Son, we love you, but you shouldn't exist...

[The Rich Port]

There's a general air of stupidity in this entire affair.

I don't pick favorites.

Fine the doctor, but don't give the parents a settlement.

[Dyakovo]

He referred them to a genetic specialist. They refused to seek that qualified opinion. It's their own fault

/\ This. This couple are idiots.

[Alaje]

This is a sad story, but yeah they didn't use the resource the doctor referenced to them. They only tried to call once, their fault for not trying harder.

[Risottia]

He referred them to a genetic specialist. They refused to seek that qualified opinion. It's their own fault

Aye. I wouldn't necessarily expect an IVF specialist to keep up with the latest research on the inheritability of genetic diseases of varying obscurity.

This, more or less.
The IVF doc basically told them "I'm no specialist on genetics issues, so instead of telling you bullshit I advise you to ask a specialist" and gave them a reference. I would call this "intellectual honesty".

[Ifreann]

But this couple specifically told the IVF specialist, and asked about the risks. I think he did fail in his duty of care, and that the parents should be compensated.

NO he only failed in his duty IF he told them not to worry. If he said "I don't know here is the number of a specialist who would" it was their responsibility to use that information. You can't expect a doctor to know everything.

It seems to me that having directed them to some specialist it would be on the IVF doctor to ask them afterwards if the specialist assuaged their concerns and if they were happy that they understood the risks in that regard. But not having been there in this case I really couldn't say whether it happened or not.

[Caffeinetopia]

Nice to see that scientific illiteracy doesn't just effect Americans. I'm no genetic specialist, but I did take high school biology. So I know that there's always a chance that a father can pass on a genetic condition to his child. Now, why you would just assume that your child won't inherit the condition, I'm not sure...

I think it's ridiculously oversensitive of people with disabilities to feel "upset" or "denigrated" that their parents would prefer that they were healthy.

I understand your point, but I don't fully agree with this. Of course, I get that the parents want the child to be "healthy." But when parents start with histrionics about not getting "the child of their dreams" (I've read this phrase and similar ones from parents of autistic kids, etc...) or some such nonsense, I do think that's a little insensitive.

[The Corparation]

So the guy sent them to a specialist's office at a hospital and rather then try to see him, they gave up after a couple phone calls? I say its not entirely their fault but they should of at least tried to make an effort. Suing the guy won't help anything, especially as he did his job.

[Natapoc]

So the guy sent them to a specialist's office at a hospital and rather then try to see him, they gave up after a couple phone calls? I say its not entirely their fault but they should of at least tried to make an effort. Suing the guy won't help anything, especially as he did his job.

The doctor, an "Expert" seemed gave the impression that their concerns were silly. He only suggested the specialist after they specifically asked about those risks. They never should have had to ask.

The doctor should have insisted on a test for genetic conditions and, if he was not qualified, passed the test on to someone who was before agreeing to perform the procedure.

I sometimes wonder why we even have doctors when they have become more like order takers. They consistently misdiagnose, are highly overpaid, and take no responsibility for their actions or advice.

Doctors get paid if they are right or if they are wrong, if they can help you and if they can't. Where is their incentive to provide quality, professional care (rather than bare minimum so you don't get your licence revoked care)?

Forget the lawsuit. My judgement is that the doctor pays directly for the costs of the child's illness on the parents. Don't pay the lawyers and involve the legal system.

This doctor should just do the right thing and help the people he wronged by paying for the physical needs of the child that resulted from his unprofessional conduct and also seeing the child for free for as long as both he and the child live.

This is what Natapoc Ruled. See no need for an expensive judge and lawyers on both sides and wasted time

[The Corparation]

So the guy sent them to a specialist's office at a hospital and rather then try to see him, they gave up after a couple phone calls? I say its not entirely their fault but they should of at least tried to make an effort. Suing the guy won't help anything, especially as he did his job.

The doctor, an "Expert" seemed gave the impression that their concerns were silly. He only suggested the specialist after they specifically asked about those risks. They never should have had to ask.

The doctor should have insisted on a test for genetic conditions and, if he was not qualified, passed the test on to someone who was before agreeing to perform the procedure.

I sometimes wonder why we even have doctors when they have become more like order takers. They consistently misdiagnose, are highly overpaid, and take no responsibility for their actions or advice.

Doctors get paid if they are right or if they are wrong, if they can help you and if they can't. Where is their incentive to provide quality, professional care (rather than bare minimum so you don't get your licence revoked care)?

Forget the lawsuit. My judgement is that the doctor pays directly for the costs of the child's illness on the parents. Don't pay the lawyers and involve the legal system.

This doctor should just do the right thing and help the people he wronged by paying for the physical needs of the child that resulted from his unprofessional conduct and also seeing the child for free for as long as both he and the child live.

This is what Natapoc Ruled. See no need for an expensive judge and lawyers on both sides and wasted time

From what I read, its not so much that he dismissed them as silly, its that he didn't know what the risks were. He specializes in fertility treatments, not in the genetics that are involved in the passing down of a medical disorder. As for passing the tests off to another, that's exactly what he did. He refereed them a someone who would know the risks be able to give the tests and help them with the problem. They decided that since the phone number didn't go directly to his office but the front desk and that there call didn't go through that they could just give up and go through with the treatment. There only real case here could be he performed it without them having gone through with the other doctor he sent them too. But even for that he's hardly to blame for an issue outside his field of expertise. He tried sending them to someone in that field and they didn't follow through.

[The Black Forrest]

Who is responsible isn't really the matter of the suit.

The couple is after money and will settle out of court. The doctor and his insurance will be happy as it's a lost cause.

It happens in the US all the time. Trial by jury does have it's fault. You hold up a "gork" kid and the jury is looks to the hospital/doctor as evil and the reason for the problem. They will vote in favor of the couple so it better to settle out......

[Big Jim P]

He referred them to a genetic specialist. They refused to seek that qualified opinion. It's their own fault

/\ This. This couple are idiots.

And proof (on more than one level) that some people should not be allowed to reproduce.

[Genivaria]

He referred them to a genetic specialist. They refused to seek that qualified opinion. It's their own fault

This. Its the parents fault.
I also think this is the unanimous opinion of everyone.

[Desperate Measures]

There's a general air of stupidity in this entire affair.

I don't pick favorites.

Fine the doctor, but don't give the parents a settlement.

I think I agree with this.

Just because somebody should be punished doesn't mean somebody else should be rewarded.

[Hallistar]

A couple in Australia who underwent IVF are now suing their IVF doctor.

The father has a genetic condition. The couple asked the IVF doctor about the risks, and he, rather than investigate, handed the couple the number of a hospital and advised them to get in touch with a genetic counselor, in reference to fertility.

The couple called once. When they couldn't get through, they didn't try.

Their son was born with the condition (which he had a 50% chance of getting from his father), and suffered a massive stroke that caused severe brain damage a few days after birth. Keeden will never walk, never talk, and never be able to use the toilet.

The parents have sued the IVF specialist for wrongful birth, claiming that had they been appropriately informed of the risks, they would not have chosen to go ahead.

As a result of Keeden's condition, both parents have been unable to work at their previous level, and have had to significantly modify their home, at their own expense.

Now, I get that there's always risks of disability when kids are born. But this couple specifically told the IVF specialist, and asked about the risks. I think he did fail in his duty of care, and that the parents should be compensated. I know that they could have followed up more, but they could also have dumped their son in care. I think they need some compensation.

I'm not sure whose at fault, I guess they could've tried again to get to the genetic specialist, but I do agree that the ivf specialist couldve done more to screen out for genetic diseases like this. Hopefully genetic filtering procedures will be more emphasized in the future to ensure people are not born with such crippling conditions.

[New England and The Maritimes]

There's a general air of stupidity in this entire affair.

I don't pick favorites.

Fine the doctor, but don't give the parents a settlement.

I think I agree with this.

Just because somebody should be punished doesn't mean somebody else should be rewarded.

They're not really being rewarded, what with massive expenses related to caring for the kid.

[Conserative Morality]

He referred them to a genetic specialist. They refused to seek that qualified opinion. It's their own fault

Pretty much this. It's their fault, not the IVF specialist's.

[Blazedtown]

A couple in Australia who underwent IVF are now suing their IVF doctor.

The father has a genetic condition. The couple asked the IVF doctor about the risks, and he, rather than investigate, handed the couple the number of a hospital and advised them to get in touch with a genetic counselor, in reference to fertility.

The couple called once. When they couldn't get through, they didn't try.

Their son was born with the condition (which he had a 50% chance of getting from his father), and suffered a massive stroke that caused severe brain damage a few days after birth. Keeden will never walk, never talk, and never be able to use the toilet.

The parents have sued the IVF specialist for wrongful birth, claiming that had they been appropriately informed of the risks, they would not have chosen to go ahead.

As a result of Keeden's condition, both parents have been unable to work at their previous level, and have had to significantly modify their home, at their own expense.

Now, I get that there's always risks of disability when kids are born. But this couple specifically told the IVF specialist, and asked about the risks. I think he did fail in his duty of care, and that the parents should be compensated. I know that they could have followed up more, but they could also have dumped their son in care. I think they need some compensation.

Fine, I'll get the blender, you get the chips. Why do I always have to clean up after this kinda shit?

[Katganistan]

Did he say that?

I guess that's something we will find out. It certainly seems that he wasn't terribly interested in investigating the condition. But at this stage, all we really have are impressions.

I personally feel sorry for this couple. I also understand why they are suing. Without the money, the standard of care they could provide Keeden is limited at best.

I feel terrible for them as well, but their failure to follow up is not equal to the doctor being at fault -- and why should everyone else end up paying more for doctor bills because they're trying to make this doctor (and his insurance) pay?

[Big Jim P]

I guess that's something we will find out. It certainly seems that he wasn't terribly interested in investigating the condition. But at this stage, all we really have are impressions.

I personally feel sorry for this couple. I also understand why they are suing. Without the money, the standard of care they could provide Keeden is limited at best.

I feel terrible for them as well, but their failure to follow up is not equal to the doctor being at fault -- and why should everyone else end up paying more for doctor bills because they're trying to make this doctor (and his insurance) pay?

Because, the right to sue and get rich off of your own negligence and/or stupidity is one of the holiest rights of mankind.

[Vitaphone Racing]

So the guy sent them to a specialist's office at a hospital and rather then try to see him, they gave up after a couple phone calls? I say its not entirely their fault but they should of at least tried to make an effort. Suing the guy won't help anything, especially as he did his job.

The doctor, an "Expert" seemed gave the impression that their concerns were silly. He only suggested the specialist after they specifically asked about those risks. They never should have had to ask.

He was an expert in IVF and not genetics which is precisely the reason he recommended them to another doctor. Nor would he have been aware of the father's genetic condition unless he had of been told in the first place.

I do not see the impression that their concerns were silly either.

The doctor should have insisted on a test for genetic conditions and, if he was not qualified, passed the test on to someone who was before agreeing to perform the procedure.

Why should people who have IVF children have to pass a genetics test when other couples do not?

I sometimes wonder why we even have doctors when they have become more like order takers. They consistently misdiagnose, are highly overpaid, and take no responsibility for their actions or advice.

Doctors get paid if they are right or if they are wrong, if they can help you and if they can't. Where is their incentive to provide quality, professional care (rather than bare minimum so you don't get your licence revoked care)?

The fact that there is more than one doctor available to most people.
Maybe also the fact that doctors are regulated and complaints can be logged for follow up.

Forget the lawsuit. My judgement is that the doctor pays directly for the costs of the child's illness on the parents. Don't pay the lawyers and involve the legal system.

So it's the IVF doctor's fault that the child's parents wanted a baby when they knew they had a genetic conditon...

This doctor should just do the right thing and help the people he wronged by paying for the physical needs of the child that resulted from his unprofessional conduct and also seeing the child for free for as long as both he and the child live.

Unprofessional in what way? He admitted he knew nothing about genetics; rather than give faulty information he recommended them to an expert. That's pretty professional as he sure wasn't getting paid for another guy to tell them what was wrong.

This is what Natapoc Ruled. See no need for an expensive judge and lawyers on both sides and wasted time

Don't quit your day job...

[Galla-]

He referred them to a genetic specialist. They refused to seek that qualified opinion. It's their own fault

This.

[The Corparation]

I guess that's something we will find out. It certainly seems that he wasn't terribly interested in investigating the condition. But at this stage, all we really have are impressions.

I personally feel sorry for this couple. I also understand why they are suing. Without the money, the standard of care they could provide Keeden is limited at best.

I feel terrible for them as well, but their failure to follow up is not equal to the doctor being at fault -- and why should everyone else end up paying more for doctor bills because they're trying to make this doctor (and his insurance) pay?

That's noe thing more people need to realize. Doctors charge so much because they have to pay shitlaods of insurance. And they have to pay shitloads of insurance because so many people feel like its their right to sue a doctor because of their own negligence in seeking/getting treatment.

[New England and The Maritimes]

I feel terrible for them as well, but their failure to follow up is not equal to the doctor being at fault -- and why should everyone else end up paying more for doctor bills because they're trying to make this doctor (and his insurance) pay?

That's noe thing more people need to realize. Doctors charge so much because they have to pay shitlaods of insurance. And they have to pay shitloads of insurance because so many people feel like its their right to sue a doctor because of their own negligence in seeking/getting treatment.

Doctors charge so much because there's no reason for them not to. Virtually all health care is handled by HMOs in America, and the doctors don't have to worry about it if they just add a thousand bucks here or there to the bill. To most doctors a CAT Scan is like a printing press, and that's how they use it. They aren't blameless, but it's not useful to go after individual doctors when our current system is giving them the incentive for abuse to begin with.

[AiliailiA]

Some people in this thread seem to think an IVF doctor can genetically test a fertilized egg before implantation. But I'm pretty sure that isn't possible, because it would damage the cell to take any material from it for testing.

[Ridann]

From the article regard the refereance to the specialist.

It is alleged the note was given to the Wallers in the context of a discussion about fertility not genetics, and that the phone number was the main switchboard for the hospital rather than the counsellor's direct line.

When the phone went unanswered the Wallers did not call back, and it is alleged that Dr James did not mention the genetic counsellor again, and began the IVF process.

Seems like a lack of communication, not that the ignorance or apathy towards the risk was in anyway excusable.