Income Taxes: Are They Theft?

[New Genoa]

You know what, you're right. My argument is one that stems from a social contract argument. I don't play the social contract game either, so allow me to revise my argument to this one:

Taxes are not theft:
1.By virtue of their definitions in the english language
2.Because of their necessity in any well ordered society.

I told you why it is in error to use the "legal right" definition (George is right because George says he's right).
Argument from necessity does not make it "not theft."

"It's theft because I say it's theft"

[Mad Monarch]

Lol! They would go so far into the red if they gave their services away for free while asking for payment. A "promotion" is a once in a while giveaway. In this case, it would be a scenario happening, at best, every other time.

You said it never happened.
In any case, it's a "bill me later" situation. Insurance could even cover it.

Yes, bill me later

So, after everything I owned is destroyed, I'm supposed to pay you now? And if I say no, what are you going to do? Not only can they probably not pay you, the service you provided has already been rendered with no real contract signed. Sorry, once again, that is not how business works.

[Patriqvinia]

The Patriot Act does not deny rights? Really?
What happened before Lawrence V. Texas?

Yeah. The last one that was remotely close to it (warrentless tracking) was recently struck down by SCOTUS.

And pre-Lawrence, you could be arrested for being a homosexual. However, the system works in that you can't be arrested for being a homosexual anymore.

They're still doing it.
We're still not addressing the fact that citizens can be denied a trial by being reclassified as "terrorists."

Pre-Lawrence, the system didn't work.

[Patriqvinia]

I told you why it is in error to use the "legal right" definition (George is right because George says he's right).
Argument from necessity does not make it "not theft."

"It's theft because I say it's theft"

No, that would be a fallacy. It's theft because something is taken from you without your consent.

[United Dependencies]

I told you why it is in error to use the "legal right" definition (George is right because George says he's right).
Argument from necessity does not make it "not theft."

Either the dictionary definition of a word is the description of what word is, what it represents, and what the subject it represents is

or

We're all just using personally assigned/arbitrary meanings.

[Patriqvinia]

You said it never happened.
In any case, it's a "bill me later" situation. Insurance could even cover it.

Yes, bill me later

So, after everything I owned is destroyed, I'm supposed to pay you now? And if I say no, what are you going to do? Not only can they probably not pay you, the service you provided has already been rendered with no real contract signed. Sorry, once again, that is not how business works.

Get insurance or pay when you can. That's hardly unreasonable.

[Salvarity]

"It's theft because I say it's theft"

No, that would be a fallacy. It's theft because something is taken from you without your consent.

And on topic. By living in this country you consent to taxes.

[Wikkiwallana]

I told you why it is in error to use the "legal right" definition (George is right because George says he's right).
Argument from necessity does not make it "not theft."

Either the dictionary definition of a word is the description of what word is, what it represents, and what the subject it represents is

or

We're all just using personally assigned/arbitrary meanings.

That's it, you're getting governed by post-modernists from now on, Mr. Smartypants.

[Jinos]

OP didn't even properly define theft, so what grounds makes his argument legitimate since its inception is flawed?

In anycase, even if OP redefined theft for proper usage, taxes don't constitute 'stealing' (whether taxation is 'forced' or not), they are a membership fee, levied upon the citizens within this country for the right to live here.

Don't like it? Then get out, it's our club and if you don't want to pay the due and insist on breaking the club rules then leave.

And don't bother trying to argue "Well I don't use that stuff the gubment provides"!

[New Genoa]

"It's theft because I say it's theft"

No, that would be a fallacy. It's theft because something is taken from you without your consent.

You missed the point. Your definition of theft differs from mine. What makes yours any better?

[Patriqvinia]

I told you why it is in error to use the "legal right" definition (George is right because George says he's right).
Argument from necessity does not make it "not theft."

Either the dictionary definition of a word is the description of what word is, what it represents, and what the subject it represents is

or

We're all just using personally assigned/arbitrary meanings.

We're using the right definition, but we're using logic to omit variables of the definition that don't fit into the context.

[Hydesland]

Thank you for neither defining nor sourcing any of that. It's a real time saver.

You need a definition of money?

1. A medium of exchange.
2. A unit of account.
3. A store of value.

Fiat currency fails the 3rd function.

No, that's utter bullshit. Fiat currency only fails in so far as the central bank allows it to. Furthermore, any commodity ever can easily fail at 3 under certain (non exceptional) circumstances, except when it does happen there is fuck all you can do.

[Mad Monarch]

Yes, bill me later

So, after everything I owned is destroyed, I'm supposed to pay you now? And if I say no, what are you going to do? Not only can they probably not pay you, the service you provided has already been rendered with no real contract signed. Sorry, once again, that is not how business works.

Get insurance or pay when you can. That's hardly unreasonable.

lol

People WON'T pay. They might donate $5 but they sure as hell won't pay you. Once again, that is not how business works. You either force them to pay before rendering the service or make them sign a contract to pay you by a certain time. On this situation, your choices are simple: Pay your fire bill, or we will personally make sure your house burns to the ground with everything in it.

Sounds like fun, doesn't it?

[Jinos]

"It's theft because I say it's theft"

No, that would be a fallacy. It's theft because something is taken from you without your consent.

Your consent is the willful continuation of living within the borders of said country as its citizen.

[United Dependencies]

"It's theft because I say it's theft"

No, that would be a fallacy. It's theft because something is taken from you without your consent.

theft: the act or instance of stealing
-Webster's II dictionary(third edition)

Steal: To take property without permission or right
-same as above

to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force
-dictionary.com

1.Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it
-google definition

1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
-merriam webster online

Guess what, the government has the legal right to tax. It's not theft.

[Hydesland]

Better then drastic backnforthing between inflation and deflation, at least the money supply has a base stability.

No, it isn't.

And now you are quite literally disagreeing with every (non insane) economist that has ever existed and pretty much the entirety of modern monetary economic theory.

[Sibirsky]

You need a definition of money?

1. A medium of exchange.
2. A unit of account.
3. A store of value.

Fiat currency fails the 3rd function.

Money is paper. Paper may have close to zero value. But it has some value.

No. Money is the 3 things I stated.

Money could be metal, like coins. Or it could be anything. It could be electronic. But it must meet the criteria above. Fiat money fails the 3rd function?

[Sibirsky]

I showed that the 1990 formula shows 6%+ inflation. I addressed how they lower the rate as well.

What makes the 1990 Formula the true formula and the current formula the false one?

I never said the 1990s formula is the true formula, just that it is closer to reality.

Less hedonics, substitution and geometric weighting. All these are verifiable. While the BLS does not release the exact formula, they admit that they engage is such practices.

[Salvarity]

Money is paper. Paper may have close to zero value. But it has some value.

No. Money is the 3 things I stated.

Money could be metal, like coins. Or it could be anything. It could be electronic. But it must meet the criteria above. Fiat money fails the 3rd function?

So are you suggesting that we go back to using Gold and Silver as currencies?

[Death Metal]

No, that would be a fallacy. It's theft because something is taken from you without your consent.

theft: the act or instance of stealing
-Webster's II dictionary(third edition)

Steal: To take property without permission or right
-same as above

to take (the property of another or others) without permission or right, especially secretly or by force
-dictionary.com

1.Take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it
-google definition

1: to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as a habitual or regular practice
-merriam webster online

Guess what, the government has the legal right to tax. It's not theft.

You forget that they say they don't believe the government has the right, on the grounds that saying so will justify their argument.

Which, ironically, is itself George is right because George says he is right.

[Sibirsky]

You need a definition of money?

1. A medium of exchange.
2. A unit of account.
3. A store of value.

Fiat currency fails the 3rd function.

Funny, the net value of the world economy seems to be doing just fine despite every major nation using a fiat currency. Doesn't seem to have failed at all.

Do you not understand what "store of value" means? Your money decreases in value. That's not storing it.

[Wikkiwallana]

What makes the 1990 Formula the true formula and the current formula the false one?

I never said the 1990s formula is the true formula, just that it is closer to reality.

Less hedonics, substitution and geometric weighting. All these are verifiable. While the BLS does not release the exact formula, they admit that they engage is such practices.

And you have yet to explain what makes said practices bad, other than they produce results you personally disagree with.

[Sibirsky]

Do you?

Yes, a lower rate of inflation does 2 things. First, COLA is lower, saving the government money. 2nd, it makes GDP growth look better, so consumers and investors are more confident. Spending more, and investing more.

Damn the retirees living on fixed incomes.

And that is a bad thing how?

It steals from retirees, the poor, people on fixed incomes, veterans, etc.

I said it right there, in the 2nd sentence. Why do you hate the poor?

[Jinos]

Money is paper. Paper may have close to zero value. But it has some value.

No. Money is the 3 things I stated.

Money could be metal, like coins. Or it could be anything. It could be electronic. But it must meet the criteria above. Fiat money fails the 3rd function?

Number 3 isn't even a real definition, because its subject to change and only as 'valuable' as we consider it. Even Gold, the oft toted "staple" that should back our currency, would be worthless, in say, a post-apocalyptic situation where bread is worth more. (As an example.)

Clearly, paper money is valuable, because there is more "wealth" in the US (noted in fiat currency) than could be measured in gold.

Do you not understand what "store of value" means? Your money decreases in value. That's not storing it.

But the wealth generated offsets that decrease in value.

[Salvarity]

Funny, the net value of the world economy seems to be doing just fine despite every major nation using a fiat currency. Doesn't seem to have failed at all.

Do you not understand what "store of value" means? Your money decreases in value. That's not storing it.

I ask you this. What does not decrease or increase in value over time.
Supply and Demand will always be in effect.