Income Taxes: Are They Theft?

[Ravineworld]

Taxes aren't illegal (quite obviously) but they certainly are immoral. Not only does it result in confiscation of the fruits of a person's labour (so yes, they are theft) but they are then used to coerce sovereign individuals both in the home country and often around the world to do things against their will.

So not only is your property taken from you by force, the government also then uses it to maintain an unjustifiable monopoly on force which should not be tolerated by any liberty-loving individual.

I personally agree with this. I think that there should be government, but it should only protect those who pay for it's protection, and prevent environmental destruction. Other than that it should compete with private defense companies for enforcement of natural law.

[Alyakia]

Taking government services without paying for them is theft. Stop trying to steal from the government.

Edit: scratch this, see my new post:
viewtopic.php?p=8489342#p8489342

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

if you can prove without a doubt you've never used any government service, even only directly, i'll carve "market heil" into un-PG-13 areas

[Sibirsky]

Theft by Definition: The act of stealing property.
So, income taxes, are when the government forces you to give up your property. How is that not stealing property?
I believe that taxes are an act of theft. I believe that since theft is illegal, then taxes are illegal.
So, NSG, what do you think about income taxes? Illegal, legal, good, bad?

Haven't you been paying attention? They're SLAVERY now (at least according to some people).

Partial slavery. Suppose my workday is 8 hours and my tax rate is 25%. Everyday that I work, I work 2 hours for free, for the benefit of the government.

[Revolutopia]

Taking government services without paying for them is theft. Stop trying to steal from the government.

Edit: scratch this, see my new post:
viewtopic.php?p=8489342#p8489342

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

Leaving the Country, if State Right Libertarians can use that as a escape clause when discussing State oppression it is also valid here.

[Wikkiwallana]

Taking government services without paying for them is theft. Stop trying to steal from the government.

Edit: scratch this, see my new post:
viewtopic.php?p=8489342#p8489342

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

That edit was there for a reason, you know.

[Chinese Regions]

Taking government services without paying for them is theft. Stop trying to steal from the government.

Edit: scratch this, see my new post:
viewtopic.php?p=8489342#p8489342

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

Hmm should Taxes be more like subscriptions?

[Alyakia]

Taxes aren't illegal (quite obviously) but they certainly are immoral. Not only does it result in confiscation of the fruits of a person's labour (so yes, they are theft) but they are then used to coerce sovereign individuals both in the home country and often around the world to do things against their will.

So not only is your property taken from you by force, the government also then uses it to maintain an unjustifiable monopoly on force which should not be tolerated by any liberty-loving individual.

I personally agree with this. I think that there should be government, but it should only protect those who pay for it's protection, and prevent environmental destruction. Other than that it should compete with private defense companies for enforcement of natural law.

police insurance!

[Chinese Regions]

Argument by assertion is theft, I want my time back.

[Chinese Regions]

edit: double post

[Zeppy]

Elaborate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft!

[Sibirsky]

Taxes are an investment. If you give the government money and they give you education and roads you can use and other stuff back, it's an investment. If they tax you just to take money, then it's theft.

Not that hard of a concept.

Breaking news. None of the shit you listen is paid for by income taxes.

[Sibirsky]

No. People don't complain that they have to pay to live in a house. Why can't a government put charges on living in their country? If you don't want to pay taxes for some reason, you can leave.

And go where?

[Alexlantis]

Taxes are an investment. If you give the government money and they give you education and roads you can use and other stuff back, it's an investment. If they tax you just to take money, then it's theft.

Not that hard of a concept.

Breaking news. None of the shit you listen is paid for by income taxes. [citation needed]

So, then, what do income taxes pay for, then?

[Hassett]

Taxes are forced purchases.

[Wikkiwallana]

No. People don't complain that they have to pay to live in a house. Why can't a government put charges on living in their country? If you don't want to pay taxes for some reason, you can leave.

And go where?

Hey, libertarians are the people who are always using "vote with your feet" as an argument. No fair pointing out the obvious flaws when you're the ones it's being used on.

[Sibirsky]

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

if you can prove without a doubt you've never used any government service, even only directly, i'll carve "market heil" into un-PG-13 areas

I can. The services I have used are all funded by other taxes and user fees. The only service I would have to use income taxes for, is the military. Considering how it's not been used in defense since I've been here, nothing I have used was paid for by income taxes. Which is a specific tax the OP is talking about.

[Ravineworld]

Taxes are an investment. If you give the government money and they give you education and roads you can use and other stuff back, it's an investment. If they tax you just to take money, then it's theft.

Not that hard of a concept.

But taxes are compulsory. So therefore the government is investing your money without your permission. That is still stealing.

[Alyakia]

No. People don't complain that they have to pay to live in a house. Why can't a government put charges on living in their country? If you don't want to pay taxes for some reason, you can leave.

And go where?

Some people have revolutions.

Some people actively resist the government.

Some people just post "WELL EVERYWHERE HAS A STATE RITE" and go back to filling their taxers.

[Zeppy]

So, then, what do income taxes pay for, then?

Big motherfucking guns.

[Sibirsky]

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

Leaving the Country, if State Right Libertarians can use that as a escape clause when discussing State oppression it is also valid here.

But to go where? There isn't a valid option. Also, in the case of the US, you still have to pay taxes. Or pay an exit-tax and renounce citizenship.

[Revolutopia]

No. People don't complain that they have to pay to live in a house. Why can't a government put charges on living in their country? If you don't want to pay taxes for some reason, you can leave.

And go where?

I hear deserted islands are nice this time of year.

[Sibirsky]

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

Hmm should Taxes be more like subscriptions?

Can you elaborate?

[Revolutopia]

Leaving the Country, if State Right Libertarians can use that as a escape clause when discussing State oppression it is also valid here.

But to go where? There isn't a valid option. Also, in the case of the US, you still have to pay taxes. Or pay an exit-tax and renounce citizenship.

Not my problem, it is for you to figure out so go Vote with Your Feet.

[Genivaria]

Taking government services without paying for them is theft. Stop trying to steal from the government.

Edit: scratch this, see my new post:
viewtopic.php?p=8489342#p8489342

And if he doesn't use them? What choice does he have in not paying taxes?

How do you not use public services?

[Ovisterra]

I personally agree with this. I think that there should be government, but it should only protect those who pay for it's protection

It does. It protects (or is supposed to protect) everyone, and everyone pays it.