West, to fevently believe things that aren't demonstrably true and persecute people who question this.

Except for 'language', 'minorities', and a few other things, numbers have no effect on definitions.
No. Most sensible people are very skeptical about unreasonable things.
Most people have some form of mental illness, just because there are so many. Paranoia, autism, OCD... The list goes on.
So... to be religeous then?

[The Cummunist State]

I'd rather not read a novel of something that is mere speculation about something that is fairly unlikely, thank you.

I'm a teenager, and I read the wall of text. You have no excuse. His sources were all reliable, varied, and quite detailed. Arch is a COLLEGE PROFESSOR. You can't get smarter than that. So you should probably, oh, go ahead and read it.

You do realize I'm 20 right? I just don't give a shit enough about a dead nazi who repeatedly proclaimed himself Christian to research it. I was just stating that people saying Hitler was a Atheist and this was the cause for all his atrocities are idiots. Did you even see me disagreeing with him? No. So you should, oh, I dunno, read what I'M saying.

[Celephais]

If that is the case then insanity has no meaning.



Atheists have those kind of deeply held irrational beliefs as well. Not generally related to theology or cosmology but there nonetheless. Blind faith without reasoning is a very human quality and just because it has psychological sources doesn't mean it's a mental illness. If that were the case then pretty much everyone would be mentally ill. It is the norm in most societies, especially the modern, 'secular' West, to fevently believe things that aren't demonstrably true and persecute people who question this.

Except for 'language', 'minorities', and a few other things, numbers have no effect on definitions.
No. Most sensible people are very skeptical about unreasonable things.
Most people have some form of mental illness, just because there are so many. Paranoia, autism, OCD... The list goes on.
So... to be religeous then?

I'm not responding to this unless you edit it so I can read it without feeling like I'm tripping.

[Ende]

I'm a teenager, and I read the wall of text. You have no excuse. His sources were all reliable, varied, and quite detailed. Arch is a COLLEGE PROFESSOR. You can't get smarter than that. So you should probably, oh, go ahead and read it.

You do realize I'm 20 right? I just don't give a shit enough about a dead nazi who repeatedly proclaimed himself Christian to research it. I was just stating that people saying Hitler was a Atheist and this was the cause for all his atrocities are idiots. Did you even see me disagreeing with him? No. So you should, oh, I dunno, read what I'M saying.

The underlined part is the only part I'd disagree with you on. You probably should read what he's saying as it's actually quite relevant to what you're saying.

[Jormengand]

I'm not responding to this unless you edit it so I can read it without feeling like I'm tripping.

"If that is the case then insanity has no meaning."

Except for 'language', 'minorities', and a few other things, numbers have no effect on definitions.

"Atheists have those kind of deeply held irrational beliefs as well. Not generally related to theology or cosmology but there nonetheless. Blind faith without reasoning is a very human quality"

No. Most sensible people are very skeptical about unreasonable things.

"If that were the case then pretty much everyone would be mentally ill."

Most people have some form of mental illness, just because there are so many. Paranoia, autism, OCD... The list goes on.

"It is the norm in most societies, especially the modern, 'secular' West, to fevently believe things that aren't demonstrably true and persecute people who question this."

So... to be religeous then?

Better?

[The Cummunist State]

You do realize I'm 20 right? I just don't give a shit enough about a dead nazi who repeatedly proclaimed himself Christian to research it. I was just stating that people saying Hitler was a Atheist and this was the cause for all his atrocities are idiots. Did you even see me disagreeing with him? No. So you should, oh, I dunno, read what I'M saying.

The underlined part is the only part I'd disagree with you on. You probably should read what he's saying as it's actually quite relevant to what you're saying.

Again, if you read what I was saying, I did read it. I just tend to read diagonally, and the longer the text gets, the more stuff I miss. I was saying that because I realized I quite may have skipped over something because I don't have all that much time in the day to read things.