Obama or Bush?

[Emericanland]

No he just wants the rich to give away their money to the poor and wants everyone to do some community service for their glorious leader. He also wants the American people to pay for failing companies to prop them up and he wants everyone to have the same health coverage because if anyone other then our glorious leader had better coverage then it would be unfair.

You're not interested in fairness or logic at all, are you? You simply want to smear Obama and the Democratic party with absolutely no regard for the truth.

what do you mean? The democrats have repeatedly proven their willingness to tax the rich, usually with the excuse of helping the poor. During his 9/11 remembrance speech one of the main things he said is he wanted people to go out and do community service(I don't know how that goes along with terrorists killing innocent Americans.). We also had to bailout fannie mae and freddie mac as well as GM and Chrysler. this is purely based on logic, but it requires willingness to listen.

[Geniasis]

We beat Britain twice(the reason we exist)

Once with the help of France. We hardly won the War of 1812 though. That was a stalemate at best.

and we saved them from Germany twice.

We didn't really do anything in WW1. We showed up a few months before the end of the war and really just sped up the inevitable.

While we also joined in WWII after the pivotal events occurred, we did provide valuable assistance via the Lend-lease act. That said, the victory of World War II was definitely a group effort and could hardly be said to be "America saves the day".

They had to make the EU to compete.

That is not why the EU exists.

History is the only source needed.

And it does not support your claim.

Why don't you provide info on how we are not better then them(based on facts not opinion)?

I see no need. You are the one making the claim, therefore it is your responsibility to back it up.

[Ralkovia]

No he just wants the rich to give away their money to the poor and wants everyone to do some community service for their glorious leader. He also wants the American people to pay for failing companies to prop them up and he wants everyone to have the same health coverage because if anyone other then our glorious leader had better coverage then it would be unfair.

You're not interested in fairness or logic at all, are you? You simply want to smear Obama and the Democratic party with absolutely no regard for the truth.

Yeah we're definitely not interested in fairness or logic...

[Gauthier]

So you're saying we should be just like Europe even though in our much shorter history then theirs we have surpassed them in every way?

Once again I ask for your source. If you do not comply, I will be forced to disregard your opinion.

We beat Britain twice(the reason we exist)

Actually, the reason you exist is the French, since the British Empire may have been able to win the War of Independence if it was not for French intervention.

and we saved them from Germany twice.

American help in World War One was negligible and belated; and in World War Two, the USSR had much more of a hand in victory than the USA.

They had to make the EU to compete.

Or, say, recover from a world war?

Well, you are trying to explain the specifics of American involvement in world politics to someone who thinks it can all be explained with "America, FUCK YEAH!!"

[Emericanland]

Besides, we all know Obama prefers Muslim countries over Israel. He even bows to muslim leaders.

While a Good Christian Man stood up to the Ebil Mozlem Horde-

Oh wait...

That is a proper greeting for people of EQUAL power. Obama openly showed submission. Their is a slight, but important difference.

[Geniasis]

what do you mean? The democrats have repeatedly proven their willingness to tax the rich, usually with the excuse of helping the poor. During his 9/11 remembrance speech one of the main things he said is he wanted people to go out and do community service(I don't know how that goes along with terrorists killing innocent Americans.). We also had to bailout fannie mae and freddie mac as well as GM and Chrysler. this is purely based on logic, but it requires willingness to listen.

Why is community service bad?

[Buffett and Colbert]

We beat Britain twice(the reason we exist)

Once. Britain was not really trying to invade America in 1812. It was more of a slap on the wrist. That can be considered a draw.

and we saved them from Germany twice.

The UK was never invaded by Germany (excluding the Channel Islands I suppose).

They had to make the EU to compete.

The EU wasn't an effort to compete with the US. It was to improve the lifestyle of the citizens of European country's.

History is the only source needed.

How about you learn some?

Why don't you provide info on how we are not better then them(based on facts not opinion)?

Europe's successful implementaion of socialised health care is one major plus. The job market is quite better there than here. There is FAR more social equality in European governments as well. This is the major thing. You don't see any French provinces excluding atheists from the provincial government of any other areas allowing people to be fired based on their sexual orientation.

Just for starters. And its quite ironic that you talk to ME about facts, child.

[Geniasis]

Yeah we're definitely not interested in fairness or logic...

That is what I said, yes.

[Buffett and Colbert]

[
That is a proper greeting for people of EQUAL power. Obama openly showed submission. Their is a slight, but important difference.

This is simply, fucking undeniably and reliably untrue.

Just like kissing, bowing is a customary greeting in many Asian cultures. It's a sign of respect, not submission.

[Spredronia]

Wow, that's an impossible chObama.

[Ralkovia]

Your taking what he said out of context. He never told you what he believes the aide said however you did. Your point is moot.

Fix'd.

Thanks my B. I'm typing so fast I'm not paying attention to what I'm spelling.

[Rolling squid]

Considering only one is a war criminal, this ain't exactly a hard choice.

You kids throw around that term far too often. Are you seriously trying to compare bush to the likes of Goebbels and Bormann? Have you ever even studied the Nuremberg Trials?

Just because Bush didn't commit atrocities on the same level as the Nazis doesn't exempt him from war criminal status. Ted Bundy and some dude who shot his ex-wife are both murderers.

Um, what?

Just because a crime can be committed on a much greater magnitude doesn't mean that committing the same crime on a smaller magnitude isn't a crime. Bush's acts of torture were a war crime, as were the acts of Nazi Germany.

Its just me but I thought that Nazi Germany's war crime was genocide, torture, wholesale slaughter, slave labor

oh but thats just me. Silly me I forgot that torturing is the same as wholesale slaughter.

They were. And Bush's crime is torture. Both are crimes, and should therefore be punished.

[Buffett and Colbert]

what do you mean? The democrats have repeatedly proven their willingness to tax the rich,

What, the rich shouldn't be taxed?

usually with the excuse of helping the poor.

That's one reason. Taxes do go to programs like the welfare system and Medicaid. But taxes are also appropriated to the military budget as well as various other departments.

During his 9/11 remembrance speech one of the main things he said is he wanted people to go out and do community service(I don't know how that goes along with terrorists killing innocent Americans.)

What have you against giving back to the community that shelters you and protects you?

. We also had to bailout fannie mae and freddie mac as well as GM and Chrysler. this is purely based on logic, but it requires willingness to listen.

Rephrase it so it contains a modicum of coherency, please.

[Emericanland]

We beat Britain twice(the reason we exist)

Once with the help of France. We hardly won the War of 1812 though. That was a stalemate at best.

and we saved them from Germany twice.

We didn't really do anything in WW1. We showed up a few months before the end of the war and really just sped up the inevitable.

While we also joined in WWII after the pivotal events occurred, we did provide valuable assistance via the Lend-lease act. That said, the victory of World War II was definitely a group effort and could hardly be said to be "America saves the day".

They had to make the EU to compete.

That is not why the EU exists.

History is the only source needed.

And it does not support your claim.

Why don't you provide info on how we are not better then them(based on facts not opinion)?

I see no need. You are the one making the claim, therefore it is your responsibility to back it up.

If the war of 1812 was so bad and we didn't win then how come we our here talking about this instead of praising our king.
ok so France being taken over during WW2 would have been stopped by the Russians? The Russians were important, but not the deciding factor. If the US never joined Briton would have fell then Germany would have went after Russia fully.
Then why does the EU exist? to be friends with each other?

[The Babbage Islands]

Let's give Obama at least one term to screw up the country before we try to answer this.

W does have a lot to answer for, but BHO policies have been bad-to-awful in eight months, no telling what eight years (hopefully four!) might bring. Toss-up.

[Classical Liberal]

No he just wants the rich to give away their money to the poor and wants everyone to do some community service for their glorious leader. He also wants the American people to pay for failing companies to prop them up and he wants everyone to have the same health coverage because if anyone other then our glorious leader had better coverage then it would be unfair.

You're not interested in fairness or logic at all, are you? You simply want to smear Obama and the Democratic party with absolutely no regard for the truth.

Yeah we're definitely not interested in fairness or logic...

Epic, and I do say, EPIC win.

[Geniasis]

If the war of 1812 was so bad and we didn't win then how come we our here talking about this instead of praising our king.

Because their aim was not to re-conquer the U.S.. Also, we both decided to cut shit out and build good relations.

ok so France being taken over during WW2 would have been stopped by the Russians? The Russians were important, but not the deciding factor. If the US never joined Briton would have fell then Germany would have went after Russia fully.

Not the case, actually. Germany simply didn't have the resources to fight both fronts.

Then why does the EU exist? to be friends with each other?

For the sake of Europe. Not everything revolves around us, you know.

[The Rich Port]

Arguments that Bush is a war criminal: 1347
Whineings about Obama being an Islamo-Nazi Communist: 942
Sitting back and watching the partisan hacks make fools of themselves: Priceless

I agree, my friend. Oh, it's good to be a Socialist...

[Buffett and Colbert]

If the war of 1812 was so bad and we didn't win then how come we our here talking about this instead of praising our king.

Because domination wasn't the Brits' intention.

ok so France being taken over during WW2 would have been stopped by the Russians? The Russians were important, but not the deciding factor.

If the Russians were on the other side, or even just neutral, the Allies would have been screwed.

If the US never joined Briton would have fell

The US never directly defended Britain.

then Germany would have went after Russia fully.

They did. That didn't turn out too well, did it?

Then why does the EU exist? to be friends with each other?

Essentially, yes. To promote peace and understanding between European nations as well as create as give an economic advantage to the more deprived nations. It's win-win for everyone.

You don't seem to understand the fact that governments exist to better the lives of the people. This may not always be the outcome, but it is their ultimate goal. Even Nazi Germany wanted to better the lives of their people.

[Geniasis]

Epic, and I do say, EPIC win.

Not really. It presents Obama's position as a strawman, reverses into something ridiculous and then accuses him of hypocrisy.

It'd be like if I was for capital punishment, but then someone accused me of being a hypocrite because I don't approve of murdering puppies.

[Emericanland]

What, the rich shouldn't be taxed?
That's one reason. Taxes do go to programs like the welfare system and Medicaid. But taxes are also appropriated to the military budget as well as various other departments.
What have you against giving back to the community that shelters you and protects you?
Rephrase it so it contains a modicum of coherency, please.

So you're saying we should punish people who had succeeded. Did you know they create the majority of Jobs that are required right now.
Those Welfare systems are breaking down and the Liberal solution is to add more to it. It would be like starting to build a pyramid and you see the bottom is about to give so your solution is to put more on top. There is nothing wrong with it, but this is a 9/11 remembrance speech where he should talk about the innocent and hero's who died on that day because we don't have the same religious view as the terrorists and because we support Israel. Could you start basing your arguments on fact instead of pointless babbling trying to make me sound stupid like Liberals do to everyone who threatens their beliefs with fact.

[Geniasis]

So you're saying we should punish people who had succeeded. Did you know they create the majority of Jobs that are required right now.
Those Welfare systems are breaking down and the Liberal solution is to add more to it. It would be like starting to build a pyramid and you see the bottom is about to give so your solution is to put more on top. There is nothing wrong with it, but this is a 9/11 remembrance speech where he should talk about the innocent and hero's who died on that day because we don't have the same religious view as the terrorists and because we support Israel. Could you start basing your arguments on fact instead of pointless babbling trying to make me sound stupid like Liberals do to everyone who threatens their beliefs with fact.

That is not why we were attacked. It has more to do with Saudi Arabia.

[Ralkovia]

Considering only one is a war criminal, this ain't exactly a hard choice.

You kids throw around that term far too often. Are you seriously trying to compare bush to the likes of Goebbels and Bormann? Have you ever even studied the Nuremberg Trials?

Just because Bush didn't commit atrocities on the same level as the Nazis doesn't exempt him from war criminal status. Ted Bundy and some dude who shot his ex-wife are both murderers.

Um, what?

Just because a crime can be committed on a much greater magnitude doesn't mean that committing the same crime on a smaller magnitude isn't a crime. Bush's acts of torture were a war crime, as were the acts of Nazi Germany.

Its just me but I thought that Nazi Germany's war crime was genocide, torture, wholesale slaughter, slave labor

oh but thats just me. Silly me I forgot that torturing is the same as wholesale slaughter.

They were. And Bush's crime is torture. Both are crimes, and should therefore be punished.

When your dead, no one can here you bitch about how bad torture is.

There is a difference, in perspective its like trying someone for jaywalking to save a kitty(Iraq/World) from being run over(Saddam Hussein) vs. Open Genocide.

So let me put this in a hypothetical to you, You have 2 minutes before a nuke somewhere in new york city is about to go off, you captured the guy who has the code and the location of the nuke. What are you going to do? Ask him nicely, wait for him. What are you going to do?Even then, has the torture of Iraqi's and terrorists affected you in anyway besides preventing hrmmm another terrorist attack. Your comparing apples to bombs here...and guess what bombs are a lot deadlier than some water dripped on your face for extended periods of time or being scared out of your mind.

Fanaticals who want to kill you < mock death scenes, pain, and prison time

[Geniasis]

When your dead, no one can here you bitch about how bad torture is.

Torture doesn't save lives.

There is a difference, in perspective its like trying someone for jaywalking to save a kitty(Iraq/World) from being run over(Saddam Hussein) vs. Open Genocide.

So let me put this in a hypothetical to you, You have 2 minutes before a nuke somewhere in new york city is about to go off, you captured the guy who has the code and the location of the nuke. What are you going to do? Ask him nicely, wait for him. What are you going to do?Even then, has the torture of Iraqi's and terrorists affected you in anyway besides preventing hrmmm another terrorist attack. Your comparing apples to bombs here...and guess what bombs are a lot deadlier than some water dripped on your face for extended periods of time or being scared out of your mind.

Fanaticals who want to kill you < mock death scenes, pain, and prison time

Ridiculous hypothetical that has never happened outside of 24 and has no connection to reality. Next?

[Buffett and Colbert]

So you're saying we should punish people who had succeeded.

That's not punishment. It's executing your duties to your nation.

Did you know they create the majority of Jobs that are required right now.

False. More jobs are located in the small business sector. http://www.progressive-economics.ca/200 ... -and-jobs/

Those Welfare systems are breaking down and the Liberal solution is to add more to it.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

It would be like starting to build a pyramid and you see the bottom is about to give so your solution is to put more on top.

Except pyramids' bottoms can't give way.

There is nothing wrong with it, but this is a 9/11 remembrance speech where he should talk about the innocent and hero's who died on that day

Which he did.

because we don't have the same religious view as the terrorists and because we support Israel.

Why should religious views separate us as human beings. And Israel is becoming more and more hostile and more and more like a state we should not be allies with.

Could you start basing your arguments on fact instead of pointless babbling trying to make me sound stupid

Do you not understand the fact that you continuously make things up. Not just give biased opinions, but MAKE THINGS UP. You've been doing so all throughout this thread. You have NOT supported your claims with facts, unlike everyone else and myself.

like Liberals do to everyone who threatens their beliefs with fact.

You're impossible.