Does religion cause war?

[Big Jim P]

You are all ba-a-ad boys.

http://www.yuksrus.com/sheepwav.gif

Jo says we both are pigs.

[Saiwania]

Religion has already caused numerous wars. For example, as soon as Islam took off- its followers began a spree of invasions of conquest to forcibly convert people to it. This kept happening until they were stopped at the Battle of Tours and it took several centuries until they were finally kicked out of Spain. Conflict between Muslims and Christians has continued off and on thereafter. Islamist lunatics continue to try to force people to become Muslim in many parts of the world. While aggressive proselytizing isn't limited to just Islam, I find it to be very much an aggressor religion. Although it has gotten better in that, they haven't tried to expand the Muslim world through military means so much anymore.

[Meon]

So you agree that it was the Muslims who started the Muslim-Christian conflict by attacking Christian land, centuries before "The Crusades". The whole concept of "The Crusades" is an invention. What I mean is that "The Crusades" (1095 - 1272) were just one part of a conflict that had already been raging for over 400 years, and continuted to rage for over 400 years afterwards. Instead of looking at 1095-1272 we should look at 636-1683. The Western Christians during the First Crusade had every reason to believe that if the Eastern Christians fell, they'd be next. Most Crusaders were French, right? The French still remembered when they narrowly avoided being swallowed up by a Muslim invasion at the Battle of tours in 732 AD. To single out the Crusades as an example of Christian aggression against innocent Muslims would be like singling out D-Day as an example of American aggression against innocent Nazis.

So I suppose, by the same token, the German invasion of France in WW2 was completely justified since it was part of a centuries long conflict between the two nations?

France declared war on Germany on September 3rd 1939, because Germany was attacking France's ally. Similarly, the Western Christians launched the First Crusade in 1095, because the Muslims were attacking their ally. Germany didn't invade France until May 10th 1940, after France declared war on them.

When the Western Christians answered the Eastern Christian's request for backup against the invading Seljuk Muslims in 1095 (ie the First Crusade), the Muslims were already invading right then and there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine-Seljuk_wars
Kapetron 1048 - Muslim Offensive
Manzikert 1054 - Muslim Offensive
Caesarea 1067 - Muslim Offensive
Iconium 1069 - Muslim Offensive
Manzikert 1071 - Muslim Offensive
Agean 1081-1095 - Muslim Offensive
Crusades 1095-1272 - Christian Offensive

Don't believe the hype about the Crusades. It wasn't evil imperialistic Christians trying to genocide peaceful innocent Muslims just because they were Muslims. The Muslims had spent the previous 450 years raping and pillaging huge swathes of Christian land, defended only by local Christians. In "the Crusades", a recently divided Christendom co-ordinated a defence plan, and decided that while they were there they'd take back what the Muslims stole from them. And we criticse them for it and make out like they were the bad guys.

The Muslim invasion of Christian Anatolia in 1048 is what sparked off "the Crusades". Alexios I Komnenos appealed to Western Christendom to please send re-enforcements in his struggle to hold back the Muslim invasion. The Western Christians obliged, since if Eastern Christendom fell, they knew Western Christendom would be next. Western Christians remembered the Muslim conquest of Western Christian territories such as North Africa, Spain, Italy, and France, where many scholars argue that all of Europe narrowly avoided being swallowed up by the belligerant Umayyad Caliphate.

[Meon]

So you agree that it was the Muslims who started the Muslim-Christian conflict by attacking Christian land, centuries before "The Crusades". The whole concept of "The Crusades" is an invention. What I mean is that "The Crusades" (1095 - 1272) were just one part of a conflict that had already been raging for over 400 years, and continuted to rage for over 400 years afterwards. Instead of looking at 1095-1272 we should look at 634-1683. The Western Christians during the First Crusade had every reason to believe that if the Eastern Christians fell, they'd be next. Most Crusaders were French, right? The French still remembered when they narrowly avoided being swallowed up by a Muslim invasion at the Battle of Tours in 732 AD. To single out the Crusades as an example of Christian aggression against innocent Muslims would be like singling out D-Day as an example of American aggression against innocent Nazis.

you forget that Christianity is a ofshute of Judaism and Islam of Ismalian sumeticks that war started with Isick/Ishmale or Jarico depending if you bleave scripture or anthropology. it gets fussy but that conflict predates Christianity by millennia

I don't know what you're talking about. Christianity, Islam and Baha'i are all offshoots of Judaism.

[ALMF]

you forget that Christianity is a ofshute of Judaism and Islam of Ismalian sumeticks that war started with Isick/Ishmale or Jarico depending if you bleave scripture or anthropology. it gets fussy but that conflict predates Christianity by millennia

I don't know what you're talking about. Christianity, Islam and Baha'i are all offshoots of Judaism.

Only in the most expansive seance the split was when the founder of Judaism (abroham) was alive. by the time of Mosis in "Egipt" the two branches were established altoue the mohonden variant called muslum dosent appear entill mohamid 6 millennia later. The premohomiden practitioners of islolme were called the Canaanites in the third malinea BCE for instance.

[Imbrinium]

It doesn't really help really! There hae been more wars fought and more people have died cause of that word. It's sad to know that differences of religion can cause nations to be destroyed and people to be lost in time.

[Toe-Cheeseland]

Yes.

[Der Teutoniker]

Religion has already caused numerous wars. For example, as soon as Islam took off- its followers began a spree of invasions of conquest to forcibly convert people to it.

You don't think that conversion to Islam was simply a great way to motivate people into expanding a leaders territory/power/resources?

[Der Teutoniker]

Yes.

Any explanation?

[Conserative Morality]

So I suppose, by the same token, the German invasion of France in WW2 was completely justified since it was part of a centuries long conflict between the two nations?

France declared war on Germany on September 3rd 1939, because Germany was attacking France's ally. Similarly, the Western Christians launched the First Crusade in 1095, because the Muslims were attacking their ally. Germany didn't invade France until May 10th 1940, after France declared war on them. [/quote]
So that's a yes, is it?

[Vyvansia]

Not really. Most wars are over economics.