Animal rights groups do more harm than good.

[Aquophia]

So I was watching a special on wildlife conservation and the topic was on a special type of african antelope that is near extinction. There are very few left in africa itself, but there are many being bred in Texas for the purpose of hunting.

This may seem like the complete opposite of conservationalism, but the antelope in this land are guranteed not to become extinct because they only let 10% of the bred antelope into the fields during hunting season. People pay a lot of money to hunt on the raches, so it would be bankrupting to the business to let overhunting drive the antelope to extinction.

In the meantime, there is a woman working for some peta-esque activist group that wants to shut this area down. So far, she has been able to lobby the court system to convince them to make laws that require that hunters have permits to hunt the antelope. These permits are near impossible to obtain. Since the laws have been passed, the population of the ranch's antelopes has gone down by half due to lack of funds.

Her reasons are that hunting is immoral and that the antelope belong in Africa, where they will clearly be much better off and much safer from extinction just like the lions rhinos are...oh wait.

This is just another one of the many examples of animal rights activists shooting themselves in the foot. Im not a hunter myself, but the hunters in the news story made far more logical points than the hysterical lady. The actions of her group are actually cutting down the population of the animal she is trying to save. How is that in anyway benefical to her cause?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-5 ... e-species/
Full story here.

[NERVUN]

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

[Good Old Money]

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

Agreed. Usually I don't agree with animal rights groups, but let's see some more specific examples.

[New Conglomerate]

If we didn't hunt deer or many other types of animals, they'd overpopulate and all die of sickness/starvation.

Somebody send these morons a book written by Malthus, stat.

[Tubbsalot]

Aside from what NERVUN said, I'm going to point out that conservationism is only useful when applied to the organism's natural habitat - that way, it supports the existing ecosystem. In terms of environmental health, it wouldn't matter if there were a million antelopes in Texas. Once the animal is gone from its natural habitat, the chances of recovery are vanishingly small.

[Tubbsalot]

If we didn't hunt deer or many other types of animals, they'd overpopulate and all die of sickness/starvation.

Somebody send these morons a book written by Malthus, stat.

That really doesn't apply to most hunted animals.

[Genivaria]

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

Agreed. Usually I don't agree with animal rights groups, but let's see some more specific examples.

If we didn't hunt deer or many other types of animals, they'd overpopulate and all die of sickness/starvation.

Somebody send these morons a book written by Malthus, stat.

Quickly Ned! Thin out their numbers!

[NERVUN]

If we didn't hunt deer or many other types of animals, they'd overpopulate and all die of sickness/starvation.

Somebody send these morons a book written by Malthus, stat.

That really doesn't apply to most hunted animals.

Not to mention the over-population happens because we've eliminated the predators that do hunt them, or introduced them into areas where there are no predators.

[Continentalia]

If we didn't hunt deer or many other types of animals, they'd overpopulate and all die of sickness/starvation.

Somebody send these morons a book written by Malthus, stat.

That's what wolves are for, see.

[New Conglomerate]

That really doesn't apply to most hunted animals.

Not to mention the over-population happens because we've eliminated the predators that do hunt them, or introduced them into areas where there are no predators.

In that case, we should work on that as well.

[Aquophia]

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

I suppose you could also look to peta's illegal tactics of breaking into labs and freeing animals, but I assumed we all knew about that one already.

[Good Old Money]

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

I suppose you could also look to peta's illegal tactics of breaking into labs and freeing animals, but I assumed we all knew about that one already.

I have not heard of specific cases, could you please point these out, if they exist? It would bolster your argument,

[Kirrig]

There are many animals that are protected in Australia but are severe pests in NZ. This actually applies elsewhere as well. Hunting animals is good.

On another note, it has been proposed that we domesticate kiwi to save them.

[Tubbsalot]

Not to mention the over-population happens because we've eliminated the predators that do hunt them, or introduced them into areas where there are no predators.

In that case, we should work on that as well.

Indeed. Of course, that generally faces resistance from farmers. Predators which have been hunted to death usually have it happen for a reason.

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

I suppose you could also look to peta's illegal tactics of breaking into labs and freeing animals, but I assumed we all knew about that one already.

I don't think you're getting the point.

I've seen a whole bunch of mouldy bread in my time. That doesn't mean all bread is mouldy.

[New Conglomerate]

In that case, we should work on that as well.

Indeed. Of course, that generally faces resistance from farmers. Predators which have been hunted to death usually have it happen for a reason.

You would think that barbed wire would have solved a lot of this.

[NERVUN]

So... you have one example and from that you extrapolate that all animal rights groups do more harm than good?

I suppose you could also look to peta's illegal tactics of breaking into labs and freeing animals, but I assumed we all knew about that one already.

*sighs* PETA is not the whole animal rights/conservation movement. ASPCA =/= PETA. Greenpeace =/= PETA. Hell, Ducks Unlimited is a conservation group and they certainly do not equal PETA.

That broad brush you're carrying around does more harm than good.

[Tubbsalot]

Indeed. Of course, that generally faces resistance from farmers. Predators which have been hunted to death usually have it happen for a reason.

You would think that barbed wire would have solved a lot of this.

Mostly, yeah, there are other ways to deal with it (which is why Britain's managing with the resurgence of the fox). It's just cheaper to kill them.

[NERVUN]

In that case, we should work on that as well.

Indeed. Of course, that generally faces resistance from farmers. Predators which have been hunted to death usually have it happen for a reason.

True, but usually not very good ones (Or realistic ones).

[Toxic]

So I was watching a special on wildlife conservation and the topic was on a special type of african antelope that is near extinction. There are very few left in africa itself, but there are many being bred in Texas for the purpose of hunting.

This may seem like the complete opposite of conservationalism, but the antelope in this land are guranteed not to become extinct because they only let 10% of the bred antelope into the fields during hunting season. People pay a lot of money to hunt on the raches, so it would be bankrupting to the business to let overhunting drive the antelope to extinction.

In the meantime, there is a woman working for some peta-esque activist group that wants to shut this area down. So far, she has been able to lobby the court system to convince them to make laws that require that hunters have permits to hunt the antelope. These permits are near impossible to obtain. Since the laws have been passed, the population of the ranch's antelopes has gone down by half due to lack of funds.

Her reasons are that hunting is immoral and that the antelope belong in Africa, where they will clearly be much better off and much safer from extinction just like the lions rhinos are...oh wait.

This is just another one of the many examples of animal rights activists shooting themselves in the foot. Im not a hunter myself, but the hunters in the news story made far more logical points than the hysterical lady. The actions of her group are actually cutting down the population of the animal she is trying to save. How is that in anyway benefical to her cause?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-5 ... e-species/
Full story here.

The thing about places like this that breed animals for hunting are a joke.. There is no sport in being force fed a kill...

[Farnhamia]

So I was watching a special on wildlife conservation and the topic was on a special type of african antelope that is near extinction. There are very few left in africa itself, but there are many being bred in Texas for the purpose of hunting.

This may seem like the complete opposite of conservationalism, but the antelope in this land are guranteed not to become extinct because they only let 10% of the bred antelope into the fields during hunting season. People pay a lot of money to hunt on the raches, so it would be bankrupting to the business to let overhunting drive the antelope to extinction.

In the meantime, there is a woman working for some peta-esque activist group that wants to shut this area down. So far, she has been able to lobby the court system to convince them to make laws that require that hunters have permits to hunt the antelope. These permits are near impossible to obtain. Since the laws have been passed, the population of the ranch's antelopes has gone down by half due to lack of funds.

Her reasons are that hunting is immoral and that the antelope belong in Africa, where they will clearly be much better off and much safer from extinction just like the lions rhinos are...oh wait.

This is just another one of the many examples of animal rights activists shooting themselves in the foot. Im not a hunter myself, but the hunters in the news story made far more logical points than the hysterical lady. The actions of her group are actually cutting down the population of the animal she is trying to save. How is that in anyway benefical to her cause?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-5 ... e-species/
Full story here.

The thing about places like this that breed animals for hunting are a joke.. There is no sport in being force fed a kill...

Someone's willing to pay for it, so they must think there is.

[New Conglomerate]

You would think that barbed wire would have solved a lot of this.

Mostly, yeah, there are other ways to deal with it (which is why Britain's managing with the resurgence of the fox). It's just cheaper to kill them.

Sure, but we really should learn to restrain ourselves to shooting the ones inside the fence only. People who are annoying enough to make up random reasons to shoot wolves that haven't even damaged their property should be ignored.

[Ethel mermania]

The ASPCA's does a lot of good, the WCF does a lot of good, AZA does a lot of good, Peta not so much.

off the top of my head, 3 outa 4 aint bad.

[1000 Cats]

Yes, PETA is insane. If you want to find someone who cares, and actually knows about ecosystem balance, biodiversity, etc., you talk to a subsistence hunter. PETA is a bunch of city kids that just want to pet the koala and can't believe death still happens.

The ASPCA's does a lot of good, the WCF does a lot of good, AZA does a lot of good, Peta not so much.

off the top of my head, 3 outa 4 aint bad.

Yes, those are good. They also don't get all up in people's grills, making the "wtf" news every month or two. They know what they're talking about, having more than New-Agers fresh out of their college BA.

[Aquophia]

Indeed. Of course, that generally faces resistance from farmers. Predators which have been hunted to death usually have it happen for a reason.

True, but usually not very good ones (Or realistic ones).

So killing predators that hunt your cattle (ie your source of income) is not a good or realistic reason? Thats why there are not many wolves in the states anymore. They would be bad for the food economy if there were too many of them. Fences generally don't stop wolves from hunting since they can either jump over them or dig under them.

The funny thing is the animal rights groups have called for them to be brought fro other countries into the US to be "returned to their natural habitat", but that has lead to history repeating itself and now they are being killed off.

[Tubbsalot]

So killing predators that hunt your cattle (ie your source of income) is not a good or realistic reason?

As we've already established, no, it generally isn't.