Mitt Romney-is it safe to have a Mormon as President?

[Salandriagado]

The fact that he's a crazy bigot is a reason to not want him as president. His religion isn't.

And if said religion is chock full of crazy bigots that had to be yanked slowly towards equality and yet still pushes divisiveness given the chance, then it's not a reason?

Not on its own.

[Putria]

Mormonism is one of the stupidest system of beliefs that I've ever seen, equatable with scientology. I can't believe that anyone in their right goddamn mind could ever believe in that pile of shit.
The stuff that Romney has done in the past in regards to mormonism is pretty astounding.

I find your insults petty, groundless, and uninformed.

Petty, maybe. I'll give you that. I tend to go over the top sometimes.
But groundless and uninformed, no. Do you think, that after you die you get your own planet? That your messiah is a guy who found some magic blocks that said Missouri was the garden of Eden?

You are sadly, misinformed sir.

[Eleutheria]

Mormons pumped money into the Proposition 8 campaign in California.

Don't tell me they wouldn't be dangerous gay rights and possibly race relations if they had a direct hand in government.

The fact that he's a crazy bigot is a reason to not want him as president. His religion isn't.

Unfortunatley the two are connected, Mormons preach both a racist and a homophobic doctrine, stating the black people are a "lesser but special creature made by God" and also stating that "blackness came upon Cain’s descendants and the children of canaan, who were despised among all people. This blackness marked them worthy of slavery to the world of Adam and Israel." they are also extremely homophobic saying "unnatural inclinations will be punished case by case and extremely if need be, for so-called gays and lesbians show a moral instability which is often a sign of mental instability" because Romney was a mormon missionary for some time we can presume that this racism and homophobia is something that he agrees with, and something that might affect his presidency. He is a "crazy bigot" in part because of his religion.

[Sociobiology]

It is not safe to have Mitt Romney as president. Him being a mormon has nothing to do with it.

[Putria]

The fact that he's a crazy bigot is a reason to not want him as president. His religion isn't.

Unfortunatley the two are connected, Mormons preach both a racist and a homophobic doctrine, stating the black people are a "lesser but special creature made by God" and also stating that "blackness came upon Cain’s descendants and the children of canaan, who were despised among all people. This blackness marked them worthy of slavery to the world of Adam and Israel." they are also extremely homophobic saying "unnatural inclinations will be punished case by case and extremely if need be, for so-called gays and lesbians show a moral instability which is often a sign of mental instability" because Romney was a mormon missionary for some time we can presume that this racism and homophobia is something that he agrees with, and something that might affect his presidency. He is a "crazy bigot" in part because of his religion.

I feel like your claims of Racism, at least in the modern church, are extremely unfounded considering that the LDS Church has millions of African, as well as those of African descent, within its members and rankings. The Qurom of the 70 has over 15 Black Members.

[Gauthier]

The fact that he's a crazy bigot is a reason to not want him as president. His religion isn't.

Unfortunatley the two are connected, Mormons preach both a racist and a homophobic doctrine, stating the black people are a "lesser but special creature made by God" and also stating that "blackness came upon Cain’s descendants and the children of canaan, who were despised among all people. This blackness marked them worthy of slavery to the world of Adam and Israel." they are also extremely homophobic saying "unnatural inclinations will be punished case by case and extremely if need be, for so-called gays and lesbians show a moral instability which is often a sign of mental instability" because Romney was a mormon missionary for some time we can presume that this racism and homophobia is something that he agrees with, and something that might affect his presidency. He is a "crazy bigot" in part because of his religion.

And for those who say "And this bothers me how?" there's also the delicious Mormon habit of converting Holocaust victims to Mormonism post-mortem.

[Gauthier]

Unfortunatley the two are connected, Mormons preach both a racist and a homophobic doctrine, stating the black people are a "lesser but special creature made by God" and also stating that "blackness came upon Cain’s descendants and the children of canaan, who were despised among all people. This blackness marked them worthy of slavery to the world of Adam and Israel." they are also extremely homophobic saying "unnatural inclinations will be punished case by case and extremely if need be, for so-called gays and lesbians show a moral instability which is often a sign of mental instability" because Romney was a mormon missionary for some time we can presume that this racism and homophobia is something that he agrees with, and something that might affect his presidency. He is a "crazy bigot" in part because of his religion.

I feel like your claims of Racism, at least in the modern church, are extremely unfounded considering that the LDS Church has millions of African, as well as those of African descent, within its members and rankings. The Qurom of the 70 has over 15 Black Members.

But not until late into the 20th century.

[Putria]

Unfortunatley the two are connected, Mormons preach both a racist and a homophobic doctrine, stating the black people are a "lesser but special creature made by God" and also stating that "blackness came upon Cain’s descendants and the children of canaan, who were despised among all people. This blackness marked them worthy of slavery to the world of Adam and Israel." they are also extremely homophobic saying "unnatural inclinations will be punished case by case and extremely if need be, for so-called gays and lesbians show a moral instability which is often a sign of mental instability" because Romney was a mormon missionary for some time we can presume that this racism and homophobia is something that he agrees with, and something that might affect his presidency. He is a "crazy bigot" in part because of his religion.

And for those who say "And this bothers me how?" there's also the delicious Mormon habit of converting Holocaust victims to Mormonism post-mortem.

Also false... Geez. Baptism's for the Dead can only be done if the Family submits the records to do so.

[Putria]

I feel like your claims of Racism, at least in the modern church, are extremely unfounded considering that the LDS Church has millions of African, as well as those of African descent, within its members and rankings. The Qurom of the 70 has over 15 Black Members.

But not until late into the 20th century.

That and every other institution in the United States. To be entirely secular, in the response.

[Gauthier]

And for those who say "And this bothers me how?" there's also the delicious Mormon habit of converting Holocaust victims to Mormonism post-mortem.

Also false... Geez. Baptism's for the Dead can only be done if the Family submits the records to do so.

WhatchutalkinboutWillis?

Mormons Still Baptizing Dead Jews Despite Agreements to End Practice

Oh and here's a real cherry topping:

Mormons baptize Holocaust victim Anne Frank posthumously, says report

[Putria]

Also false... Geez. Baptism's for the Dead can only be done if the Family submits the records to do so.

WhatchutalkinboutWillis?

Mormons Still Baptizing Dead Jews Despite Agreements to End Practice

Oh and here's a real cherry topping:

Mormons baptize Holocaust victim Anne Frank posthumously, says report

Those news sources are entirely unreliable.

Secondly, Baptism for the Dead is not converting non-living people to the LDS Faith. It is their belief that in the afterlife, Baptism is a requirement to enter into the Kingdom of God. Pretty common, right? In the After life, those who have been baptized have the ability to deny Baptism if they so wish.

[Eleutheria]

And for those who say "And this bothers me how?" there's also the delicious Mormon habit of converting Holocaust victims to Mormonism post-mortem.

Also false... Geez. Baptism's for the Dead can only be done if the Family submits the records to do so.

Not according to the BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17036046 they baptised this mans parents (holocaust victims) without their permission, infact they are doing this to thousands of holocaust victims, surely you are not claimly that the BBC is an "Unreliable source" I believe they found the records by looking through death certificates of holocaust victims, they did it in secret for some years until recently, im no sure that they've stopped.

[Farnhamia]

WhatchutalkinboutWillis?

Mormons Still Baptizing Dead Jews Despite Agreements to End Practice

Oh and here's a real cherry topping:

Mormons baptize Holocaust victim Anne Frank posthumously, says report

Those news sources are entirely unreliable.

Secondly, Baptism for the Dead is not converting non-living people to the LDS Faith. It is their belief that in the afterlife, Baptism is a requirement to enter into the Kingdom of God. Pretty common, right? In the After life, those who have been baptized have the ability to deny Baptism if they so wish.

Yeah, well ... some people seem to resent the LDS church baptizing their relatives posthumously. I know, go figure, but they do.

Oh, and is this more reliable? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/us/utah-mormons-apologize-for-baptism.html?scp=1&sq=Mormon%20baptism&st=cse

[Putria]

Those news sources are entirely unreliable.

Secondly, Baptism for the Dead is not converting non-living people to the LDS Faith. It is their belief that in the afterlife, Baptism is a requirement to enter into the Kingdom of God. Pretty common, right? In the After life, those who have been baptized have the ability to deny Baptism if they so wish.

Yeah, well ... some people seem to resent the LDS church baptizing their relatives posthumously. I know, go figure, but they do.

Oh, and is this more reliable? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/us/utah-mormons-apologize-for-baptism.html?scp=1&sq=Mormon%20baptism&st=cse

I could see the issue, but it isn't like we dig up graves and baptize corpses. They merely say a prayer, with two witnesses, one baptizing and one about to be dunked; both alive. I've done Baptisms for dead Prussian soldiers who died fighting Napoleon; their records were sent to us from Germany though if I recall correctly.

[Indira]

To be honest with you, I really don't see what his faith has to do with anything. Unless it influences him so pronouncedly that it becomes his sole driving force. Then I'd be worried. But seriously, pick on his policies and approaches to the issues of the day. THAT should be more important

[Eleutheria]

Yeah, well ... some people seem to resent the LDS church baptizing their relatives posthumously. I know, go figure, but they do.

Oh, and is this more reliable? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/us/utah-mormons-apologize-for-baptism.html?scp=1&sq=Mormon%20baptism&st=cse

I could see the issue, but it isn't like we dig up graves and baptize corpses. They merely say a prayer, with two witnesses, one baptizing and one about to be dunked; both alive. I've done Baptisms for dead Prussian soldiers who died fighting Napoleon; their records were sent to us from Germany though if I recall correctly.

Were they sent with the families consent? The BBC stated that the holocaust victims didnt give consent for this posthumous baptising of their loved ones (which i remind you means for some of them that their dead loved ones might be denied access to the afterlife-depending on their faith)

[Farnhamia]

Yeah, well ... some people seem to resent the LDS church baptizing their relatives posthumously. I know, go figure, but they do.

Oh, and is this more reliable? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/us/utah-mormons-apologize-for-baptism.html?scp=1&sq=Mormon%20baptism&st=cse

I could see the issue, but it isn't like we dig up graves and baptize corpses. They merely say a prayer, with two witnesses, one baptizing and one about to be dunked; both alive. I've done Baptisms for dead Prussian soldiers who died fighting Napoleon; their records were sent to us from Germany though if I recall correctly.

No one said you dig up corpses. Don't you think it rude to "baptize" Jews into a Christian religion without permission, even if they're dead? I do. You wouldn't like it if some other religion did the same for Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, I suspect.

[EnragedMaldivians]

The fact that he's a crazy bigot is a reason to not want him as president. His religion isn't.

And if said religion is chock full of crazy bigots that had to be yanked slowly towards equality and yet still pushes divisiveness given the chance, then it's not a reason?

Look at your sig.

Tell me what's the difference between refusing to vote for someone because s/he is a Sunni and refusing to vote for someone because he's Mormon?

If Mitt Romney is a Mormon who will actually defer to scripture as a basis for policy, fair enough - but not voting for him just because he is Mormon is exactly like not voting for someone because s/he is Sunni/Catholic/Whatever.

Yeah, well ... some people seem to resent the LDS church baptizing their relatives posthumously. I know, go figure, but they do.

Oh, and is this more reliable? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/15/us/utah-mormons-apologize-for-baptism.html?scp=1&sq=Mormon%20baptism&st=cse

I could see the issue, but it isn't like we dig up graves and baptize corpses. They merely say a prayer, with two witnesses, one baptizing and one about to be dunked; both alive. I've done Baptisms for dead Prussian soldiers who died fighting Napoleon; their records were sent to us from Germany though if I recall correctly.

That is (as Farnhamia points out) a bit rude, to be honest.

[Gauthier]

And if said religion is chock full of crazy bigots that had to be yanked slowly towards equality and yet still pushes divisiveness given the chance, then it's not a reason?

Look at your sig.

Tell me what's the difference between refusing to vote for someone because s/he is a Sunni and refusing to vote for someone because he's Mormon?

If a Mitt Romney is a Mormon who will actually defer to scripture as a basis for policy, fair enough - but not voting for him just because he is Mormon is exactly like not voting for someone because s/he is Sunni/Catholic/Whatever.

Except far as I can tell there isn't any significant sectarian split amongst the Mormons. Plus when was the last time Muslims pumped money into an American campaign to legalize discrimination? Proposition 8 is proof that Mormons would try to subvert law to suit their bigotted beliefs given the opportunity. Can't say Muslims as a whole would try to do something similar in the United States given a chance.

[Putria]

I could see the issue, but it isn't like we dig up graves and baptize corpses. They merely say a prayer, with two witnesses, one baptizing and one about to be dunked; both alive. I've done Baptisms for dead Prussian soldiers who died fighting Napoleon; their records were sent to us from Germany though if I recall correctly.

No one said you dig up corpses. Don't you think it rude to "baptize" Jews into a Christian religion without permission, even if they're dead? I do. You wouldn't like it if some other religion did the same for Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, I suspect.

We don't "baptize" them into a Christian Religion; from a secular point of view it is difficult to describe what is being offered. Once again, in the after-life, in the FAITH, those who are offered the Gift of Baptism have the Free Agency to deny it. It is entirely up to them.

[Farnhamia]

No one said you dig up corpses. Don't you think it rude to "baptize" Jews into a Christian religion without permission, even if they're dead? I do. You wouldn't like it if some other religion did the same for Joseph Smith and Brigham Young, I suspect.

We don't "baptize" them into a Christian Religion; from a secular point of view it is difficult to describe what is being offered. Once again, in the after-life, in the FAITH, those who are offered the Gift of Baptism have the Free Agency to deny it. It is entirely up to them.

It's still rude. They don't believe in your afterlife, or your faith, or Jesus or the Angel Moroni. Performing a Mormon ritual, as innocuous as it may seem, is offensive to members of other faiths. You do understand how it might, don't you?

[Putria]

We don't "baptize" them into a Christian Religion; from a secular point of view it is difficult to describe what is being offered. Once again, in the after-life, in the FAITH, those who are offered the Gift of Baptism have the Free Agency to deny it. It is entirely up to them.

It's still rude. They don't believe in your afterlife, or your faith, or Jesus or the Angel Moroni. Performing a Mormon ritual, as innocuous as it may seem, is offensive to members of other faiths. You do understand how it might, don't you?

I would have to be ignorant to not see how offensive thay may be to some faiths, I personally would be honored if a Jewish faith offered me a similiar gift, but that is because I was raised in a different Religious culture. But our Commandments are already given; we cannot simply stop because popular demand says so.

[Farnhamia]

It's still rude. They don't believe in your afterlife, or your faith, or Jesus or the Angel Moroni. Performing a Mormon ritual, as innocuous as it may seem, is offensive to members of other faiths. You do understand how it might, don't you?

I would have to be ignorant to not see how offensive thay may be to some faiths, I personally would be honored if a Jewish faith offered me a similiar gift, but that is because I was raised in a different Religious culture. But our Commandments are already given; we cannot simply stop because popular demand says so.

Yes, actually, you can stop. You can say, we'll only do this if asked. I think you claimed that was the case anyway.

[Muktukia]

Also false... Geez. Baptism's for the Dead can only be done if the Family submits the records to do so.

WhatchutalkinboutWillis?

Mormons Still Baptizing Dead Jews Despite Agreements to End Practice

Oh and here's a real cherry topping:

Mormons baptize Holocaust victim Anne Frank posthumously, says report

Ohmagawd they were doing what was, in their own eyes, "good". Burn their unrighteous souls with fire.
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that those heathens weren't baptizing those individuals with the intent to gain money, right? Or fame, power, women, etc.?
As stated previously, Mormons believe that to enter Heaven, you need to be baptized. Similar to another church that tells you your baby's goin to Hell if it dies before being baptized, except an individual can be baptized after death. These people were, if they were members of the actual LDS Church and not some random offshoot, doing what they "knew", in the same sense that any religious person "knows" something, that they were doing the right thing.
I'm not actually a Mormon, but I go to the church every Sunday due to my adoptive family being members. I've gone to seminary, youth conference, the dances, and (the waiting room of) a Temple, and I honestly don't see what the big deal is. I rub elbows with them constantly, sometimes even by choice, and they seem as normal as every other religious folk I've met: slightly off, but with personalities so varied that your bound to find at least one you can like. I have Jewish friends. I'm never gonna convert to their religion. I have gay friends. I'm not gonna become gay. Heck, I have friends who are football players. I'm not gonna play football. We have a presidential candidate who's Mormon, and it's the end of life as we know it because "Morons" (really clever by the way, gee, how'd ya think of that one) are twisted black-souled demons.

Also, the title of this thread makes me sad for people.

[Bottle]

It's still rude. They don't believe in your afterlife, or your faith, or Jesus or the Angel Moroni. Performing a Mormon ritual, as innocuous as it may seem, is offensive to members of other faiths. You do understand how it might, don't you?

I would have to be ignorant to not see how offensive thay may be to some faiths, I personally would be honored if a Jewish faith offered me a similiar gift, but that is because I was raised in a different Religious culture. But our Commandments are already given; we cannot simply stop because popular demand says so.

If you are seriously arguing that you are incapable of stopping when somebody says stop because your religion tells you to do something, then you just provided an absolutely convincing argument for why NOBODY of your faith should ever be allowed to serve in public office. Hell, you're making a good case for why you shouldn't be permitted to walk free at all...

Now, I personally think you're quite capable of stopping when people say stop. I think you choose to continue doing things that you know are offensive and rude, for a range of reasons which all just boil down to garden variety character flaws and cultural problems. I don't think your rudeness is actually a sign that Mormonism is a pathology, it's just a sign that you, personally, are acting like a jerk. I wouldn't vote for YOU for that reason, but I also wouldn't automatically hold it against all people who are Mormon.