Respecting Religion

[Bottle]

If theism is all that these people have in life, then perhaps life isn't so valuable as they think.

Forgive me because I'm tired and possibly getting sick again, but this sounds like you're advocating some theists commit suicide if it gives their lives meaning.

I don't think he's advocating anything, just saying that if all somebody has is their religion then their life probably isn't all that great.

Which is an understandable way to feel, if you think about it...I mean, what would you say to somebody who tells you that the only thing they have to live for is their stamp collecting hobby? You'd probably be like, damn, no family? No friends? No aspirations? No other interests at all? Nothing? Yowch.

[The Truth and Light]

Why would you assume any specifics after a religious title?

I wouldn't. I'd assume generalities. Believe in either the ideals of Christ or ideas about Christ.

You'd be assuming.

Just because the package says "nails" doesn't mean there's not something better inside. Just because the box says "candy" doesn't mean there's even anything in it.

[Risottia]

Often times I hear from people that if someone holds a belief, then you have to respect it. But why?

I don't respect beliefs. I try to respect people.
Then again there's the case where a person might cling to a belief of his own so much that not respecting that belief (which means, to me, not actively bash it) would actually cause him suffering. That should be avoided.

[Terraius]

I believe he was trying to say simply that its pretty ignorant to judge someone so quickly off of a label or something internal or cosmetic, which makes sense and isnt such of a bad thing in my opinion.

Dont look so deep into it.

I should think that an argument against shallowness being, in and of itself, shallow, would be rather ironic.

Irony aside, every argument made must stand up to scrutiny. If it cannot do so, it must be cast aside and replaced.

Im not saying that. Im simply saying that not everything has to be a major philosophical or morality conflict/argument. Sometimes its easier to grasp the knowledge and wisdom from something by not trying to pry so deep into it.

Oh, I have plenty of reasons to judge Jesus that way. Perhaps not the stupidest fucker to ever walk or not walk the Earth, but not someone I admire, or even am neutral about. I judge people based on their beliefs, their personality, their likes, their dislikes, etc. I see no reason to exclude any of those. If someone wants to associatiate themselves with a group, I assume they're intelligent enough to know what said association entails. Muslim entails at least following some of the ideas of Mohammed, Christian entails following at least some of the ideas of Christ, atheist entails no belief in God, etc. Should I stop assuming people are that intelligent?

As a side discussion, what exactly it is that surrounds Jesus's teachings to make you have plenty of reason to judge him, or rather that pushes you to be 'far from neutral' from him, out of curiosity?

Yes you may not intentionally be trying to be an Inquisitor but I really think you should go for the priesthood.As you know your stuff. Or join the Ordo Heritcus of his Holiness Holy Inquisition (doesn't exist anymore but still)

Apparently most of what I've said has been this

Thanks, and dont be too hard on yourself, religion is a vast subject to grasp and even people with theological degrees will still admit they learn more each day. Alot of your points were common misconceptions I just wanted to clarify.

Also, the Inquisition does still exist, it was only renamed to the Holy Office and subsequently to the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, which Pope Benedict headed as Prefect until his election as Supreme Pontiff.

[The Truth and Light]

You come to the more reasonable and individual conclusions here by realizing theat behind the title could be a liar or an idiot, or something you find you completely failed to anticipate. Ding ding.

I tend to not assume people are liars or idiots. Sue me.

Because you shouldn't assume anyway.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I wouldn't. I'd assume generalities. Believe in either the ideals of Christ or ideas about Christ.

You'd be assuming.

Just because the package says "nails" doesn't mean there's not something better inside. Just because the box says "candy" doesn't mean there's even anything in it.

But it is what you're expecting. Yes, things could be the opposite, but it's what you're expecting.

What's usually inside a box labeled 'nails'?

[The Truth and Light]

You'd be assuming.

Just because the package says "nails" doesn't mean there's not something better inside. Just because the box says "candy" doesn't mean there's even anything in it.

But it is what you're expecting. Yes, things could be the opposite, but it's what you're expecting.

What's usually inside a box labeled 'nails'?

One I got for Christmas had an iPod in it. Just sayin'.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

But it is what you're expecting. Yes, things could be the opposite, but it's what you're expecting.

What's usually inside a box labeled 'nails'?

One I got for Christmas had an iPod in it. Just sayin'.

Was it wrapped?

[Ashmoria]

Often times I hear from people that if someone holds a belief, then you have to respect it. But why?
Why must I respect a belief for no other reason then because someone holds that belief?
Shouldn't a belief be respected based on its truthfulness and morality?

Note that I think there is a BIG difference between not showing respect towards a belief, and not showing respect towards the person who holds said belief.
There is an unfortunate habit among the religious of identifying their religion with themselves, so that if someone questions or criticizes their belief, they take it as a personal insult.
Anyways. NS, do you believe that people's religion, beliefs, or opinion should be respected just because someone holds that belief?

yes

it keeps the number of needless fights to a minimum.

[The Truth and Light]

One I got for Christmas had an iPod in it. Just sayin'.

Was it wrapped?

I see your point.

[Astrolinium]

Forgive me because I'm tired and possibly getting sick again, but this sounds like you're advocating some theists commit suicide if it gives their lives meaning.

No, I'm saying that their lives don't have much value to them if all that they value about it is their belief in God.

I'm not talking about suicide. I'm saying that they have little appreciation of life.

Alright. How did you get "all they value is their belief in God" out of "[t]heism gives some meaning to the lives of many people"?

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Was it wrapped?

I see your point.

All I'm saying, and this is the last of it for me because I am not processing information properly, is that this also has a lot to do with personal experience.

Say you are Protestant and you live in an area that has always seen violence from Catholics against Protestants. You meet a Catholic. What are you going to be expecting?

[Bottle]

I see your point.

All I'm saying, and this is the last of it for me because I am not processing information properly, is that this also has a lot to do with personal experience.

Say you are Protestant and you live in an area that has always seen violence from Catholics against Protestants. You meet a Catholic. What are you going to be expecting?

Better expect to be shamed by a bunch of Catholics who feel that it is TOTALLY UNFAIR for members of a persecuted minority to start forming negative assumptions about the people who routinely stomp on them.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

All I'm saying, and this is the last of it for me because I am not processing information properly, is that this also has a lot to do with personal experience.

Say you are Protestant and you live in an area that has always seen violence from Catholics against Protestants. You meet a Catholic. What are you going to be expecting?

Better expect to be shamed by a bunch of Catholics who feel that it is TOTALLY UNFAIR for members of a persecuted minority to start forming negative assumptions about the people who routinely stomp on them.

See? You have an expectation. You're judging by what you have seen of Catholics, regardless of whether this person may be decent or not.

Did I convey what I wanted to say? >.>

[Freeman]

People who do not worship paganism like us are inherently inferior
And should be treated as such.

[The Truth and Light]

Better expect to be shamed by a bunch of Catholics who feel that it is TOTALLY UNFAIR for members of a persecuted minority to start forming negative assumptions about the people who routinely stomp on them.

See? You have an expectation. You're judging by what you have seen of Catholics, regardless of whether this person may be decent or not.

Did I convey what I wanted to say? >.>

Yes you did. I still think such judgements would be completely ignorant, though. It would be like me expecting all Muslims to be terrorists.

[Bottle]

Better expect to be shamed by a bunch of Catholics who feel that it is TOTALLY UNFAIR for members of a persecuted minority to start forming negative assumptions about the people who routinely stomp on them.

See? You have an expectation. You're judging by what you have seen of Catholics, regardless of whether this person may be decent or not.

Did I convey what I wanted to say? >.>

Haha, absolutely, and I agree.

All this talk about how we shouldn't assume is, frankly, total BS. It is natural, normal, and entirely reasonable to form expectations based on past experiences. As long as you are willing to update your expectations based on new data, there's no harm at all.

[The Realm of God]

People who do not worship paganism like us are inherently inferior
And should be treated as such.

You do know this is OOC....right?

[Demen 2]

When you respect my science and reason, I'll respect your god.

Until then, fuck him.

[The Truth and Light]

When you respect my science and reason, I'll respect your god.

Until then, fuck him.

I love abiogenesis. Fascinates me.

[The Realm of God]

When you respect my science and reason, I'll respect your god.

Until then, fuck him.

Thats Harsh, the church supports science for the most part

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

See? You have an expectation. You're judging by what you have seen of Catholics, regardless of whether this person may be decent or not.

Did I convey what I wanted to say? >.>

Yes you did. I still think such judgements would be completely ignorant, though. It would be like me expecting all Muslims to be terrorists.

But you see, a lot of people expect exactly that.

To use Bottle's statement:

It is natural, normal, and entirely reasonable to form expectations based on past experiences. As long as you are willing to update your expectations based on new data, there's no harm at all.

[Melripose]

I don't feel the need to respect someone's belief, regardless of what it is. I am not compelled to show respect to someone's racism, sexism, homophobia, etc, so why should I feel any differently about someone's imaginary friend? An unfounded belief is an unfounded belief. Thinking that religious views should be protected from examination, dissection and mockery comes from a sense of unwarranted entitlement that I feel no need to honor.

That said, if someone doesn't bring it up, I'm not going to going to get into it because I'd rather not waste my time with yet another discussion over Invisible Sky Man/Earth Woman/etc. And, of course, there are views I respect that I don't share. Religious views just happen to not be on that list.

[Bottle]

When you respect my science and reason, I'll respect your god.

Until then, fuck him.

Thats Harsh

The Golden Rule: it's harsh, if you're an asshole.

[The Truth and Light]

But you see, a lot of people expect exactly that.

Wrongly.