Income Taxes: Are They Theft?

[Sibirsky]

Yes. I won all those awards by being wrong.

Woooow, you won some internet awards?

You going to put those on your resume?

That's more than Death Metal will ever achieve with that constant ineptitude.

[Death Metal]

Your ambition to give up freedom is noteworthy.

Your hypocritical championing someone who voted for "giving up freedom" while claiming he would never do so, while condemning someone who was forced to accept a bill by a veto-proof majority that said so, and only signed it so he could also sign a pledge not to use it, is also noteworthy.

[Sibirsky]

Yes. I won all those awards by being wrong.

I think "despite" is more accurate.

We all know how you feel. Just because you don't read my sources (which I have posted in direct response to you, at times) does not mean I am "just saying stuff."

[Sibirsky]

Yes. I won all those awards by being wrong.

That is exactly what I am saying.

And what I am saying, is that you have not said one thing correctly since you joined the forum. Zero, zilch, nada.

[Sibirsky]

Who was war declared on?

All persons, nations, and organizations the Administrative Branch believes had a role in 9/11, as written in the bill.

[The Black Forrest]

Considering the age of taxation; why get your blood pressure up?

They are not going away anytime soon......

[Patriqvinia]

You benefit from the construction of the pool, yes?
Presupposition of benefit does not justify collection of payment.

But its still not an apt comparison, because there is the option to use the pool (which is private, not public, I'll also add). The road will be used regardless of "choice" You will walk on it and drive on it, others will drive on it to facilitate communication to you.

It's not about "Oh you would benefit from a pool, I'll put one there you have to pay me". It's about, we live in a society where we expect the community provides for the individual, and the individual must in turn provide for the community.

We live in society that fundamentally EMBRACES that concept.

If you don't want to embrace that concept, you reject the society.

So if you reject that society you must leave, for staying signifies accepting that society (and its fundamental concepts). You can say "I reject this taxation bullshit, it's theft" but your actions signify "I accept your support, here are my taxes". And actions always speak louder than words.

Yeah no, it's "necessity of use" doesn't justify a collection of payment for an unrequested activity any more than presupposed benefit, no matter how much current society may accept that notion. It's the same as caging you and throwing food into the cage and subtracting the cost of the food (the price charged independent of cost) from your bank account; all for being born and achieving the age of 18.

[Sibirsky]

We're not talking about the healthcare bill.

Then you failed to properly elaborate.

Bill of Rights has no effect on main body Article 1 Section 9 Clause 2.

And you don't even know the Bill of Rights.

You are truly special.

[Great Malema]

Depends what the government does is a waste or not.

This, basically.

[Sibirsky]

Enough. We have a debt based monetary system. Which means out money is declining in value.

Just because our currency declines in value doesn't mean we aren't richer.

Savers are. That's the whole fucking point, if you actually read what I wrote. At no point in time have I claimed that production decreased. I did however claim that our money is not a good store of value.

It declines in value.

Uhh, hate to break it to you, but so does gold. In fact, so does everything, at some point or another. (Eventually, after reaching its trade peak, it will start to decline in value).

Gold is far more stable in value than the paper currencies.

[Death Metal]

That is exactly what I am saying.

And what I am saying, is that you have not said one thing correctly since you joined the forum. Zero, zilch, nada.

Seeing as all your arguments, including this one, have been largely "you are wrong and you suck", and have refused several times to post sources when asked, just more "you are wrong and you suck", I'm just going to pity you and walk away here.

[Patriqvinia]

And what I am saying, is that you have not said one thing correctly since you joined the forum. Zero, zilch, nada.

Seeing as all your arguments, including this one, have been largely "you are wrong and you suck", and have refused several times to post sources when asked, just more "you are wrong and you suck", I'm just going to pity you and walk away here.

Funny... The first time you responded to one of my posts it was "you are wrong and you suck" almost word for word.

[Sibirsky]

And what I am saying, is that you have not said one thing correctly since you joined the forum. Zero, zilch, nada.

Seeing as all your arguments, including this one, have been largely "you are wrong and you suck", and have refused several times to post sources when asked, just more "you are wrong and you suck", I'm just going to pity you and walk away here.

You asked for sources? On what? I have posted plenty of sources in my almost 3 years here. You can use the search function and knock yourself out.

[Forsher]

Just because our currency declines in value doesn't mean we aren't richer.

Savers are. That's the whole fucking point, if you actually read what I wrote. At no point in time have I claimed that production decreased. I did however claim that our money is not a good store of value.

Uhh, hate to break it to you, but so does gold. In fact, so does everything, at some point or another. (Eventually, after reaching its trade peak, it will start to decline in value).

Gold is far more stable in value than the paper currencies.

You use paper? Savages...

[Jinos]

But its still not an apt comparison, because there is the option to use the pool (which is private, not public, I'll also add). The road will be used regardless of "choice" You will walk on it and drive on it, others will drive on it to facilitate communication to you.

It's not about "Oh you would benefit from a pool, I'll put one there you have to pay me". It's about, we live in a society where we expect the community provides for the individual, and the individual must in turn provide for the community.

We live in society that fundamentally EMBRACES that concept.

If you don't want to embrace that concept, you reject the society.

So if you reject that society you must leave, for staying signifies accepting that society (and its fundamental concepts). You can say "I reject this taxation bullshit, it's theft" but your actions signify "I accept your support, here are my taxes". And actions always speak louder than words.

Yeah no, it's "necessity of use" doesn't justify a collection of payment for an unrequested activity any more than presupposed benefit, no matter how much current society may accept that notion. It's the same as caging you and throwing food into the cage and subtracting the cost of the food (the price charged independent of cost) from your bank account; all for being born and achieving the age of 18.

No, your example is again inaccurate because the cage is open and you can LEAVE at any time you want.

You DON'T have to pay a tax, it is your CHOICE to do so.

In order to be apart of this society, you must accept that you have to give back to it. IF you reject this, then society rejects YOU.

You may be born into this society, and thus, it will assume by default you accept this, but should you not, it is therefor your CHOICE to leave. If you do not wish to pay a tax, it falls on you to leave that society. Not for society to change in accordance to revolve around your narrow views.

[Patriqvinia]

Yeah no, it's "necessity of use" doesn't justify a collection of payment for an unrequested activity any more than presupposed benefit, no matter how much current society may accept that notion. It's the same as caging you and throwing food into the cage and subtracting the cost of the food (the price charged independent of cost) from your bank account; all for being born and achieving the age of 18.

No, your example is again inaccurate because the cage is open and you can LEAVE at any time you want.

You DON'T have to pay a tax, it is your CHOICE to do so.

In order to be apart of this society, you must accept that you have to give back to it. IF you reject this, then society rejects YOU.

You may be born into this society, and thus, it will assume by default you accept this, but should you not, it is therefor your CHOICE to leave. If you do not wish to pay a tax, it falls on you to leave that society. Not for society to change in accordance to revolve around your narrow views.

You have the illusion of choice, after all, these "necessities" are provided purely at the exclusion of alternatives. If you don't pay taxes, you can go to jail; you can go to another country (with taxes) giving up much of your belongings and personal connections. You DO NOT have the CHOICE of not paying taxes and remaining where you were born or on land which you purchased. You have yet to justify such an absurd contract as that of the social contract. Your pool pending.

You give back to a society by working.

[Conserative Morality]

It declines in value.

Most commodities decline in value.

[The Black Forrest]

Just because our currency declines in value doesn't mean we aren't richer.

Savers are. That's the whole fucking point, if you actually read what I wrote. At no point in time have I claimed that production decreased. I did however claim that our money is not a good store of value.

Uhh, hate to break it to you, but so does gold. In fact, so does everything, at some point or another. (Eventually, after reaching its trade peak, it will start to decline in value).

Gold is far more stable in value than the paper currencies.

How do you get around the problems of switching to a gold standard?

1) The government doesn't have enough gold to buy back all the dollars.

2) Gold isn't really connected to our standard of living. Say there were massive mines discovered and gold flooded the markets. Would our standard of living increase? In theory the disconnect between the value of money and living standards doesn't necessarily have to cause problems. Drastic changes in purchasing power have the potential to cause chaos on an economy. As mentioned, the massive supply of gold discovered. Countries might find it in their interest to lay thousands of tons of gold on the markets.

3) Doesn't mining consume resources? Resources used in production of useful things would be directed to dig for gold. As more gold is found and purchased, would it not devalue existing money?

4) How do you keep governments from abusing it's citizens with inflation? Lock it away in vaults?

5) What would be the increased costs of hording and vaulting? Think of the electrical conducting aspects. It's found in many things such as refrigerators, TVs, etc. Think of it's ability to withstand corrosion. Now you have Computers, Aerospace, medical, space.

What about the production of glass?

There would have to be one damn good plan to do this.

Simply expecting everybody (ie the lower classes) to "take one for the team" will not work.....

[Onekawa-Nukanor]

No. Taxes are legal, theft is illegal, therfore it is not theft.

The morality is a different story. But I still 'support' income taxes, I just (like most) don't like having to pay them. Such is life.

[Patriqvinia]

No. Taxes are legal, theft is illegal, therfore it is not theft.

The morality is a different story. But I still 'support' income taxes, I just (like most) don't like having to pay them. Such is life.

Theft is not consented to or illegal.

[Grave_n_idle]

Wrong, by definition.

And I could probably find more, but MAYBE you get da' pattern no?[/spoiler]

Yes. The 'pattern' is either you have no idea what you're talking about, or you're deliberately posting nonsense.

*shrugs*

[Socialdemokraterne]

Hmmm. I pay income taxes, which takes away my ability to purchase things a bit. In exchange, I get:

-Environmental protection
-National defense
-Food safety and quality assurance
-Funding to confer grants for education and research
-Infrastructural construction and maintenance

Fair trade as far as I'm concerned. You want a better deal? Move out and go find it. I won't make you stay.

[Forsher]

No. Taxes are legal, theft is illegal, therfore it is not theft.

The morality is a different story. But I still 'support' income taxes, I just (like most) don't like having to pay them. Such is life.

Theft is not consented to or illegal.

I don't consent to paying the restaurant for making my meal, and yet I do because not paying would make it theft.

[The Black Forrest]

No. Taxes are legal, theft is illegal, therfore it is not theft.

The morality is a different story. But I still 'support' income taxes, I just (like most) don't like having to pay them. Such is life.

Theft is not consented to or illegal.

If taxation was a new thing, then the argument of theft comes into play.

People accept it as a part of life. Everybody complains about taxes. As it was said taxes and death are the only certainties in life.

[Sibirsky]

It declines in value.

Most commodities decline in value.

Incorrect.