Some questions to the LGBT community

[Celephais]

I could be wrong about this(being a straight, white man I'm not what you might call an expert in the adversity faced by teh gheyz*), but I dare say there's only a small number of those certain countries.

Yeah but they have the whole 'pride' thing as well.

*#firstworldproblems

Auschwitz was a first world problem

[Ifreann]

I could be wrong about this(being a straight, white man I'm not what you might call an expert in the adversity faced by teh gheyz*), but I dare say there's only a small number of those certain countries.

Yeah but they have the whole 'pride' thing as well.

Well if there are gay people living somewhere where society treats them pretty much exactly as they would if they were straight, then I'll grant that Gay Pride Parades there may be unnecessary. Though I'm unaware of any such place, and even then there's a case for supporting their oppressed fellows abroad.

[Celephais]

There's not much in the way of discrimination or unfair treatment here in England. The whole "pride" thing does seem to be going out of fashion though.

[Ifreann]

There's not much in the way of discrimination or unfair treatment here in England. The whole "pride" thing does seem to be going out of fashion though.

There still isn't proper gay marriage in Britain yet, unless they sneaked it in today without anyone noticing.

[Alyakia]

There's not much in the way of discrimination or unfair treatment here in England. The whole "pride" thing does seem to be going out of fashion though.

There still isn't proper gay marriage in Britain yet, unless they sneaked it in today without anyone noticing.

Well, not long now at least. :v

[Alyakia]

There still isn't proper gay marriage in Britain yet, unless they sneaked it in today without anyone noticing.

Well, not long now at least. :v

oh god

what if it happens in scotland but not in england & wales. it'll be 1753 all over agin.

[Celephais]

There still isn't proper gay marriage in Britain yet, unless they sneaked it in today without anyone noticing.

That's hardly discrimination and bad treatment on the level that warranted the original gay pride movements, with their message along the lines of "It's not something to be ashamed of". The debate in Britain is not generally between gay rights activists and "beat the fuckers up and get them back in the closets" gay-bashers. Otherwise I wouldn't have signed the c4m petition.

Homophobia is, I think, a spent force in Britain for the most part.

[Tacenda]

Recently I realised my bisexual identity and I want to pose some questions to the LGBT community.

Congratulations, it's something that can take people a while to work out

Why should bisexuals and gays belong to the same community and organisation?

Because we are in the same boat in a lot of places (we both face discrimination). As for the relationship between us bi's and the rest of the community, by in large it's gotten a lot better than it had been. When I first came out there was still a strong feeling that we "were getting to have our cake and eat it too" when it came to public acceptance (including marriage)because part of our identity (liking members of the opposite sex) is more socially acceptable. There was also a very strong vibe of "pick one or the other". Not to say that you still won't find those feelings in the GLBT community, it's just that they're not as predominant.

What is the point of having flags.Heterosexuals don't have flags.Why should we have flags?

The flippant answer via Eddie Izzard's Do you have a flag? skit.

And if flags are needed for some reasons, the current flags were not democratically chosen in a contest but rather just 'prevailed'.

Wikipedia has a much more thorough history than I'll put here. Basically the rainbow flag was one man's design that caught on with people. Back in the days when he first designed it, the out GLBT community was rather small and very "condensed" as to where people could be out at (San Francisco was one of the main places). So when the out population of San Fransisco started using it as their symbol, it got passed to the other cities there were large populations in and it caught on from there. Of course, we have other symbols that are used for either all or parts of the community (pink triangles, interlinked gender symbols, etc.).

What is the purpose of pride parades?

Visibility, mainly. And don't worry, you're not the only one who face palms over the more outlandish behavior at some of them. Just remember that the most flamboyant displays are the ones that stick out.

[Jormengand]

Not where I come from that doesn't happen - it's considered about as crazy as saying, for example autistic people have something majorly wrong with them, and are crazy people who should be ignored and made to feel like shit.

And Alyakia, it's called personal experience. Maybe It'd help if you read the sixth word in my sig

The sixth word? Bisexual? Fuck, guess that overrides my personal experience and the personal experience of other trans people. (And I guess every other poster.)

Yes, my views on you are better than your views on my views on you.

[Alyakia]

The sixth word? Bisexual? Fuck, guess that overrides my personal experience and the personal experience of other trans people. (And I guess every other poster.)

Yes, my views on you are better than your views on my views on you.

Sounded more like "my views on peoples views on you are better than your views on peoples views on you", unless you're also secretly a lesbian and have managed to be GL and B at the same time in a feat that would stump even the most creative of doujin authors.

[Jormengand]

Yes, my views on you are better than your views on my views on you.

Sounded more like "my views on peoples views on you are better than your views on peoples views on you", unless you're also secretly a lesbian and have managed to be GL and B at the same time in a feat that would embarras even the most creative of doujin authors.

how about "The views of all the GLB people who I happen to know, and was creative enough to ask, are better than your views on their views" or "My views on the views of people including me are better than your views on the views of people including me"? Both are obviously correct, intuitive and relevant, at least to the topic you chose to discuss, which has little to do with the questions the OP asked anyway. So, can we just cut it here, and at the very least agree to disagree?

[Grave_n_idle]

Curse those queers and their godless understanding of which number is bigger.

Math is gay.

It's like numerical orgy soup. Bi-sect this. Tri-angle that.

Jesus would not have approved.

[Keceas]

I really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

"...same damn thing...", "...what the hell is..."

Someone seems to be using a lot of anger language.

Why would you be so bent out of shape by the sexuality of someone else?

It's not about their sexuality it's about people seemingly making labels for things that have already been named. It seems like people are just making them up now. As for the what the hell, that's not anger, it's a string of words. What the hell is not always said in anger.It is said often as a question. In this case, it refers to having a hard time finding a clear definition for it. Have you never heard someone use those words in an emotional context other than anger?

[Grave_n_idle]

"...same damn thing...", "...what the hell is..."

Someone seems to be using a lot of anger language.

Why would you be so bent out of shape by the sexuality of someone else?

It's not about their sexuality it's about people seemingly making labels for things that have already been named.

I know what you mean. Like renaming 'British traitors' to 'Americans'. Why coin that little label for them when there was already a name for what they were. Right?

[Ceannairceach]

It's not about their sexuality it's about people seemingly making labels for things that have already been named.

I know what you mean. Like renaming 'British traitors' to 'Americans'. Why coin that little label for them when there was already a name for what they were. Right?

I personally would prefer to be an Antibritish than an American, but that's just me.

really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

Pansexuality is different from bisexuality in that bisexuals are attracted to both genders and sexes, and pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of gender or sex, and sometimes species. I have heard it defined as "pansexuals are attracted to transpeople and bisexuals are not", but I think that is rather simplistic, and not wholly true.

As for genderqueer, to quote wikipedia, genderqueer is a catchall term for people who identify as:

both man and woman (bigender, pangender);
neither man nor woman (genderless, agender);
moving between genders (genderfluid);[2]
third gender or other-gendered; includes those who do not place a name to their gender;[3]
having an overlap of, or blurred lines between, gender identity and sexual orientation.[4][5]

[Motuka]

really think there are only three orientations, hetero, bi, and homo. Pansexuality and the like just seems to be the same damn thing as bisexuality with a different name. Just what the hell is genderqueer anyway?

Pansexuality is different from bisexuality in that bisexuals are attracted to both genders and sexes, and pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of gender or sex, and sometimes species. I have heard it defined as "pansexuals are attracted to transpeople and bisexuals are not", but I think that is rather simplistic, and not wholly true.

That makes it a fairly useful social codeword, much like "cisgendered", though. Like a shorter way of saying "Hi I will treat transpeople like normal humans". And let's be honest here, less than ten percent of the population would ever be interested in dating a trans-person. We're kind of a specialty item that way :P

You're right though; "pansexual" as a term means basically the same thing as bisexual (attracted to people regardless of gender) but is used as a label by those who feel that "bisexual" reinforces binary gender too much. A pansexual is not necessarily attracted to third-gendered people or whatever, they just accept that such people exist.

[Bottle]

Pansexuality is different from bisexuality in that bisexuals are attracted to both genders and sexes, and pansexuals are attracted to people regardless of gender or sex, and sometimes species. I have heard it defined as "pansexuals are attracted to transpeople and bisexuals are not", but I think that is rather simplistic, and not wholly true.

That makes it a fairly useful social codeword, much like "cisgendered", though. Like a shorter way of saying "Hi I will treat transpeople like normal humans". And let's be honest here, less than ten percent of the population would ever be interested in dating a trans-person. We're kind of a specialty item that way

You're right though; "pansexual" as a term means basically the same thing as bisexual (attracted to people regardless of gender) but is used as a label by those who feel that "bisexual" reinforces binary gender too much. A pansexual is not necessarily attracted to third-gendered people or whatever, they just accept that such people exist.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I don't like "bisexual." I don't see male and female as two completely separate categories. Indeed, my personal preference runs strongly toward androgynous individuals.

[Metanih]

I generally think that the whole strength in numbers thing is the most significant part of this. Also, a lot of smaller, less well known parts of the non cisgendered heterosexual community are too small to do well on their own.
For example, I still get weird looks when I tell people I am a genderqueer pansexual. Also, both of those words got little red squiggly lines under them, so spell check obviously hasn't caught on either.

[Bottle]

I generally think that the whole strength in numbers thing is the most significant part of this. Also, a lot of smaller, less well known parts of the non cisgendered heterosexual community are too small to do well on their own.
For example, I still get weird looks when I tell people I am a genderqueer pansexual. Also, both of those words got little red squiggly lines under them, so spell check obviously hasn't caught on either.

I just tell people I'm queer. If they request further information, I reply that my sexual orientation is toward hotties and my sexual identity is "other." If they request further information, I insist that they buy me dinner first.

[Ceannairceach]

I generally think that the whole strength in numbers thing is the most significant part of this. Also, a lot of smaller, less well known parts of the non cisgendered heterosexual community are too small to do well on their own.
For example, I still get weird looks when I tell people I am a genderqueer pansexual. Also, both of those words got little red squiggly lines under them, so spell check obviously hasn't caught on either.

I just tell people I'm queer. If they request further information, I reply that my sexual orientation is toward hotties and my sexual identity is "other." If they request further information, I insist that they buy me dinner first.

I like this method very, very much.

[Faolinn]

It's not about their sexuality it's about people seemingly making labels for things that have already been named.

I know what you mean. Like renaming 'British traitors' to 'Americans'. Why coin that little label for them when there was already a name for what they were. Right?

I think you totally missed his point.

[Bottle]

I just tell people I'm queer. If they request further information, I reply that my sexual orientation is toward hotties and my sexual identity is "other." If they request further information, I insist that they buy me dinner first.

I like this method very, very much.

It has been refined by years of gleeful slutting.

[Grave_n_idle]

I know what you mean. Like renaming 'British traitors' to 'Americans'. Why coin that little label for them when there was already a name for what they were. Right?

I think you totally missed his point.

I don't think I did. I do, however, think it was very charitable of you to describe what he had as a 'point'.

[Walrusfolk Eurarcta]

1. Yeah. Even being in the whole LGBT thing, I must say that we're killing ourselves by trying to be more inclusive. It's gone from LGB to LGBT to LGBTQA... I'm not saying that inclusion is wrong, but this acronym is getting ridiculous. I'm not joking, I saw a poster at my college that sported "LGBTQA-" and then about 20 other letters (including like 3 'A's). This acronym is just silly now.

2. Well, both are sexual orientation minorities that are discriminated against. So that grouping makes sense, I guess.

3. Flags are awesome. Don't insult flags. There is never a reason to not have a flag.

4. No. Democracy is stupid. I say let's just use whatever flag we want, and the best one's will rise to the top. I mean, holding an election for a FLAG?? Seem kinda pointless.

5. I don't know. They are quite silly things indeed.

[Faolinn]

I think you totally missed his point.

I don't think I did. I do, however, think it was very charitable of you to describe what he had as a 'point'.

Think about it. A pansexual likes men and women. Unless humans were to discover an alien race with functional hermaphrodites, it's kind of pointless to come up with another label. :/