Income Taxes: Are They Theft?

[Wikkiwallana]

Source?

Go shopping?

These are the numbers as they would be using the 1990 formula (still dragged down).

So you quote a graph, and when even it doesn't support your claims, you claim it is dragged down, without saying who dragged it down or how? I'm so very convince.

[New Genoa]

Actually there is quite a difference.

Republics are much slightly, sometimes, with God-Allah-Vishnu AND Shiva's grace better at protecting minority rights and allowing people such as yourself to enact change in the face of majority opposition.

Fixed

Yes. Only slightly. It would be almost just as easy to have a Civil Rights movement in a fascist country than a free democratic republic.

[Sibirsky]

Short term swings, are better than perpetual inflation.

More of a matter of opinion.

Not really. Considering how growth, and poverty reduction were much faster during those feared swings.

[United Dependencies]

I don't play the Social Contract game.
Displaying disagreement is worthless. Acting on disagreement (being able to say no) is the only ethical recourse, but it is not an option without punishment.

I have to admit that the first part of my post is a little bit on the social contract side, but if you read the rest I think you'll note that it really relate to that argument.

Welcome to being a minority in a republic. What do you want me to tell you?

[NERVUN]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd Coffee break gang!

Taxes may or may not be theft, but this thread is hot. Let's take a break and enjoy a cuppa before I have to start handing out warnings...

See you guys in 15.

Edit: Alrighty gang, hope you had a nice break. PLEASE keep the heat and the snark in check. Thread unlocked.

[Sibirsky]

Because it allows money to perform all of the 3 basic functions it must perform. Something that us removed in fiat money. Fiat money only does 2 of the 3 jobs.

Thank you for neither defining nor sourcing any of that. It's a real time saver.

You need a definition of money?

1. A medium of exchange.
2. A unit of account.
3. A store of value.

Fiat currency fails the 3rd function.

[Salvarity]

Fixed

Yes. Only slightly. It would be almost just as easy to have a Civil Rights movement in a fascist country than a free democratic republic.

Well with a banning of Freedom of Assembly that won't be very easy.

Also it may be easy to organize but what will it achieve.

In a Democratic government it might become widespread and people might actually support it. In a Fascist Governments there is a high chance that it would end in mass murder of Protesters.

[Sibirsky]

This thread is one of the longest Vote Mitt Romney campaigns I've ever seen on NSG.

How do you figure?

[Sibirsky]

What the fuck are you smoking? Evidence is on my side.

You follow the Austrian School, correct?

Relevance?

[Salvarity]

Thank you for neither defining nor sourcing any of that. It's a real time saver.

You need a definition of money?

1. A medium of exchange.
2. A unit of account.
3. A store of value.

Fiat currency fails the 3rd function.

Money is paper. Paper may have close to zero value. But it has some value.

[Sibirsky]

You obviously do not do any of your own shopping. 10% or so, is the likely real world figure.

Anecdotes are not data. Nor is a local increase in prices the same as systematic inflation of the money supply.

I showed that the 1990 formula shows 6%+ inflation. I addressed how they lower the rate as well.

[Salvarity]

Anecdotes are not data. Nor is a local increase in prices the same as systematic inflation of the money supply.

I showed that the 1990 formula shows 6%+ inflation. I addressed how they lower the rate as well.

What makes the 1990 Formula the true formula and the current formula the false one?

[Wikkiwallana]

Thank you for neither defining nor sourcing any of that. It's a real time saver.

You need a definition of money?

1. A medium of exchange.
2. A unit of account.
3. A store of value.

Fiat currency fails the 3rd function.

Funny, the net value of the world economy seems to be doing just fine despite every major nation using a fiat currency. Doesn't seem to have failed at all.

[Sibirsky]

Go shopping?

These are the numbers as they would be using the 1990 formula (still dragged down).

You do realize that there is a reason that they changed that formula, right?

Do you?

Yes, a lower rate of inflation does 2 things. First, COLA is lower, saving the government money. 2nd, it makes GDP growth look better, so consumers and investors are more confident. Spending more, and investing more.

Damn the retirees living on fixed incomes.

[Wikkiwallana]

You follow the Austrian School, correct?

Relevance?

The Austrian School explicitly rejects evidence. There is literally no way it could be on your side.

[Sibirsky]

You seem to believe Ron Paul.

And unlike Ron Paul's bullshit, Obama's pledge is legally binding.

No, it isn't.

[Salvarity]

You do realize that there is a reason that they changed that formula, right?

Do you?

Yes, a lower rate of inflation does 2 things. First, COLA is lower, saving the government money. 2nd, it makes GDP growth look better, so consumers and investors are more confident. Spending more, and investing more.

Damn the retirees living on fixed incomes.

And that is a bad thing how?

[Sibirsky]

That does not answer the question. And all those could be provided privately.

Would any of those privately be effective?

Sure. We already have private hospitals. And to a limited extent roads, fire stations, police and utilities.

[Wikkiwallana]

Anecdotes are not data. Nor is a local increase in prices the same as systematic inflation of the money supply.

I showed that the 1990 formula shows 6%+ inflation. I addressed how they lower the rate as well.

I posted that before I saw your chart because I accidentally skipped a few posts using the "unread posts" feature. I still have yet to see anything resembling an addressal of rate lowering methods.

[New Conglomerate]

You do realize that there is a reason that they changed that formula, right?

Do you?

Yes, a lower rate of inflation does 2 things. First, COLA is lower, saving the government money. 2nd, it makes GDP growth look better, so consumers and investors are more confident. Spending more, and investing more.

Damn the retirees living on fixed incomes.

COLA only includes variables that are definately inflation. Many other factors could cause rises in fuel prices, rises in cost of living, etc.

That's why they changed it. The old formula created excessive panic in the financial sector.

[Sibirsky]

Go shopping?

These are the numbers as they would be using the 1990 formula (still dragged down).

So you quote a graph, and when even it doesn't support your claims, you claim it is dragged down, without saying who dragged it down or how? I'm so very convince.

It shows the pre 1990 revision rate. And the new suggested rate, which most of the time would show slightly lower inflation than current.
Who? The data is published by the BLS. Obviously it would be them, who is manipulating the data.

How? I addressed it. Hedonics, substitution, geometric weighting.

[Mad Monarch]

Would any of those privately be effective?

Sure. We already have private hospitals. And to a limited extent roads, fire stations, police and utilities.

Ya, several states have "pay for your fire department" taxes. Here is what happens if you don't pay and your house catches fire:

They show up, don't enter the property, don't let you near the property, and watch it burn while keeping your neighbors safe (if they payed). This actually isn't fear mongering, it actually does happen in states that have this fun little idea. How do you expect private business would be any better in that regard?

[Patriqvinia]

Because the power hungry can compete in popularity contests?

No, because the minority is granted rights that cannot be denied by the majority.

Yeah, until the majority or whatever despot they put into power, decides to rescind those rights.

[Salvarity]

Would any of those privately be effective?

Sure. We already have private hospitals. And to a limited extent roads, fire stations, police and utilities.

I'll give you private hospitals and private roads but

-Fire Fighter. Your in one of your most economic lows when your house just got set on fire. Having to Pay for a fire fighter is going to be economically draining on the victim

-Police. Well your a Libertarian. In a perfect Libertarian world how long until Private Law Enforcement become Private Offense.

-Utilities. I'll give you this also.

[New Conglomerate]

No, because the minority is granted rights that cannot be denied by the majority.

Yeah, until the majority or whatever despot they put into power, decides to rescind those rights.

Which system are you arguing against? Because that sort of thing would be illegal in the US.