Racial Purity? Is it really that important?

[Farnhamia]

Pfft, humility is for das untermensch.

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

In German they are capitalized, not in English.

[Mad Monarch]

LIES! CM is pretty as fuck. I'd totally have sex with him.

Aw, why thanks. (Ego +10)

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

Oh, other languages and your silly rules. Don't they know only English is allowed to have rules?

English has rules? I thought we just told our pet monkeys to slam on the keyboard.

Sorry Bobo, looks like I have to fire you

[Gabhra]

English has rules? I thought we just told our pet monkeys to slam on the keyboard.

Sorry Bobo, looks like I have to fire you

I'm putting that in my signature.

[Ovisterra]

LIES! CM is pretty as fuck. I'd totally have sex with him.

Aw, why thanks. (Ego +10)

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

Oh, other languages and your silly rules. Don't they know only English is allowed to have rules?

The language with over 400 irregular verbs?

[Farnhamia]

Aw, why thanks. (Ego +10)

Oh, other languages and your silly rules. Don't they know only English is allowed to have rules?

The language with over 400 irregular verbs?

Keeps you on your toes.

[Zairoon]

Why would racial purity matter to anyone but a racist? Care to elaborate on that?

Well, I think that with distinct ethnic groups comes distinct cultures, food, and other things that are really important to humanity. When you lose ethnic heritage, I think you lose those things.

Cultures are lost all the time- not just because of ethnic reasons, but due to wars, natural disasters and so on. Sometimes entire cultures can just fade away for little or no reason.
Even when you do mix races, this doesn't mean the cultures are lost. Sometimes, this even makes new cultures- the Creoles of Haiti, Louisiana and Guinea-Bissau are probably the best examples of this. But this isn't a rare occurance. Almost all cultures in the world originated from the combination of various other cultures- British culture, for instance, has elements of cultures from all across Europe- the Romans, the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons and the Scandinavians are just four groups who's cultural impact can be seen in modern Britain.
(This all coming from a mixed-race person. Not that it makes me an expert or anything.)

[Yootwopia]

Pfft, humility is for das untermensch.

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

Untermenschen is the plural form, cmon.

[Northwest Slobovia]

If there is hybrid vigor, sure. But's it's not a guarantee. For starters, "biologically compatible" isn't a strict yes-or-no effect; even between closely related species* there's often some gene flow, but even the fertile hybrids often aren't in all that great shape. That's just the way the evolutionary cookie crumbles.

*: Some people seems confused about "species": they're are not a "law of nature", but just crude concept we made up a long time ago. Animals boink what seems appropriate, and if the result is viable offspring, all the better. Modern scientific concepts of species and speciation are a bit fuzzier because we're aware of the "not a law of nature" bit.

Except that in order for those Native Americans to diverge enough to create enough of a difference that it's like comparing horses and donkeys, then it would take a few million years, not a few hundred thousand. After only a short time, they'd still be close enough that any "hybrid" wouldn't suffer any such problems as that.

Well...

The time it takes depends on how strongly differential selective pressure is applied to the isolated populations of our species. Generally -- <hand-wave size=immense> -- we think of significant evolutionary changes as taking tens or hundreds of generations. But that's not a hard-and-fast rule. With great enough selective pressure, it's possible to get noticable change in just a generation or two. We mostly see that in artificial selection, but there are some examples where populations have been exposed to really intense natural selective pressures, to the point where a population dies off to just a small number of members, and there's a significant genetic bottleneck at that point.

The only example I can think of off-hand in humans is in African-Americans, and specifically those whose ancestors were slaves. Modern African-Americans tend to suffer more problems with high blood pressure (and related illnesses, such as heart disease and stroke) because their bodies retain more salt than "white folks". This is believed to be because loading up on salt is a fine way to survive dehydration, which happened frequently on slave ships. That selective pressure was applied for only a "few" generations (~1620 to 1808), but the effect is pretty pronounced in terms of modern populations' morbidity and mortality.

It's currently detrimental to African-Americans... but imagine a situation where global climate becomes so unstable that erratic severe drought occurs (Dust Bowls on a continental scale). Those "racially pure" white folks may all kick off from thirst, and the black shall inherit the Earth Americas.

</hand-wave>

[Conserative Morality]

The language with over 400 irregular verbs?

Keeps you on your toes.

It's good for your memory.

[Farnhamia]

Keeps you on your toes.

It's good for your memory.

Exactly, like doing crosswords or sudoku. I try to conjugate several times a day, personally.

[Tekania]

Yes, racial purity is very important. Else you end up with handsome, intelligent, creative abominations like myself!

You forgot humble.

[Northwest Slobovia]

Well, I think that with distinct ethnic groups comes distinct cultures, food, and other things that are really important to humanity. When you lose ethnic heritage, I think you lose those things.

Cultures are lost all the time- not just because of ethnic reasons, but due to wars, natural disasters and so on. Sometimes entire cultures can just fade away for little or no reason.
Even when you do mix races, this doesn't mean the cultures are lost. Sometimes, this even makes new cultures- the Creoles of Haiti, Louisiana and Guinea-Bissau are probably the best examples of this. But this isn't a rare occurance. Almost all cultures in the world originated from the combination of various other cultures- British culture, for instance, has elements of cultures from all across Europe- the Romans, the Normans, the Anglo-Saxons and the Scandinavians are just four groups who's cultural impact can be seen in modern Britain.

Yeah, I'm having a hard time coming up with a modern culture that hasn't been influenced by "other races/cultures" at some point or another.

[Sathera]

Pfft, humility is for das untermensch.

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

You spelled it wrong. 'Die Unterminsche' isn't a word. That means 'The Under minsche', and I think we both know 'Minsche' isn't a word. The term you're looking for is 'Die Untermensch,' with the 'e' replacing the 'i' and removing the 'e' at the end.

[Olthar]

Except that in order for those Native Americans to diverge enough to create enough of a difference that it's like comparing horses and donkeys, then it would take a few million years, not a few hundred thousand. After only a short time, they'd still be close enough that any "hybrid" wouldn't suffer any such problems as that.

Well...

The time it takes depends on how strongly differential selective pressure is applied to the isolated populations of our species. Generally -- <hand-wave size=immense> -- we think of significant evolutionary changes as taking tens or hundreds of generations. But that's not a hard-and-fast rule. With great enough selective pressure, it's possible to get noticable change in just a generation or two. We mostly see that in artificial selection, but there are some examples where populations have been exposed to really intense natural selective pressures, to the point where a population dies off to just a small number of members, and there's a significant genetic bottleneck at that point.

The only example I can think of off-hand in humans is in African-Americans, and specifically those whose ancestors were slaves. Modern African-Americans tend to suffer more problems with high blood pressure (and related illnesses, such as heart disease and stroke) because their bodies retain more salt than "white folks". This is believed to be because loading up on salt is a fine way to survive dehydration, which happened frequently on slave ships. That selective pressure was applied for only a "few" generations (~1620 to 1808), but the effect is pretty pronounced in terms of modern populations' morbidity and mortality.

It's currently detrimental to African-Americans... but imagine a situation where global climate becomes so unstable that erratic severe drought occurs (Dust Bowls on a continental scale). Those "racially pure" white folks may all kick off from thirst, and the black shall inherit the Earth Americas.

</hand-wave>

True, but such changes aren't enough to create significant divergent paths. For example, African-Americans can breed perfectly fine with other Americans without any negative interbreeding effects. It's not like people who are half black/half white are the human equivalent of mules or anything. Yes, you are correct that unique traits can arise from only a few hundred generations, but adding only a couple unique traits isn't enough to differentiate two groups of creatures enough that they cease being similar enough to produce viable offspring. Such changes require dozens, if not more, unique traits.

[Farnhamia]

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

You spelled it wrong. 'Die Unterminsche' isn't a word. That means 'The Under minsche', and I think we both know 'Minsche' isn't a word. The term you're looking for is 'Die Untermensch,' with the 'e' replacing the 'i' and removing the 'e' at the end.

I knew we were too easy on the Germans after Varus' disaster.

[Yootwopia]

Die Unterminsche. It's plural, and nouns take a capital. Grammar Nazi in two languages.

You spelled it wrong. 'Die Unterminsche' isn't a word. That means 'The Under minsche', and I think we both know 'Minsche' isn't a word. The term you're looking for is 'Die Untermensch,' with the 'e' replacing the 'i' and removing the 'e' at the end.

Assume he meant the plural form.

[Sathera]

You spelled it wrong. 'Die Unterminsche' isn't a word. That means 'The Under minsche', and I think we both know 'Minsche' isn't a word. The term you're looking for is 'Die Untermensch,' with the 'e' replacing the 'i' and removing the 'e' at the end.

Assume he meant the plural form.

Still, it's not spelled with an 'i'.

[Ravineworld]

Well, I think that with distinct ethnic groups comes distinct cultures, food, and other things that are really important to humanity. When you lose ethnic heritage, I think you lose those things.

*scrunches forehead*

that isn't how it works. Cultures don't spontaneously die out unless you murder them with fire. They blend. You are very bad at hiding your racist side.

Is wanting there to be a next generation of your race that is somewhat pure really racist? I want cultures and people to remain alive and well, not hurt cultures and races and people.I want there to be pure cultures and racists for all people to enjoy and watch and live with, not one where there is only one, blended, mulitcultural culture.

[Yootwopia]

Assume he meant the plural form.

Still, it's not spelled with an 'i'.

Aye I'm aware, did spell it out a few posts up and all that.

[Ryadn]

Does anyone keep reading after "I am not a racist"?

[Mavorpen]

Is wanting there to be a next generation of your race that is somewhat pure really racist? I want cultures and people to remain alive and well, not hurt cultures and races and people.I want there to be pure cultures and racists for all people to enjoy and watch and live with, not one where there is only one, blended, mulitcultural culture.

Cultures change. Honestly, it's not a big deal.

[Ovisterra]

Does anyone keep reading after "I am not a racist"?

I stopped taking it seriously.

[AustriaHungaryBohemia]

First of all, the idea of clearly separated "races" and "cultures" is unrealistic. There are always mixes at the border, and any division has, by necessity, a large degree of arbitrariness. What is "white"? White skin? A certain set of ancestors? A certain genetic marker?

[Lakeland]

Hooboy... look at all the liberal holier than thou types jumping in this one to proclaim their "moral superiority".

Just to inject a little science into this, "races" as in white, black, yellow do not technically exist as the hard and fast groups that we know them as, though ethnic groups do and there are genetic markers that roughly correspond to them, note the map at the bottom of the post. Recent studies have shown that humans are at most about 99-99.5% genetically similar compare that to our nearest extant animal relative which is about 96% similar or Neanderthals which were estimated to be about 99.5% similar, so the differences are not trivial. This does not necessarily imply any "superiority" or "inferiority" between populations, but they are different. I should also note that to my knowledge none of these estimates take into account epigenetics, which is a very new field of which we know very little.

As to choosing who you marry, I don't see how wanting your kids to have blonde, red hair, black curly hair, white skin, black skin, or any other combination of traits should be immediately pounced upon as abhorrent. To use an argument right out of the liberal play book with regards to homosexual coupling. How does a person's selection of a partner effect your life in the least?

Thought Experiment: Suppose however we found one group of humans to be smarter than others, also suppose we found this was due to genetics. Would this be the "end of the world as we knew it?" and that "There was nothing that could be done now to make us all 'equal'" Absolutely not, because in an age of gene therapy, designer babies and the like, if we isolate a genetic component to intelligence or any trait for that matter it can be added to your new test tube baby. We can already select hair and eye color in in-vitro fertilization, does anyone think we'll stop there?

If you care to educate yourself a bit on this, this documentary may help you understand.

Password is "hjernevask".

Brainwash 6:7 - Race

Not to mention these links...

Human Genome Project page

Wikipedia - Race and Genetics

In fact the reason we can track migration patterns of early humans is due to our evolution over the past several hundred thousand years, again see map...

Basic information about haplotypes

Right click and "view image" to see full image it's a bit cut off in the Americas.


Unless you're willing to argue "genes are a social construct" I'm afraid you can't get past the reality of race/ethnicity after all

[Mad Monarch]

*scrunches forehead*

that isn't how it works. Cultures don't spontaneously die out unless you murder them with fire. They blend. You are very bad at hiding your racist side.

Is wanting there to be a next generation of your race that is somewhat pure really racist? I want cultures and people to remain alive and well, not hurt cultures and races and people.I want there to be pure cultures and racists for all people to enjoy and watch and live with, not one where there is only one, blended, mulitcultural culture.

There will never be one culture. Cultures mix, but they never all mix in one perfect soup. The US, a very diverse nation, would have 1 unique culture by now if it was possible. But it just hasn't happened. If you meet someone from New York and then meet someone from Florida, without knowing where they are from, I can almost guarantee you would think they are from completely different countries.