Income Taxes: Are They Theft?

[Wikkiwallana]

And deflation steals from anyone with a savings account.

What? Deflation adds to anyone with a savings account.

You do know what deflation is, correct?

Sorry, read wikipedia wrong, was in a hurry, the correct expression was "punishes anyone who owes any money".

[Yootwopia]

Err yes it does, though. The problem is that a shitty model has been created. This is the problem that almost all of economics has in almost every area.

How does it know?

It doesn't, the "yeah" was to "it does not measure the true rate of inflation". Which is, of course, the whole point. If you're not measuring what people are Actually Spending In Actual Proper Life, you aren't measuring inflation. You're measuring what ought to be inflation, which is obviously a crap metric, only of use to Soviet planners and undertheorising economists.

No. But then it is no longer measuring a constant cost of living. Which is the point.

This is again a problem with deficient models written by aspergics, then, isn't it?

[Forsher]

Sib, I'm a little confused about your position on Fiat currency's worth. Could you elaborate?

Don't worry I'm being ignored too. Although possibly because what I said is not worth discussing.

[United Dependencies]

Government doesn't "give" itself the right.

It has the right by virtue of being our government.

Um.... Check your logic. What the fuck is "virtue of being our government"? Pure mysticism.

Government's are necessary for any well ordered society. Taxes are necessary for any government to function properly.

Governments have the right to tax because that is the only way they can sustain themselves.

[Wikkiwallana]

Conceded.

Is every member of an english-speaking society a theif?

Yes, because English steals words willy-nilly from other languages.

It's the subject of one of my favorite quotes:

The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

Edit: typo

[Sibirsky]

That's not the real world at all. That's the InfoWars and Lew Rockwell version of the world, which is about as true to the real world as Candy Land is.

Oh, and by the way: The NDAA and AUMF powers are actually Constitutional, as the Constitution grants the Administrative branch suspension of Habeus Corpus during invasion and insurrection, ie wartime, and we are in wartime, so don't even try to make that argument.

When was fucking war declared?

Oh, you missed the part that only congress can declare war?

Are you right about anything?

[Vousielle]

I don't think people these days read enough Rousseau.

[Patriqvinia]

When someone is incapable of making a contract, it doesn't mean the contract just happens, since the person is unable to make the contract. That's entirely putting the car before the horse.

The contract happened at 18. Did you even read what I wrote?

If you don't have full citizenship at birth, then that means the contract is not fully enumerated.

There's still the matter of where I signed? Living to age 18 is not a valid entry condition for a contract since there is still no consent to contract given.

[Sibirsky]

Fiat currency fails at #3 by design. It has to. I mean, it can do it ok, for short periods of time, here and there, but in the long term, it cannot.

Wrong.

How? How will you avoid defaults if you do not increase the money supply?

[New Rogernomics]

That's because the object of "Staying" is essential to determine that taxes are a fee instead of a theft.

By "Staying" you consent to taxes.

No. By staying, I acknowledge that I have no choice to go. The fact of the matter is that renouncing my citizenship does NOT absolve me of my "responsibilities" to the US gov't. Once a citizen, always owe taxes. If I were to leave, I'd owe. I could not leave with the entirety of the monetary value of my property either. It is prohibited. I must pay a tax, to keep my money, that is proportional to the amount of wealth I maintain... and I must pay taxes.

Taxes are theft. Forever.

Eh? You can have taxation without theft whatsoever, its called voluntary taxation, though that depends on the level of coercion and the consequences involved from leaving the tax structure, with many services being under the monopoly or control of the state. Those that don't wish to pay tax don't have to, and can die from lack of education, health-care, and vise versa. The rich can avoid being involved in the system, and squander their wealth without serving the interests of the state. You could call that unethical, but its not theft.

[Sibirsky]

A declining standard of living for grandma?

Fuck that bitch. She deserves it.

Surely the problem there is people being tight and using fixed payments rather than adjusting for inflation?

Her payments are adjusted for inflation.

[Sibirsky]

Sibirsky ran away from both of my debates again. He and his comrades seem to really like doing that

The fuck are you on?

Don't call me a comrade either.

[Yootwopia]

Surely the problem there is people being tight and using fixed payments rather than adjusting for inflation?

Her payments are adjusted for inflation.

Assuming it's CPI, the baboushka shouldn't have a declining standard of living?

[Vousielle]

Sibirsky ran away from both of my debates again. He and his comrades seem to really like doing that

The fuck are you on?

Don't call me a comrade either.

Comrade just means brother-in-arms, co-believer. Chillax.

[Wikkiwallana]

Oh, and by the way: The NDAA and AUMF powers are actually Constitutional, as the Constitution grants the Administrative branch suspension of Habeus Corpus during invasion and insurrection, ie wartime, and we are in wartime, so don't even try to make that argument.

When was fucking war declared?

Oh, you missed the part that only congress can declare war?

Are you right about anything?

AUMF stands for Authorization for Use of Military Force. It passed both houses. Congress declared war.

Edit: typo

[Sibirsky]

It's likely he moved on to more appealing discussions.

So he admits defeat? 2.5 people beaten in one thread.

Break out the party hats

You haven't proven shit in this thread. Other than your own incompetence.

[Death Metal]

That's not the real world at all. That's the InfoWars and Lew Rockwell version of the world, which is about as true to the real world as Candy Land is.

Apparently you also have no idea what the Bill of Rights is.

Oh, you're talking about the reproductive aid thing?

Yeah, that's not really religious persecution, it's business regulation. It's not like Obama wants condoms to be passed out in churches.

[Yootwopia]

It's not like Obama wants condoms to be passed out in churches.

Shame, really.

[Sibirsky]

What is your point, exactly?

That everywhere has a bullshit currency that serves its purpose and is replaced by something 'better' but not?

Decrying fiat currencies as being without value by design is an underanalysis of currency as a Thing.

I didn't say "without" value by design. I said "declining" value. Which is mostly correct.

[Wikkiwallana]

Surely the problem there is people being tight and using fixed payments rather than adjusting for inflation?

Her payments are adjusted for inflation.

If her payments are adjusted for inflation, the how is she getting less money?

[Sibirsky]

Sib, I'm a little confused about your position on Fiat currency's worth. Could you elaborate?

What do you mean it's worth? It's worth measured how?

We can measure it in anything. Like other fiat currencies. Or commodities. I don't understand the question.

[Patriqvinia]

Um.... Check your logic. What the fuck is "virtue of being our government"? Pure mysticism.

Government's are necessary for any well ordered society. Taxes are necessary for any government to function properly.

Governments have the right to tax because that is the only way they can sustain themselves.

You've got a series of loosely connected premises that in no way justify the previous circular argument. Nevermind the fact that "well-ordered" societies have existed in the past without taxes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Commonwealth
http://badquaker.com/archives/554
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_a ... ommunities

[Hydesland]

Wrong.

How? How will you avoid defaults if you do not increase the money supply?

Private or public? Private: if all debts are profitable, an increase in M would correspond to an increase in Y, not P, so prices would remain stable. Public: by not running deficits.

How do you avoid defaults in a gold standard?

[Death Metal]

Are you right about anything?

[/quote]

Unlike you? Yes.

[Zeppy]

Oh, you're talking about the reproductive aid thing?

Yeah, that's not really religious persecution, it's business regulation. It's not like Obama wants condoms to be passed out in churches.