Why do Neo-Nazis exist?

[Israslovakahzerbajan]

Like destroying Germany's economy, tearing down the social structure of Germany, making a cult of personality around a single man of below average intelligence...?

You're wrong about all of that, except for the cult part.

I'm no history buff (so leave out the politics and economics)...however I am sure Hitler's mental state really wasn't the best to start off(and his possible substance abuse didn't make things better) so, yeah. I'm not sure if it was Below Average intelligence but Hitler probably wasn't the most stable mind out there.

[The Germania Alliance]

You're wrong about all of that, except for the cult part.

Oh, of course, I forgot that Nazi myths of economic superiority in a time when Germany's living standards dramatically decreased, even moreso than the rest of the developed world at that time were still in effect. I'm a little curious about what you think the secret police, widespread political violence and atmosphere of fear that were created by the Nazi party had on general society.

I think it's funny how you think bringing anything else up but the economy is an argument.

Germany's economy began to fail during WWI, and then entirely collapsed afterwards. When the Nazi party came into power, the economy began to improve, regardless of the living conditions or how the people were treated. The people had jobs and never had to worry about being laid off, the economy wasn't collapsing, and in general, people were content. Had WWII never happened, Germany's economy would have only improved.

I fail to understand why you think Hitler destroyed Germany's economy, when he was the one who implemented the plan to fix it. Sure, it collapsed during WWII, but it was essentially Germany against the world. The economy was forced to fail.

[Sidhae]

Now now, Hitler wasn't all bad.

I'd be a Nazi to if Hitler didn't have 11 million kills under his belt.

Then I guess you should doubly avoid being a Commie - Stalin and Mao's frag list make Adolph look like a total noob.

[Distruzio]

Scary thought.

Not really. I'm met some very nice National Socialists, both of the Hitlerian and Strasserist persuasions.

This is true. I've met a number of national socialists in the white nationalist/southern nationalist conventions. Although I know that they'd endorse a policy of murder against me and mine for my ethnicity and faith, they were polite. I'd rather a polite psychopath who hated me be my neighbor than an impolite sap who loved me.

[New Conglomerate]

I'd rather a polite psychopath who hated me be my neighbor than an impolite sap who loved me.

With all due respect, Dizzy, that's pretty damn crazy.

I don't care how nice they are, as someone who is considered a mud-person by these miscreants (1/64th black and ethnically Jewish), I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I'd be more worried for your safety if I didn't know that you're pretty well armed.

[Distruzio]

I'd rather a polite psychopath who hated me be my neighbor than an impolite sap who loved me.

With all due respect, Dizzy, that's pretty damn crazy.

I don't care how nice they are, as someone who is considered a mud-person by these miscreants (1/64th black and ethnically Jewish), I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

I'd be more worried for your safety if I didn't know that you're pretty well armed.

We'll thanks! But really, it isn't intent that concerns me. It's the act. If my neighbor really loves me but drives through my yard, steals my mail, dumps trash on my property, and leads at my wife - he's an asshole from hell.

But the guy who hates me and does precisely the opposite? He's a swell guy. Plus, I can trust the nazi scum to hate the police and criminals as Mich as I do.

[Conserative Morality]

I think it's funny how you think bringing anything else up but the economy is an argument.

Germany's economy began to fail during WWI, and then entirely collapsed afterwards. When the Nazi party came into power, the economy began to improve, regardless of the living conditions or how the people were treated. The people had jobs and never had to worry about being laid off, the economy wasn't collapsing, and in general, people were content. Had WWII never happened, Germany's economy would have only improved.

I fail to understand why you think Hitler destroyed Germany's economy, when he was the one who implemented the plan to fix it. Sure, it collapsed during WWII, but it was essentially Germany against the world. The economy was forced to fail.

What?

You mean Germany's HUGE deficit and national debt were signs of the economy improving?

You mean the people who lived in constant fear and who were living at worse than pre-1930 levels were perfectly content?

You mean the same man who considered the economy of secondary importance and set up an economic system rife with corruption and cronyism would have IMPROVED Germany's economy?

What the fuck?

1933-1936 Germany didn't do too terribly due to their pursuit of Keynesianist policies, but they set themselves up for disaster through their rampant military spending and terrible mismanagement of the economy even then.

[New Conglomerate]

Oh, of course, I forgot that Nazi myths of economic superiority in a time when Germany's living standards dramatically decreased, even moreso than the rest of the developed world at that time were still in effect. I'm a little curious about what you think the secret police, widespread political violence and atmosphere of fear that were created by the Nazi party had on general society.

I think it's funny how you think bringing anything else up but the economy is an argument.

Germany's economy began to fail during WWI, and then entirely collapsed afterwards. When the Nazi party came into power, the economy began to improve, regardless of the living conditions or how the people were treated. The people had jobs and never had to worry about being laid off, the economy wasn't collapsing, and in general, people were content. Had WWII never happened, Germany's economy would have only improved.

I fail to understand why you think Hitler destroyed Germany's economy, when he was the one who implemented the plan to fix it. Sure, it collapsed during WWII, but it was essentially Germany against the world. The economy was forced to fail.

Germany's economy didn't really improve in the same sense as the American economy is currently improving.

War economies can create artificial full employment (it helps that the Nazis pushed women out of the work force). However, the living standards, average pay, worker rights, and general welfare of society began to fail very shortly after Hjalmar Schact got kicked upstairs.

Nazi propaganda effectively portrayed the Greater German Reich as being a very efficient, prosperous, and organized. It was none of those three. Orwell didn't get all of his totalitarian ideas from the USSR.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Dressing up in sexy outfits and hating on other people together helps build a sense of community. Stupid people really like to validate their lives based on who they hate the most.

[The Germania Alliance]

-snip-

Ah, now we decide to address the issue.

Now if I may, please provide sources like I'm going to.

Let me begin by saying while Germany WAS in debt, Hitler refused the pay reparations and U.S. banks, and nothing was done for it.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061024182500AAbTBrL

http://www.fsmitha.com/h2/ch16.htm

http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/02-07-2009/107924-hitler-0/

http://trhfaq.tripod.com/005.html (Again, economy improved up until the war)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111201080543AAV2LyI

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/GE24Dj01.html

The list goes on, in the hundreds.

Again, the economy only failed leading up the the end of WWI, and again during WWII.

[Distruzio]

This is my attept to repost this nonsense as a proper thread, as I fell it will make for an interesting discussion.

The question is, of course, why do neo-nazi groups exist? Why are there people who seem to see the Third Riech as something to be emmulated or glorified?
As we all know, the Nazi regime was an authoritarian Facsist dictatorship involving racial nationalism, a personality cult, genocide on a massive and industrialized scale, and the standard dictatorial violence.

Personally, I think that people today are attracted to Nazism for the same reasons they were then: They feel somehow let down or betrayed by society and channel that into nationalist or racist fervor.

What sayeth thee, NationStates General?

Without sliding into a psuedo-psychological analysis I'd say that neo-nazis exist b/c they agree with nazism.


Hows about we counter with a question for you? Why do you think nazism is viewed with skepticism? If we were to divorce the ideology from the holocaust, would you question the validity of adherence to it?

[Hathradic States]

Asking why a Neo-Nazi exist is like asking why a communist exist. Just because you find an ideology abhorrent doesn't mean somebody else doesn't find it patable with their taste.

[Trotskylvania]

Oh, of course, I forgot that Nazi myths of economic superiority in a time when Germany's living standards dramatically decreased, even moreso than the rest of the developed world at that time were still in effect. I'm a little curious about what you think the secret police, widespread political violence and atmosphere of fear that were created by the Nazi party had on general society.

I think it's funny how you think bringing anything else up but the economy is an argument.

Germany's economy began to fail during WWI, and then entirely collapsed afterwards. When the Nazi party came into power, the economy began to improve, regardless of the living conditions or how the people were treated. The people had jobs and never had to worry about being laid off, the economy wasn't collapsing, and in general, people were content. Had WWII never happened, Germany's economy would have only improved.

I fail to understand why you think Hitler destroyed Germany's economy, when he was the one who implemented the plan to fix it. Sure, it collapsed during WWII, but it was essentially Germany against the world. The economy was forced to fail.

Leaving aside the fact that your passing off period Nazi propaganda as truth that has long been utterly deconstructed (see The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze), Nazi economic policy made WWII inevitable. Nazi rearmament policies, which committed greater than 10 percent of GNP every year to armament production and military expenditure, crippled the economy in the long term. Adding that much of this was done on credit to artificially improve living standards for the middle class while Nazi labor policy deflated income of the working classes (and thus aggregate demand), and it was quite clear that the only way to keep the whole economy moving was plunder. The plundering of Austria after the Anschluss, and of Czechoslovakia kept the economy going until the Second World War, after which the whole system survived on the mass starvation of peoples in conquered territories to ensure food and raw materials kept the Reich's core functioning.

The Nazi state was a cancerous growth that needed to be excised.

[The Germania Alliance]

Leaving aside the fact that your passing off period Nazi propaganda as truth that has long been utterly deconstructed (see The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze), Nazi economic policy made WWII inevitable. Nazi rearmament policies, which committed greater than 10 percent of GNP every year to armament production and military expenditure, crippled the economy in the long term. Adding that much of this was done on credit to artificially improve living standards for the middle class while Nazi labor policy deflated income of the working classes (and thus aggregate demand), and it was quite clear that the only way to keep the whole economy moving was plunder. The plundering of Austria after the Anschluss, and of Czechoslovakia kept the economy going until the Second World War, after which the whole system survived on the mass starvation of peoples in conquered territories to ensure food and raw materials kept the Reich's core functioning.

The Nazi state was a cancerous growth that needed to be excised.

Ignoring everything I just posted.

[Trotskylvania]

Leaving aside the fact that your passing off period Nazi propaganda as truth that has long been utterly deconstructed (see The Wages of Destruction by Adam Tooze), Nazi economic policy made WWII inevitable. Nazi rearmament policies, which committed greater than 10 percent of GNP every year to armament production and military expenditure, crippled the economy in the long term. Adding that much of this was done on credit to artificially improve living standards for the middle class while Nazi labor policy deflated income of the working classes (and thus aggregate demand), and it was quite clear that the only way to keep the whole economy moving was plunder. The plundering of Austria after the Anschluss, and of Czechoslovakia kept the economy going until the Second World War, after which the whole system survived on the mass starvation of peoples in conquered territories to ensure food and raw materials kept the Reich's core functioning.

The Nazi state was a cancerous growth that needed to be excised.

Ignoring everything I just posted.

On what planet do you live where refutation = ignoring?

[The Germania Alliance]

On what planet do you live where refutation = ignoring?

Again, the economy only failed leading up the the end of ... WWII.

but it was essentially Germany against the world. The economy was forced to fail.

On what planet do you live where failing to read = being right?

[Wisconsin7]

Now now, Hitler wasn't all bad.

I'd be a Nazi to if Hitler didn't have 11 million kills under his belt.

Then I guess you should doubly avoid being a Commie - Stalin and Mao's frag list make Adolph look like a total noob.

Neither Stalin nor Mao are considered to have been actually Communist. Ever notice the similarities in the words "Stalinism" and "Maoism" to the names Stalin and Mao, respectively?

[The Grand World Order]

PROTIP: Neo-Nazis, for the most part, aren't Fascists or even actual Nazis.

Most of the ones I've spoken to are staunch libertarians who happen to hate "them niggers," and for God's sake, they've all told me to vote for Ron Paul. I really don't think they even understand what Nazi entails, aside from "white supremacy and killing shit."

In all likelihood, skinheads and such would likely be considered political dissidents in Nazi Germany. That, or cannon fodder.

Then I guess you should doubly avoid being a Commie - Stalin and Mao's frag list make Adolph look like a total noob.

Neither Stalin nor Mao are considered to have been actually Communist. Ever notice the similarities in the words "Stalinism" and "Maoism" to the names Stalin and Mao, respectively?

Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Titoism, anycommieleaderhere-ism: clearly not Communism.

[Trotskylvania]

On what planet do you live where refutation = ignoring?

Again, the economy only failed leading up the the end of ... WWII.

but it was essentially Germany against the world. The economy was forced to fail.

On what planet do you live where failing to read = being right?

You might want to read closer. I said:

Nazi economic policy made WWII inevitable. Nazi rearmament policies, which committed greater than 10 percent of GNP every year to armament production and military expenditure, crippled the economy in the long term. Adding that much of this was done on credit to artificially improve living standards for the middle class while Nazi labor policy deflated income of the working classes (and thus aggregate demand), and it was quite clear that the only way to keep the whole economy moving was plunder. The plundering of Austria after the Anschluss, and of Czechoslovakia kept the economy going until the Second World War, after which the whole system survived on the mass starvation of peoples in conquered territories to ensure food and raw materials kept the Reich's core functioning.

The Nazi state was a cancerous growth that needed to be excised.

I spelled it straight out for you: your facts are pre-war Nazi propaganda, not actual facts. People were living worse every year under the Nazi regime, even before WW2. They were forced to import more, but exported less, due to the horrendous inefficiency of Nazi cronyist economic policy, and they kept the whole mess going with magic and graft. The party members got access to better employment and business contracts, while the workers were forced into a fake "union" at gun point, whose sole purpose was to get them to worker harder for less, and weed out any troublemakers.

The whole system only even made to 1939 without economic depression because they plundered conquered territories in Austria and Czechoslovakia.

[Trotskylvania]

In all likelihood, skinheads and such would likely be considered political dissidents in Nazi Germany. That, or cannon fodder.

I believe the technical term for that is "useful idiot".

[The Germania Alliance]

I spelled it straight out for you: your facts are pre-war Nazi propaganda, not actual facts. People were living worse every year under the Nazi regime, even before WW2. They were forced to import more, but exported less, due to the horrendous inefficiency of Nazi cronyist economic policy, and they kept the whole mess going with magic and graft. The party members got access to better employment and business contracts, while the workers were forced into a fake "union" at gun point, whose sole purpose was to get them to worker harder for less, and weed out any troublemakers.

The whole system only even made to 1939 without economic depression because they plundered conquered territories in Austria and Czechoslovakia.

Right, and like I said before to someone else, prove it. I'm not talking about, and never did until someone else brought it up, the living conditions of the Germans. For the love of God, getting off-topic doesn't help your argument.

The economy got better. Simple as that. That's irrefutable, I don't give a damn what happened during or after the war.

[The Grand World Order]

I believe the technical term for that is "useful idiot".

Indeed.

[New Heathera]

Neo-nazis exist because they are plenty of ignorant racist thugs out there that have decided to swear faith to a dead ideology with practices that would never be allowed to happen again in the modern world.

[Ertae]

Because doze dadgum Mexeecans 'n' da Jews -- dey tooks arr jebs!!!

No, wait...that's not right.

[Wisconsin7]

Neither Stalin nor Mao are considered to have been actually Communist. Ever notice the similarities in the words "Stalinism" and "Maoism" to the names Stalin and Mao, respectively?

Marxism, Leninism, Trotskyism, Titoism, anycommieleaderhere-ism: clearly not Communism.

They're different forms of communism. Like the various branches of Christianity, I agree that they are similar, but in each one there are a few differences.
Like the whole "genocide" thing.