Income Taxes: Are They Theft?

[Patriqvinia]

Sure. We already have private hospitals. And to a limited extent roads, fire stations, police and utilities.

Ya, several states have "pay for your fire department" taxes. Here is what happens if you don't pay and your house catches fire:

They show up, don't enter the property, don't let you near the property, and watch it burn while keeping your neighbors safe (if they payed). This actually isn't fear mongering, it actually does happen in states that have this fun little idea. How do you expect private business would be any better in that regard?

Because there would be several competing firms. Also, how would a private firm have the right to stop homeowners or volunteer firefighters from attempting to put out a fire?

[Salvarity]

No, because the minority is granted rights that cannot be denied by the majority.

Yeah, until the majority or whatever despot they put into power, decides to rescind those rights.

That is called Tyranny by Majority. Technically is illegal when the state has a decent and holding constitution.

[Salvarity]

Ya, several states have "pay for your fire department" taxes. Here is what happens if you don't pay and your house catches fire:

They show up, don't enter the property, don't let you near the property, and watch it burn while keeping your neighbors safe (if they payed). This actually isn't fear mongering, it actually does happen in states that have this fun little idea. How do you expect private business would be any better in that regard?

Because there would be several competing firms. Also, how would a private firm have the right to stop homeowners or volunteer firefighters from attempting to put out a fire?

Block you from entering and if you even touch them. Sue you for assault

[Patriqvinia]

Yeah, until the majority or whatever despot they put into power, decides to rescind those rights.

Which system are you arguing against? Because that sort of thing would be illegal in the US.

Patriot Act mean anything to you? Banning sodomy?

[Mad Monarch]

Sure. We already have private hospitals. And to a limited extent roads, fire stations, police and utilities.

I'll give you private hospitals and private roads but

-Fire Fighter. Your in one of your most economic lows when your house just got set on fire. Having to Pay for a fire fighter is going to be economically draining on the victim

-Police. Well your a Libertarian. In a perfect Libertarian world how long until Private Law Enforcement become Private Offense.

-Utilities. I'll give you this also.

Don't give him privatized hospitals, actually. not until he finds a viable answer to the blaring hole in his logic should all hospitals become privatized. Don't even give him roads until he plugs the obvious hole in that that I pointed out should roads become fully privatized.

[Patriqvinia]

Because there would be several competing firms. Also, how would a private firm have the right to stop homeowners or volunteer firefighters from attempting to put out a fire?

Block you from entering and if you even touch them. Sue you for assault

Wrong answer. The answer is they don't have a right to block you or anyone else from putting out the fire.

[New Conglomerate]

Sure. We already have private hospitals. And to a limited extent roads, fire stations, police and utilities.

I'll give you private hospitals and private roads but

-Fire Fighter. Your in one of your most economic lows when your house just got set on fire. Having to Pay for a fire fighter is going to be economically draining on the victim

-Police. Well your a Libertarian. In a perfect Libertarian world how long until Private Law Enforcement become Private Offense.

-Utilities. I'll give you this also.

That's not how it works for privatized police and fire departments. Local areas that are too small to maintain a professional police force or firefighters can contract private groups to supplement volunteer services.

Privatizing utilities is a bad idea, though. Enron. 'Nuff said.

[Wikkiwallana]

So you quote a graph, and when even it doesn't support your claims, you claim it is dragged down, without saying who dragged it down or how? I'm so very convince.

It shows the pre 1990 revision rate. And the new suggested rate, which most of the time would show slightly lower inflation than current.
Who? The data is published by the BLS. Obviously it would be them, who is manipulating the data.

How? I addressed it. Hedonics, substitution, geometric weighting.

That rate is still only half of what you claimed. Thank you for finally at least saying where the graph came from. And what are those methods and how are they falsification?

[Salvarity]

I'll give you private hospitals and private roads but

-Fire Fighter. Your in one of your most economic lows when your house just got set on fire. Having to Pay for a fire fighter is going to be economically draining on the victim

-Police. Well your a Libertarian. In a perfect Libertarian world how long until Private Law Enforcement become Private Offense.

-Utilities. I'll give you this also.

Don't give him privatized hospitals, actually. not until he finds a viable answer to the blaring hole in his logic should all hospitals become privatized. Don't even give him roads until he plugs the obvious hole in that that I pointed out should roads become fully privatized.

Yeah i don't know enough how those would work to provide a viable response.

[New Conglomerate]

Which system are you arguing against? Because that sort of thing would be illegal in the US.

Patriot Act mean anything to you? Banning sodomy?

The first one does not deny you any rights. The second is illegal under the ruling Lawrence v Texas which ruled that neither states or the federal government cannot criminalize consensual sexual behaviors.

[Wikkiwallana]

Which system are you arguing against? Because that sort of thing would be illegal in the US.

Patriot Act mean anything to you? Banning sodomy?

You know the libertarian darling Ron Paul wants to let people ban sodomy, while it's the scary "socialists" that want to ban banning it.

[Mad Monarch]

Ya, several states have "pay for your fire department" taxes. Here is what happens if you don't pay and your house catches fire:

They show up, don't enter the property, don't let you near the property, and watch it burn while keeping your neighbors safe (if they payed). This actually isn't fear mongering, it actually does happen in states that have this fun little idea. How do you expect private business would be any better in that regard?

Because there would be several competing firms. Also, how would a private firm have the right to stop homeowners or volunteer firefighters from attempting to put out a fire?

So you expect a private company to waste money protecting people who don't pay? lol, that's not how business works. You need to charge people to make money in a business and people won't pay for something given to them for free.

[Death Metal]

And unlike Ron Paul's bullshit, Obama's pledge is legally binding.

No, it isn't.

A written statement, with his signature, on a legal document is not legally binding?

[Salvarity]

Block you from entering and if you even touch them. Sue you for assault

Wrong answer. The answer is they don't have a right to block you or anyone else from putting out the fire.

They shouldn't be allowed to but if they are contracted by the State. So they probably would have the ability to.

[Salvarity]

No, it isn't.

A written statement, with his signature, on a legal document is not legally binding?

Not in the Libertarian World.

[Patriqvinia]

Because there would be several competing firms. Also, how would a private firm have the right to stop homeowners or volunteer firefighters from attempting to put out a fire?

So you expect a private company to waste money protecting people who don't pay? lol, that's not how business works. You need to charge people to make money in a business and people won't pay for something given to them for free.

Actually private companies do that all the time. It's called promotion.
But I was addressing the "They would bar other people from putting the fire out" post.

[Mad Monarch]

Block you from entering and if you even touch them. Sue you for assault

Wrong answer. The answer is they don't have a right to block you or anyone else from putting out the fire.

Yeah, they kinda do. They have the authority to control the fire and protect civilians. Unless you're one of the firefighters and it is your house burning down, they can block you from entering it "for your own safety".

[Salvarity]

So you expect a private company to waste money protecting people who don't pay? lol, that's not how business works. You need to charge people to make money in a business and people won't pay for something given to them for free.

Actually private companies do that all the time. It's called promotion.
But I was addressing the "They would bar other people from putting the fire out" post.

Promotions are only done once in a while. Meaning not all the time. So your going for. January we protect everyone. February and until December we protect those who pay.

[New Conglomerate]

A written statement, with his signature, on a legal document is not legally binding?

Not in the Libertarian World.

It must be sad to live in a reality where everything looks like a Gordian Knot that will unravel any minute.

[Mad Monarch]

So you expect a private company to waste money protecting people who don't pay? lol, that's not how business works. You need to charge people to make money in a business and people won't pay for something given to them for free.

Actually private companies do that all the time. It's called promotion.
But I was addressing the "They would bar other people from putting the fire out" post.

Lol! They would go so far into the red if they gave their services away for free while asking for payment. A "promotion" is a once in a while giveaway. In this case, it would be a scenario happening, at best, every other time.

[Patriqvinia]

Patriot Act mean anything to you? Banning sodomy?

The first one does not deny you any rights. The second is illegal under the ruling Lawrence v Texas which ruled that neither states or the federal government cannot criminalize consensual sexual behaviors.

The Patriot Act does not deny rights? Really?
What happened before Lawrence V. Texas?

[United Dependencies]

I don't play the Social Contract game.
Displaying disagreement is worthless. Acting on disagreement (being able to say no) is the only ethical recourse, but it is not an option without punishment.

I have to admit that the first part of my post is a little bit on the social contract side, but if you read the rest I think you'll note that it really relate to that argument.

Welcome to being a minority in a republic. What do you want me to tell you?

You know what, you're right. My argument is one that stems from a social contract argument. I don't play the social contract game either, so allow me to revise my argument to this one:

Taxes are not theft:
1.By virtue of their definitions in the english language
2.Because of their necessity in any well ordered society.

[Patriqvinia]

Actually private companies do that all the time. It's called promotion.
But I was addressing the "They would bar other people from putting the fire out" post.

Lol! They would go so far into the red if they gave their services away for free while asking for payment. A "promotion" is a once in a while giveaway. In this case, it would be a scenario happening, at best, every other time.

You said it never happened.
In any case, it's a "bill me later" situation. Insurance could even cover it.

[New Conglomerate]

The first one does not deny you any rights. The second is illegal under the ruling Lawrence v Texas which ruled that neither states or the federal government cannot criminalize consensual sexual behaviors.

The Patriot Act does not deny rights? Really?
What happened before Lawrence V. Texas?

Yeah. The last one that was remotely close to it (warrentless tracking) was recently struck down by SCOTUS.

And pre-Lawrence, you could be arrested for being a homosexual. However, the system works in that you can't be arrested for being a homosexual anymore.

[Patriqvinia]

I have to admit that the first part of my post is a little bit on the social contract side, but if you read the rest I think you'll note that it really relate to that argument.

Welcome to being a minority in a republic. What do you want me to tell you?

You know what, you're right. My argument is one that stems from a social contract argument. I don't play the social contract game either, so allow me to revise my argument to this one:

Taxes are not theft:
1.By virtue of their definitions in the english language
2.Because of their necessity in any well ordered society.

I told you why it is in error to use the "legal right" definition (George is right because George says he's right).
Argument from necessity does not make it "not theft."