Does religion cause war?

[Arkinesia]

No, humans cause war.

Gawd, this is as bad as people claiming guns cause gun violence.

Guns don't promote hatred of non-gun owners and disputes about which gun is better don't tend to cause death nearly as often as religion.

I could pull out Jeremy Clarkson if you want me to.

The fact is religion is just another vehicle for humans to give reasons for war. If there hadn't been religion, there would have been colors of carrots, or breeds of dog, or whether or not to cut down that tree over there. Religion isn't the right and proper cause of war, nor, admittedly, is humanity itself--rather, it's human nature.

[Meon]

Religion itself has never started a war. It was ignorance, hatred, pride, and greed that has started every war in history. If you bring to the table any war that has been "started by religion" these will be the actual underling reasons. For example, The Crusades of the Middle Ages are commonly called wars of religions, but actually it was ignorance, hatred, pride, and greed that was the reasons for the wars. The Christian Armies were ignorant of the Muslim inhabitants of the Holy Land which lead to hatred for them, because they are different. This hatred fueled the pride and greed. They said, "We're proud Christians, we deserve our Holy Land".

If they were caused by ignorance, hatred, pride and greed, then it was the ignorance, hatred, pride and greed of the Muslims. When the First Crusade was called in 1095, Muslims had already been invading and conquering Christian lands for 400 years. The Crusades were innocent Christians defending themselves against belligerant Muslims.

Don't believe me? Watch this short video. Or, jump onto wikipedia and research all the atrocities Muslims committed against Christians from the 7th - 11th centuries [that's centuries BEFORE the Crusades], and then get back to me.

Muslim Conquest of Christian Syria, 634-638 AD Caused by Muslim ignorance?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Egypt, 639 - 642 AD Caused by Muslim hatred?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Armenia, 639 - 645 AD Caused by Muslim pride?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Georgia, 645 - 736 AD Caused by Muslim greed?
Muslim Conquest of Christian North Africa, 647 - 709 AD More Muslim ignorance.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Cyprus, 650 - 688 AD More Muslim hatred.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Sicilly and Malta, 652 - 902 AD More Muslim pride.
1st Muslim Siege of Christian Constantinople, 674 - 678 AD More Muslim greed.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Spain, 711 - 718 AD Innocent Christians / ignorant Muslims.
2nd Muslim Siege of Christian Constantinople, 717 - 718 AD Innocent Christians / hateful Muslims.
Muslim Invasion of Christian France, 719 - 759 ADInnocent Christians / proud Muslims.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Crete, 824 - 827 AD Innocent Christians / greedy Muslims.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine–Seljuq_Wars]Muslim Conquest of Christian Anatolia, 1048 - 1308 AD[/url] The straw that broke the Camel's back.

In 1095 when Pope Urban II called the First Crusade, Christians had been suffering at the hands of imperialist, aggressive Muslims for 400 years. And they decided it was time to fight back. If you want someone to blame for The Crusades, the blame is 100% on the Muslims.

EDIT: I can't make that last link work. But the direct cause of the First Crusade was the Muslim invasion of Christian Anatolia, which began in 1048 AD when Muslim armies totally destroyed the Christian city of Arzen with no provocation. The Arab chronicler Ibn al-Athir reports that the Muslims took 100,000 [Christan] captives and a vast booty [stolen from Christians] loaded on the backs of ten thousand camels.

[Big Jim P]

I am aware of this. However, theirs were not the wars under discussion (unless I missed something).

My point is that human do not cause war or at least are not the only cause of war.

Should read: Humans aren't the only species to wage war. However, we are discussing human wars.

[Big Jim P]

Religion itself has never started a war. It was ignorance, hatred, pride, and greed that has started every war in history. If you bring to the table any war that has been "started by religion" these will be the actual underling reasons. For example, The Crusades of the Middle Ages are commonly called wars of religions, but actually it was ignorance, hatred, pride, and greed that was the reasons for the wars. The Christian Armies were ignorant of the Muslim inhabitants of the Holy Land which lead to hatred for them, because they are different. This hatred fueled the pride and greed. They said, "We're proud Christians, we deserve our Holy Land".

If they were caused by ignorance, hatred, pride and greed, then it was the ignorance, hatred, pride and greed of the Muslims. When the First Crusade was called in 1095, Muslims had already been invading and conquering Christian lands for 400 years. The Crusades were innocent Christians defending themselves against belligerant Muslims.

Don't believe me? Watch this short video. Or, jump onto wikipedia and research all the atrocities Muslims committed against Christians from the 7th - 11th centuries [that's centuries BEFORE the Crusades], and then get back to me.

Muslim Conquest of Christian Syria, 634-638 AD Caused by Muslim ignorance?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Egypt, 639 - 642 AD Caused by Muslim hatred?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Armenia, 639 - 645 ADCaused by Muslim pride?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Georgia, 645 - 736 AD Caused by Muslim greed?
Muslim Conquest of Christian North Africa, 647 - 709 AD More Muslim ignorance.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Cyprus, 650 - 688 AD More Muslim hatred.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Sicilly and Malta, 652 - 902 AD More Muslim pride.
1st Muslim Siege of Christian Constantinople, 674 - 678 AD More Muslim greed.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Spain, 711 - 718 AD Innocent Christians / ignorant Muslims.
2nd Muslim Siege of Christian Constantinople, 717 - 718 AD Innocent Christians / hateful Muslims.
Muslim Invasion of Christian France, 719 - 759 ADInnocent Christians / proud Muslims.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Crete, 824 - 827 AD Innocent Christians / greedy Muslims.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine–Seljuq_Wars]Muslim Conquest of Christian Anatolia, 1048 - 1308 AD[/url] The straw that broke the Camel's back.

In 1095 when Pope Urban II called the First Crusade, Christians had been suffering at the hands of imperialist, aggressive Muslims for 400 years. And they decided it was time to fight back. If you want someone to blame for The Crusades, the blame is 100% on the Muslims.

You could also blame the European Christians for not minding their own business.

[Terruana]

Depends how you look at it... Religion has undeniably been used as an excuse to go to war, but I suspect in many of those cases, the people who started the war would have done so anyway, even if religion hadn't existed as a reason.
On the other hand, religion gives people false courage to risk their lives based on the promise of some kind of afterlife/reincarnation, so by that logic, it stops people valuing their lives so much and could be a contributing factor to them starting a war they could very well die in. That is to say, had there been no religion, they might not have wanted to risk their life for a pointless war.

[Meon]

If they were caused by ignorance, hatred, pride and greed, then it was the ignorance, hatred, pride and greed of the Muslims. When the First Crusade was called in 1095, Muslims had already been invading and conquering Christian lands for 400 years. The Crusades were innocent Christians defending themselves against belligerant Muslims.

Don't believe me? Watch this short video. Or, jump onto wikipedia and research all the atrocities Muslims committed against Christians from the 7th - 11th centuries [that's centuries BEFORE the Crusades], and then get back to me.

Muslim Conquest of Christian Syria, 634-638 AD Caused by Muslim ignorance?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Egypt, 639 - 642 AD Caused by Muslim hatred?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Armenia, 639 - 645 ADCaused by Muslim pride?
Muslim Conquest of Christian Georgia, 645 - 736 AD Caused by Muslim greed?
Muslim Conquest of Christian North Africa, 647 - 709 AD More Muslim ignorance.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Cyprus, 650 - 688 AD More Muslim hatred.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Sicilly and Malta, 652 - 902 AD More Muslim pride.
1st Muslim Siege of Christian Constantinople, 674 - 678 AD More Muslim greed.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Spain, 711 - 718 AD Innocent Christians / ignorant Muslims.
2nd Muslim Siege of Christian Constantinople, 717 - 718 AD Innocent Christians / hateful Muslims.
Muslim Invasion of Christian France, 719 - 759 ADInnocent Christians / proud Muslims.
Muslim Conquest of Christian Crete, 824 - 827 AD Innocent Christians / greedy Muslims.

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine–Seljuq_Wars]Muslim Conquest of Christian Anatolia, 1048 - 1308 AD[/url] The straw that broke the Camel's back.

In 1095 when Pope Urban II called the First Crusade, Christians had been suffering at the hands of imperialist, aggressive Muslims for 400 years. And they decided it was time to fight back. If you want someone to blame for The Crusades, the blame is 100% on the Muslims.

You could also blame the European Christians for not minding their own business.

Forgive me, but where are Spain, Cyprus, Sicilly, Malta, Crete, Constantinople and France located?

[Meon]

Israel and Palestine.

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . [Quran 2:62]

Israel and Palestine is more to do with politics i.e how would you like it if you were invaded. As you can see Muslims have to respect Christians and Jews.

So how do you explain these passages?

Ye are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book [Christians and Jews] had faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors. ('Qu'ran 3:110)

Keep us on the right path. The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray. (Qu'ran 1:6-7) [Muhammad was asked if these words pertained to Jews and Christians. His response was, "Whom else?" (Bukhari 56:662)].

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves… [Qu'ran 48:29]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. [Qu'ran 9:29]

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him." [Bukhari 52:177]

[TheRightWay]

Its an enabling viewpoint and sometimes a strong motivator

People still ultimately are responsible but religion does not help the situation

[Big Jim P]

You could also blame the European Christians for not minding their own business.

Forgive me, but where are Spain, Cyprus, Sicilly, Malta, Crete, Constantinople and France located?

If you are refering to the Moorish invasion of Europe, the Muslims should have minded their own business as well.

[Meon]

Forgive me, but where are Spain, Cyprus, Sicilly, Malta, Crete, Constantinople and France located?

If you are refering to the Moorish invasion of Europe, the Muslims should have minded their own business as well.

So you agree that it was the Muslims who started the Muslim-Christian conflict by attacking Christian land, centuries before "The Crusades". The whole concept of "The Crusades" is an invention. What I mean is that "The Crusades" (1095 - 1272) were just one part of a conflict that had already been raging for over 400 years, and continuted to rage for over 400 years afterwards. Instead of looking at 1095-1272 we should look at 634-1683. The Western Christians during the First Crusade had every reason to believe that if the Eastern Christians fell, they'd be next. Most Crusaders were French, right? The French still remembered when they narrowly avoided being swallowed up by a Muslim invasion at the Battle of Tours in 732 AD. To single out the Crusades as an example of Christian aggression against innocent Muslims would be like singling out D-Day as an example of American aggression against innocent Nazis.

[Conserative Morality]

Not usually. Sometimes it's the excuse, rarely is it the cause.

[Conserative Morality]

So you agree that it was the Muslims who started the Muslim-Christian conflict by attacking Christian land, centuries before "The Crusades". The whole concept of "The Crusades" is an invention. What I mean is that "The Crusades" (1095 - 1272) were just one part of a conflict that had already been raging for over 400 years, and continuted to rage for over 400 years afterwards. Instead of looking at 1095-1272 we should look at 636-1683. The Western Christians during the First Crusade had every reason to believe that if the Eastern Christians fell, they'd be next. Most Crusaders were French, right? The French still remembered when they narrowly avoided being swallowed up by a Muslim invasion at the Battle of tours in 732 AD. To single out the Crusades as an example of Christian aggression against innocent Muslims would be like singling out D-Day as an example of American aggression against innocent Nazis.

So I suppose, by the same token, the German invasion of France in WW2 was completely justified since it was part of a centuries long conflict between the two nations?

[Big Jim P]

If you are refering to the Moorish invasion of Europe, the Muslims should have minded their own business as well.

So you agree that it was the Muslims who started the Muslim-Christian conflict by attacking Christian land, centuries before "The Crusades". The whole concept of "The Crusades" is an invention. What I mean is that "The Crusades" (1095 - 1272) were just one part of a conflict that had already been raging for over 400 years, and continuted to rage for over 400 years afterwards. Instead of looking at 1095-1272 we should look at 634-1683. The Western Christians during the First Crusade had every reason to believe that if the Eastern Christians fell, they'd be next. Most Crusaders were French, right? The French still remembered when they narrowly avoided being swallowed up by a Muslim invasion at the Battle of tours in 732 AD. To single out the Crusades as an example of Christian aggression against innocent Muslims would be like singling out D-Day as an example of American aggression against innocent Nazis.

If Judaism had remained a middle-eastern cult, instead of spawning it's two bastard offspring, then perhaps none of this would have occurred.

[SaintB]

Nearly anything can be used as a cause for war. People cause war, the ideals they use vary.

[Great Malema]

In some cases it does. Most of the time its the religious fanatics who cause the war, not the religion itself.

[ALMF]

If you are refering to the Moorish invasion of Europe, the Muslims should have minded their own business as well.

So you agree that it was the Muslims who started the Muslim-Christian conflict by attacking Christian land, centuries before "The Crusades". The whole concept of "The Crusades" is an invention. What I mean is that "The Crusades" (1095 - 1272) were just one part of a conflict that had already been raging for over 400 years, and continuted to rage for over 400 years afterwards. Instead of looking at 1095-1272 we should look at 634-1683. The Western Christians during the First Crusade had every reason to believe that if the Eastern Christians fell, they'd be next. Most Crusaders were French, right? The French still remembered when they narrowly avoided being swallowed up by a Muslim invasion at the Battle of Tours in 732 AD. To single out the Crusades as an example of Christian aggression against innocent Muslims would be like singling out D-Day as an example of American aggression against innocent Nazis.

you forget that Christianity is a ofshute of Judaism and Islam of Ismalian sumeticks that war started with Isick/Ishmale or Jarico depending if you bleave scripture or anthropology. it gets fussy but that conflict predates Christianity by millennia

[Pope Joan]

Another retread.

I ought to just keep a file of stock replies.

Religion is a convenient excuse for those who want to kill their fellow citizens in the name of power and pride, and often profit as well.

But it is simply a convenience; other excuses have proved equally handy, such as ideology, or ethnocentrism.

Any commonly shared value to keep the populace from reasoning deeply about why they are sending their sons off into the meatgrinder.

[Arborlawn]

No, but people do.

[Indig0]

yes religion often causes war. just look at the constant fighting in the middle east.

[Pope Joan]

yes religion often causes war. just look at the constant fighting in the middle east.

I still think religion is more of a concomitant than a cause. Neighboring groups are prone to fight each other. I'm a Scot, I should know. It helps excuse this bad behavior if you can throw in religion but it's only an excuse. If the Albanians had never been converted by the Turks they would still hate the Serbs.

[Tlaceceyaya]

yes religion often causes war. just look at the constant fighting in the middle east.

I still think religion is more of a concomitant than a cause. Neighboring groups are prone to fight each other. I'm a Scot, I should know. It helps excuse this bad behavior if you can throw in religion but it's only an excuse. If the Albanians had never been converted by the Turks they would still hate the Serbs.

Ah, but religion intensifies it. Both sides think they are right and may even think that they will be eternally rewarded for killing the other side.

[Pope Joan]

I still think religion is more of a concomitant than a cause. Neighboring groups are prone to fight each other. I'm a Scot, I should know. It helps excuse this bad behavior if you can throw in religion but it's only an excuse. If the Albanians had never been converted by the Turks they would still hate the Serbs.

Ah, but religion intensifies it. Both sides think they are right and may even think that they will be eternally rewarded for killing the other side.

But we Scots are all Presbyterians and we just kill and maim for the fun of it...and for the sheep.

[Big Jim P]

Ah, but religion intensifies it. Both sides think they are right and may even think that they will be eternally rewarded for killing the other side.

But we Scots are all Presbyterians and we just kill and maim for the fun of it...and for the sheep.

You are all ba-a-ad boys.

[Pope Joan]

But we Scots are all Presbyterians and we just kill and maim for the fun of it...and for the sheep.

You are all ba-a-ad boys.

http://www.yuksrus.com/sheepwav.gif

[The Burj Earth]

I would like to say yes,but no.We've found PLENTY of other reasons to kill people for the past couple of eons.I would also add that those who are "warriors of [insert generic religion here]",have no right to call themselves religous when they can't even understand the rules they claim to follow.