**Living in a new country**

[The Atlantian islands]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

[Buffett and Colbert]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Spain? I thought you were talking about Mexico.

Dirty? Messy? Loth ethpañoleth thon muy nítidoth...

[Grave_n_idle]

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is.

Sounds believable. People do that all the time.

[Gift-of-god]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

Ella es una venezolana...

No?

[Natapoc]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

You know what you all need to do together? Go to the beach by Barcelona together and have sum fun Every country has dirty/clean places (except France. It is always dirty )

[NERVUN]

So, NSG, I want to hear about memorable experiences that you have gone through or are going through? Have you ever moved to a different country, and if so, what was it like? Did you end up staying, or moving back to your home country? What were the immediate things you liked and things you disliked?

As I'm sure everyone on the board knows, I moved from the US to Japan 5 years ago. When I first came, it struck me on just how clean everything is. Tokyo is the world's largest city and there's very little garbage, very little graphiti, and even the homeless keep neat camps (And given I was used to Reno or the Bay Area, this was amazing). There's also the difference in customer service. In America, I often felt that I was imposing on a store when I went in and wanted to foolishly give them my money in exchange for something. Silly me, I thought that was the purpose of stores after all. If I asked for help, it always seemed (From the attitute of the clerk) that I was some sort of rude idiot when I asked, "Excuse me, but do you carry this?" This is vs Japan where even in McDonalds they seem actually happy to see me and serve. Where, even though there's a language issue, I've yet to have a clerk blow me off because of it (It HAS happened in the US to my wife a few times when a clerk decided that since my wife has a small accent, he or she didn't want to deal with her). Then of course there's the famous Japanese obsession with time, when they say you can set your watch by the trains, they mean it.

That said, things that have annoyed me is Japan's idea that function follows form. I've seen a lot of things that are done just to look just so, such as people working late into the night because they dare not go home before the boss, even if they don't HAVE any actual work. There's a lot of times where I've seen waste in terms of manhours or materials just so that everyone can say that they had a meeting or that someone was detailed just to bow to passing cars because a construction project needs traffic to move over about half a foot.

Am I going to go back home? Maybe, but I'm now on year 5 which is usually when you get rid of your short-timer status and get long-timer (If not lifer) and we have no actual date of return to work towards. Besides, I do actually like it here.

Natto excepted of course.

[Gift-of-god]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

Ella es una venezolana...

No?

If I recall correctly, she is a Spaniard who lives in Venezuela, but goes back often to Spain. I may be wrong.

[Buffett and Colbert]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

Ella es una venezolana...

No?

If I recall correctly, she is a Spaniard who lives in Venezuela, but goes back often to Spain. I may be wrong.

Ah pues, I'm probably wrong.

[Czardas]

Excellent topic. I am about to move to the UK (from Germany) for one year of studying. About to move means that the suitcase is packed, the train tickets are bought and the alarm clock is set to 6 am. tomorrow, I will leave the FRG for the longest time ever. While I am not that concerned about the language, it will be an issue for me. I am scared and looking forward at the same time.


BTW: Any other NSisto in Southampton, UK?

Good luck. The key is making friends as fast as possible by being very social and going out alot so you don't sit at home and dwell on things. After a few days of this, if you are having a good time, you should have no problem.

That, or retreat into yourself and become an enigmatic recluse. If you choose this path, I also recommend wearing trenchcoats, and talking to birds. Moreover, always pause for at least five seconds before responding to anything anyone asks you, and speak slowly in a sort of creepy monotone when you do.


It always works for me. Well, except the trenchcoats. I've never been able to pull those off. I've had to settle for just wearing sunglasses at night.

[Sibirsky]

So, NSG, I want to hear about memorable experiences that you have gone through or are going through? Have you ever moved to a different country, and if so, what was it like? Did you end up staying, or moving back to your home country? What were the immediate things you liked and things you disliked?

As I'm sure everyone on the board knows, I moved from the US to Japan 5 years ago. When I first came, it struck me on just how clean everything is. Tokyo is the world's largest city and there's very little garbage, very little graphiti, and even the homeless keep neat camps (And given I was used to Reno or the Bay Area, this was amazing). There's also the difference in customer service. In America, I often felt that I was imposing on a store when I went in and wanted to foolishly give them my money in exchange for something. Silly me, I thought that was the purpose of stores after all. If I asked for help, it always seemed (From the attitute of the clerk) that I was some sort of rude idiot when I asked, "Excuse me, but do you carry this?" This is vs Japan where even in McDonalds they seem actually happy to see me and serve. Where, even though there's a language issue, I've yet to have a clerk blow me off because of it (It HAS happened in the US to my wife a few times when a clerk decided that since my wife has a small accent, he or she didn't want to deal with her). Then of course there's the famous Japanese obsession with time, when they say you can set your watch by the trains, they mean it.

That said, things that have annoyed me is Japan's idea that function follows form. I've seen a lot of things that are done just to look just so, such as people working late into the night because they dare not go home before the boss, even if they don't HAVE any actual work. There's a lot of times where I've seen waste in terms of manhours or materials just so that everyone can say that they had a meeting or that someone was detailed just to bow to passing cars because a construction project needs traffic to move over about half a foot.

Am I going to go back home? Maybe, but I'm now on year 5 which is usually when you get rid of your short-timer status and get long-timer (If not lifer) and we have no actual date of return to work towards. Besides, I do actually like it here.

Natto excepted of course.

Interesting. I leave work before my boss roughly 2-3 times per week. He leaves earlier the other half of the time.

[Samatolian City-States]

No. The worst place in America was better than any place in the USSR not reserved for the ruling elite.

Heh. Classless society, they said to me...

[Sibirsky]

No. The worst place in America was better than any place in the USSR not reserved for the ruling elite.

Heh. Classless society, they said to me...

If you don't count the ruling elite, it was close to having just one class of people. I mean, a doctor still made more than a janitor, but not much more. You would not find income differences like you have in the US for instance.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

Ella es una venezolana...

No?

If I recall correctly, she is a Spaniard who lives in Venezuela, but goes back often to Spain. I may be wrong.

She is half-Spanish, half-Venezuelan. She indeed goes back to Spain as often as she can. Her family keeps strong ties to the Peninsula. To me, she's always ''mi paisana''.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Dirty? Messy? Loth ethpañoleth thon muy nítidoth...

Tío, es que te voy a dar un ostiazo.

[Aelosia]

I want to move to Spain, regarding that, I must say that everything the OP said about Spain is, either relative to only the zone or city he is living in, or outright false. I have visited Spain many, many times, and overall all my visits have fared better than my visits to the USA.

You're right, I am lying about the place I actually enjoy living in to make it sound more shitty than it actually is. . . . Oh wait, how ridiculous. Are you denying that these problems plague much of Spain, and are very much displayed in the underdeveloped south?

I am denying that those problems are endemic to Spain as a whole. I said that your claims were either false, or from a zone I'm not totally familiar with, (I have been to Seville only once, and it was a tourist venture, not an extended visit). You could had gone with the option of "Maybe it is the zone I am living", but you decided to go with the "false" one. That gives me additional data about your honesty, truly.

There are certain problems endemic to certain areas. In Barcelona, for example, running water is completely crap, and its taste is so horrible that I have doubts is potable, but otherwise the city, its inhabitants, and Catalunya in general is way, way more clean than New York. (I say New York because I know that your critics have as a point of reference the USA). Andalucía, where you are staying, have endemic problems of machismo.

Then again, I do know a lot about Galicia, the Basque Country, Cayalunya and Madrid, having visited those places several times, and there, your claims are false.

Spain? I thought you were talking about Mexico.

Dirty? Messy? Loth ethpañoleth thon muy nítidoth...

Yeah, everyone knows we the sudacas are the marranos.

This is vs Japan where even in McDonalds they seem actually happy to see me and serve. Where, even though there's a language issue, I've yet to have a clerk blow me off because of it (It HAS happened in the US to my wife a few times when a clerk decided that since my wife has a small accent, he or she didn't want to deal with her). Then of course there's the famous Japanese obsession with time, when they say you can set your watch by the trains, they mean it.

Yeah, a train in Tsukuba left me because I was like 20 seconds LATE. Do you know what I found weird? The thing with the money in stores. How they say "I am receiving 400 yen and blablabla", and how they manage money with those little trays, as to avoid giving money from hand to hand. That was impressive.

I'll tell a japanese story, we, a bunch of foreigners went to a restaurant in Mito city, and one of us, a peruvian, asked for a fork, because he was really going to have a hard time eating with chopsticks. The waiter went red and left in a hurry, and he came back like 20 minutes after that. During that time, we all were complaining on why it was taking so long for the waiter to get the fork, and that it was the first place in which service was crap since we were in Japan.

When the guy came with the fork, he apologized A LOT, then removed my companion food and replaced it with the same dish, but untouched and warm one. One norwegian, who was fluent in japanese asked why it took it so long for him, and only got apologies. Needless to say, the fork was really funny, with a plastic handle with a Mickey Mouse motif, not really in accordance with the luxury of the restaurant.

Eventually, and thanks to a japanese guide and friend of us, we found the truth. The restaurant didn't have any forks. The waiter went to all nearby stores to buy one and bring it to our table. That is why it took him so long. They didn't charge the fork in the bill. That is what I call "Going far away beyond the line of duty" for a waiter. I haven't found another country where that kind of thing can happen.

That said, things that have annoyed me is Japan's idea that function follows form. I've seen a lot of things that are done just to look just so, such as people working late into the night because they dare not go home before the boss, even if they don't HAVE any actual work. There's a lot of times where I've seen waste in terms of manhours or materials just so that everyone can say that they had a meeting or that someone was detailed just to bow to passing cars because a construction project needs traffic to move over about half a foot.

Living in a country where people leave early even if they have job to do, I found that thing about leaving both ridiculous and funny. I, however, found a lot of opposition from young people to that kind of customs.

Natto excepted of course.

That demon-brewed conconction worth of a witch's pot do not deserve to exist in any country, and the japanese should pay a tax for consuming something so disgusting.

Since Aelosia is actually Spanish, I would think she has somewhat more experience than you in terms of having a picture of Spanish life. Note that she also said that you were either lying or simply attributing the local problems to the country in general.

Ella es una venezolana...

No?

If I recall correctly, she is a Spaniard who lives in Venezuela, but goes back often to Spain. I may be wrong.

I am both. I am venezuelan, and spanish. God bless double nationality. I do live in Venezuela, but I usually travel to Spain, usually once a year, to visit friends and family. It has been more than a year since the last time I went there, however, given that I have been visiting other countries. I will move to Spain definitively next year.

[Aelosia]

She is half-Spanish, half-Venezuelan. She indeed goes back to Spain as often as she can. Her family keeps strong ties to the Peninsula. To me, she's always ''mi paisana''.

Te quiero paisana.

And what do you think, it is true that the andaluces are a bunch of worthless pigs, although easy going and funny? (Sadly, I have to inform the boards that I asked my father about this, and he said that TAI was right, and that Seville is a sewer of a place, although the people is warm and comical. However, my father is a basque 80 years old retired jesuit priest, so I can't say he is not biased against that zone in particular).

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

She is half-Spanish, half-Venezuelan. She indeed goes back to Spain as often as she can. Her family keeps strong ties to the Peninsula. To me, she's always ''mi paisana''.

Te quiero paisana.

And what do you think, it is true that the andaluces are a bunch of worthless pigs, although easy going and funny? (Sadly, I have to inform the boards that I asked my father about this, and he said that TAI was right, and that Seville is a sewer of a place, although the people is warm and comical. However, my father is a basque 80 years old retired jesuit priest, so I can't say he is not biased against that zone in particular).

You know, I've been to Andalucía, several times, and I found it to be enchanting. The andaluces are charming, hardworking and love their province, and when people are charming and hardworking like they are, on my book, they're not worthless pigs.

Seville is what it is due to the large amount of tourists it recieves. Tourists that are rowdy, obnoxious and that have contributed to the decline of the city. But when tourists go away, gracias a Dios, things are pretty normal.

I don't take kindly when foreigners like TAI speak out of their asses. He's been living, actually living in Spain, for what, less than a week, and is already spouting crap? Pffft, digamos que el tío lo que sabe es hablar mierda.

As for your father, well, you know the conflicts about nationalism back home. I can understand your dad's prejudice. Euskal Herría is always in ''jaque mate'' with the rest of the Peninsula, but I don't blame them.

[Nodinia]

Considering he arrived with his considerable "anglo saxon" snobbery, its hardly suprising he's managed to find fault, regardless of whether its there or not.....

[Veblenia]

I moved from Canada to a Caribbean island for about a year and a half, to work at a resort. Moving from SW Ontario to a tropical island of about 30 000 people was a pretty intense shift. My ex-wife was particularly cutlure shocked, which made it a lot harder for me to adjust, as well.

In a lot of ways it was an isolating experience. The island was a pretty closed society, and it was hard to break in socially. I wish I'd tried harder to overcome the social divisions The islanders tended to be wary of foreigners; I worked alongside some of them, and once we got to know eachother we got along great, but white strangers were assumed to be either tourists or wealthy expats. The small clique of foreign millionaires, with rare exceptions, were unbearable to be around. They led insular, privileged lives and had little to talk about except themselves, eachother, and a shared disdain for the locals. The island had a veterinary school, too, that had a student population of privileged Americans, who...well...did a lot of cocaine as far as I can tell. Just married and with a small child, it wasn't quite my scene.

Food was a difficulty. Almost everything came from off-island, and the grocery stores were ill-stocked and dingy by the standards of Canadian suburbs. There was a local market, but that was even more offensive to our sensibilities--I think, if I were to go back now, I'd be better about it. At any rate, we wound up eating a lot of processed, pre-packaged food, to the point where I still feel queasy walking past the frozen aisles in supermarkets.

I also hated my job, but that's not really the island's fault. I learned some terrible lessons about the tourist industry and its impact on host countries.

On the other hand, the climate was spectacular. I loved morning walks on deserted beaches, and that perpetual sunny, mid-20s. My tolerance for Canadian winter is ruined for good. There are people down there that I miss. In spite of working for a global hotel chain, too, I felt "unplugged" from global North consumerism, and in retrospect I really appreciate that experience, even if it did take some getting used to. I often think about going back, at least for a visit as I can't figure out how I'd be able to live there again without working for the hotels.

[Call to power]

wait do I see Spaniards trying to suggest Southern Europe is clean? *pets the stray animals*

BTW: Any other NSisto in Southampton, UK?

I can always hop on a train down (though I must point out that Northampton is superior) but really you want to pop PM a line seeing as how hes way closer and has like lived there and stuff

you'll enjoy living in England were pretty much Germany anyway just remember that Southampton is pretty sketchy on a Saturday night

[The Atlantian islands]

So, NSG, I want to hear about memorable experiences that you have gone through or are going through? Have you ever moved to a different country, and if so, what was it like? Did you end up staying, or moving back to your home country? What were the immediate things you liked and things you disliked?

As I'm sure everyone on the board knows, I moved from the US to Japan 5 years ago. When I first came, it struck me on just how clean everything is. Tokyo is the world's largest city and there's very little garbage, very little graphiti, and even the homeless keep neat camps (And given I was used to Reno or the Bay Area, this was amazing). There's also the difference in customer service. In America, I often felt that I was imposing on a store when I went in and wanted to foolishly give them my money in exchange for something. Silly me, I thought that was the purpose of stores after all. If I asked for help, it always seemed (From the attitute of the clerk) that I was some sort of rude idiot when I asked, "Excuse me, but do you carry this?" This is vs Japan where even in McDonalds they seem actually happy to see me and serve. Where, even though there's a language issue, I've yet to have a clerk blow me off because of it (It HAS happened in the US to my wife a few times when a clerk decided that since my wife has a small accent, he or she didn't want to deal with her). Then of course there's the famous Japanese obsession with time, when they say you can set your watch by the trains, they mean it.

That said, things that have annoyed me is Japan's idea that function follows form. I've seen a lot of things that are done just to look just so, such as people working late into the night because they dare not go home before the boss, even if they don't HAVE any actual work. There's a lot of times where I've seen waste in terms of manhours or materials just so that everyone can say that they had a meeting or that someone was detailed just to bow to passing cars because a construction project needs traffic to move over about half a foot.

Am I going to go back home? Maybe, but I'm now on year 5 which is usually when you get rid of your short-timer status and get long-timer (If not lifer) and we have no actual date of return to work towards. Besides, I do actually like it here.

Natto excepted of course.

Yeah, I knew your story already from back in the day. Always thought it was admirable that you could just move to such a different, foreign culture. I am big on travel so anyone that can do that (well) has plus-points in my book.

[The Atlantian islands]

wait do I see Spaniards trying to suggest Southern Europe is clean? *pets the stray animals*

It's all relative. Madrid is clean compared to Barcelona and Barcelona is clean compared to Seville. But not as "clean' compared with Central/Northern Europe and like America. It's also not just how things are dirty, but the idea of constant upkeep doesn't really exist here. It does more in Madrid than southern Spain, however.

[The Atlantian islands]

I am denying that those problems are endemic to Spain as a whole. I said that your claims were either false, or from a zone I'm not totally familiar with, (I have been to Seville only once, and it was a tourist venture, not an extended visit). You could had gone with the option of "Maybe it is the zone I am living", but you decided to go with the "false" one. That gives me additional data about your honesty, truly.

There are certain problems endemic to certain areas. In Barcelona, for example, running water is completely crap, and its taste is so horrible that I have doubts is potable, but otherwise the city, its inhabitants, and Catalunya in general is way, way more clean than New York. (I say New York because I know that your critics have as a point of reference the USA). Andalucía, where you are staying, have endemic problems of machismo.

Then again, I do know a lot about Galicia, the Basque Country, Cayalunya and Madrid, having visited those places several times, and there, your claims are false.

Everyone knows that southern Spain (Andalucia in particular) is largely the most underdeveloped part of Spain. Yes, it is my zone but it no secret to the non-Latin world that Southern Europe tends to be more dirty, less efficient, more relaxed and more underdeveloped than Central or Northern Europe (and America/Canada). It's just that in Spain, they are further less-developed areas, like the south. So IN Spain Northern parts of Spain would be considered developed and clean when compared to like Andalucia, but Spain in general when compared to America/Canada, Northern and Western Europe would be, in general, more dirty, more underdeveloped and less efficient.

What I didn't like about Barcelona was that many, many people there seemed really dirty and dressed awful(like extremely a-social). Was a fabolous and fun city though and I loved alot of the art and architecture.

I really, really want to visit the Basuqe Country.

[The Atlantian islands]

And what do you think, it is true that the andaluces are a bunch of worthless pigs, although easy going and funny? (Sadly, I have to inform the boards that I asked my father about this, and he said that TAI was right, and that Seville is a sewer of a place, although the people is warm and comical. However, my father is a basque 80 years old retired jesuit priest, so I can't say he is not biased against that zone in particular).

I'd like to see where I claimed the people here are worthless pigs? I am actually very much enjoying my time here and everyone has been wonderful to me.

As to what your father said, I was just having this discussion with a friend who likes the lifestyle here. She said that here people are just more relaxed and don't care so much about work and progress, efficiency and neatness, but rather about friends, family and just enjoying life. It just depends on what the qualities that you look for in a society are.