It's about time women are punished for false rape claims

[Neo Art]

[It probably does though. It's pretty easy to prove or disprove a rape charge.

How is it easy?

We live in a free-thinking society where nobody is going to judge you for being raped anymore so the stigma of immediately going to the police is removed. Even if the accused used a condom, DNA evidence WILL still be found!

1) that's a lie

2) DNA doesn't prove what you think it proves. Very, very very very VERY few defense arguments in a rape case argue "I didn't have sex with her". That's an argument that's nearly never made. The argument is almost always "she consented, and she can't prove she didn't"

[Terraliberty]

Perhaps the shoe should be on the other foot! I can't count the number of times I've been wasted and woken up the following morning next to someone I'd never have slept with sober. I knew what I was doing when I decided to drink as much as I did; I gave up my inhibitions and self control to alcohol and for that reason I would never claim to have been raped. Perhaps I should... maybe we all should! Let's see how those cases pan out because, unlike for women, I bet they get us nowhere!

[Terraliberty]

[It probably does though. It's pretty easy to prove or disprove a rape charge.

How is it easy?

We live in a free-thinking society where nobody is going to judge you for being raped anymore so the stigma of immediately going to the police is removed. Even if the accused used a condom, DNA evidence WILL still be found!

1) that's a lie

2) DNA doesn't prove what you think it proves. Very, very very very VERY few defense arguments in a rape case argue "I didn't have sex with her". That's an argument that's nearly never made. The argument is almost always "she consented, and she can't prove she didn't"

1) Which part's a lie?

2) Signs of a struggle will be used in conjunction with any other evidence.

3) read my last post.

[Czardas]

[It probably does though. It's pretty easy to prove or disprove a rape charge.

How is it easy?

We live in a free-thinking society where nobody is going to judge you for being raped anymore so the stigma of immediately going to the police is removed. Even if the accused used a condom, DNA evidence WILL still be found!

Exactly! Besides, rapists will probably feel contrite the day after and come forth to admit to the police that they did something very, very naughty. They'll serve only reduced sentences because they were really sorry and promised never to do it again, the victims won't suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder or anything like that because the court will award them each a puppy, and we'll all live in a happy friendly world of dancing unicorns who poop butterflies!

[Ryadn]

[It probably does though. It's pretty easy to prove or disprove a rape charge.

How is it easy?

We live in a free-thinking society where nobody is going to judge you for being raped anymore so the stigma of immediately going to the police is removed. Even if the accused used a condom, DNA evidence WILL still be found!

1) that's a lie

2) DNA doesn't prove what you think it proves. Very, very very very VERY few defense arguments in a rape case argue "I didn't have sex with her". That's an argument that's nearly never made. The argument is almost always "she consented, and she can't prove she didn't"

1) Which part's a lie?

2) Signs of a struggle will be used in conjunction with any other evidence.

3) read my last post.

We don't live in a free-thinking society where nobody is going to judge a woman for being raped. We SHOULD live in that society, but we don't. At all. If you continue to pretend that we do, I have to assume you have no experience with rape cases whatsoever.

Try this list on for size:

"She always says 'no', it's just a game."
"It was just rough sex. I have bruises, too."
"She wasn't unconscious when I started having sex with her."
"She was being a cocktease all night, she knew where it was going to lead."
"She wanted it too, she doesn't have any marks on her."

You've been watching too much CSI if you think DNA evidence condemns or absolves anyone. The majority of rape kits are never even processed.

[Terraliberty]

"She always says 'no', it's just a game."
"It was just rough sex. I have bruises, too."
"She wasn't unconscious when I started having sex with her."
"She was being a cocktease all night, she knew where it was going to lead."
"She wanted it too, she doesn't have any marks on her."

And what if all those words, apart perhaps from the third one, are true? I assume you'd like to see all innocent males locked up just to make sure the guilty ones are too. Each case has to be taken individually and it's our responsibility to make sure our justice systems are fair and true!

[Galloism]

"She always says 'no', it's just a game."
"It was just rough sex. I have bruises, too."
"She wasn't unconscious when I started having sex with her."
"She was being a cocktease all night, she knew where it was going to lead."
"She wanted it too, she doesn't have any marks on her."

And what if all those words, apart perhaps from the third one, are true? I assume you'd like to see all innocent males locked up just to make sure the guilty ones are too. Each case has to be taken individually and it's our responsibility to make sure our justice systems are fair and true!

I was going to say #3 and #4.

#1 possibly. It depends if they have previously discussed the use of a safeword.

[Tech-gnosis]

We live in a free-thinking society where nobody is going to judge you for being raped anymore so the stigma of immediately going to the police is removed.

Do you have a source that shows there is no stigma attached to rape victims, including male victims, and that raper victims never feel ashamed

Even if the accused used a condom, DNA evidence WILL still be found!

The guy says the sex was consensual.

[Tech-gnosis]

And what if all those words, apart perhaps from the third one, are true? I assume you'd like to see all innocent males locked up just to make sure the guilty ones are too. Each case has to be taken individually and it's our responsibility to make sure our justice systems are fair and true!

So basically finding out whether or not a rape occurred is not easy.

[Bottle]

Perhaps the shoe should be on the other foot! I can't count the number of times I've been wasted and woken up the following morning next to someone I'd never have slept with sober. I knew what I was doing when I decided to drink as much as I did; I gave up my inhibitions and self control to alcohol and for that reason I would never claim to have been raped. Perhaps I should... maybe we all should! Let's see how those cases pan out because, unlike for women, I bet they get us nowhere!

If you think it's so much fun, and such an easy-happy-go-lucky time, to report a rape, then go ahead. Try it some time.

Try having strangers take a rape kit on you. It's a real blast having your body cavities swabbed, I tell you what.

Try facing everyone you know, and telling them you were assaulted. Or keeping the secret, until you get "outed" by a detective who calls your home while you aren't there.

Try dealing with the cops, who automatically assume you are lying. Try proving that you DIDN'T consent (as if proving a negative is really ever going to be possible in most cases). Try being questioned about the intimate details of what happened. Did he stick a finger in you? Did he make you suck him? Did he put it in your anus? How were you positioned? What were both of you wearing? Why can't you remember those details...are you making this up? Are you sure that's what really happened? Maybe you'd had a bit to drink. Maybe you aren't remembering right.

Try dealing with all the people who will insist that it wasn't rape, and even if it was you totally deserved it because look how you were dressed, look what you were doing, look at what you had to drink, look at where you were, look at who you've fucked in the past, look at how ugly and fat you are, look at how rich the accused is, look at how much better than you he is, why would anybody rape you, and why would HE have to rape anybody, and look we found your ex who says you're a total liar anyway, and look the accused was an Eagle Scout anyhow, and it's pretty clear you just got sloppy and then regretted it.

Try dealing with the fact that even if you really were raped, and even if you were one of the 15% of victims who DO have the courage to endure all that, your rapist is almost certainly never even going to COURT. Unless you are one of the lucky 1% of victims, your rapist will be out on the street. And if you're like most victims, your rapist will be somebody you know. A family member, a former friend, a coworker, or an intimate partner. Try dealing with the fact that, odds are, you're going to see this person again. They know what they did to you, you know what they did to you, and you both know nothing is going to be done about it.

Try dealing with the fact that a rape allegation, if made official, will follow you. If, like most rape victims, you were attacked by somebody you knew, try dealing with how they tell everyone else at work their "side" of the story (which is that you were a slut who deserved it). Try dealing with it if your school administration, or your boss, or your constituents find out.

Try being viewed by many people as dirty, damaged, ruined. Even the best-intentioned people will walk on egg shells around you once they know. Even your well-meaning friends will be different around you. Try dating...when are you going to tell them about the assault? What if they find out from somebody else? Will you just never tell? Will they still want to sleep with you once you do? Will they be able to handle it, or will it bum them out so much they leave?

Go on. Report a rape. It's an absolute blast.

[Tech-gnosis]

*snip*

Plus given that TerraLiberty is male all these would likely be exacerbated.

[Hiddenrun]

The idea that adult women who get blasted cannot give consent to sex despite their intention to get drunk and fuck(ie, every drunk-out-of-her-mind woman at the clubs) is taking things waaay too far. Yes dear, you may regret your actions in the morning, but don't pretend you didn't act at all.

That's not what he said, at all.

He said: "who get blasted cannot give consent to sex despite their intention to get drunk and fuck(ie, every drunk-out-of-her-mind woman at the clubs)"

In other words - a woman who goes out with the intention to get lathered and then laid - according to strict interpretation of what Hiddenrun wrote - has automatically given PRE-consent to ANY sexual act.

Just because I want to get laid - doesn't mean I want YOU to do it. Even if that was my WHOLE purpose in going out, you don't get to fuck me without my explicit and specific consent. That IS rape.

How about you actually read what I wrote?

Women who are drunk CANNOT GIVE CONSENT TO SEX. That is the law. A woman who wants to go out and get fucked, who gets drunk, CANNOT GIVE CONSENT. Therefore if you fuck you, it is rape. Because she is drunk. No matter how much she wanted it before she got drunk, no matter how much she wants it while she's drunk.

That is what I said. I pointed that out to highlight why certain definitions of rape are fucking stupid.

I did not say fucking a drunk woman is never rape. Nice try though.

[Hiddenrun]

That's an amazing level of cognitive dissonance.

Your entire post? You bet it is.

Of course he didn't make the leap of saying that "being drunk" means "she invited sex with any one particular person".

That's the point.

According to Hiddenrun, if you went out to get drunk and laid - you CAN'T claim rape. No matter WHO does it.

Actually read what he wrote.

Why, so he can reinterpret them in all sorts of ridiculous ways, the way you're doing?

This is beyond pathetic.

[Hiddenrun]

No he's saying that it becomes dangerouse when a women can claim she was raiped by someone, even if she was just buzzed, or not drunk at all. Its just a dangerouse road to go down on, if I was a young women i could make expicit threats to others on the grounds that if they didn't id drink tequla untill i pass out, and then file a police report claiming to have been raiped if my demands were not met. Its like in nazi germany or the soviet union, people can make fake reports of doing something illegal, and since in the u.s. we view any type of sexual crime as bad a mruder, they would certainly be jailed, or lose there job and be put on the sex offenders list, think about it.

So you're saying that it's impossible to rape a drunk person? 'cause this is what the initial claim was... that women went out to get drunk and laid and would get upset when these happened without their consent.

I don't think that everyone who has been drinking is incapable of consenting to sex. Everyone who drinks to the point where they're passed out is incapable of consenting and often even those who are just a little drunk become easier to rape because they put themselves into situations where this is more likely to occur and may not be able to get themselves out of that situation.

Dakini, if you actually have me on ignore, then you need to ignore me in fact. I am sick of you lying about what I said, and then posting your lies over and over in my thread, without ever addressing the fact I am bringing up here which is, YOU ARE A LIAR.

I think it's a ridiculous load of shit for you to pretend to ignore me, while jumping all over my thread, talking about me.

[Dempublicents1]

Women who are drunk CANNOT GIVE CONSENT TO SEX. That is the law.

Neither can men who are drunk. In fact, they can't legally consent to anything, really. Consent requires the ability to understand what one is doing. There is a level of drunkenness that takes you beyond that ability.

A woman who wants to go out and get fucked, who gets drunk, CANNOT GIVE CONSENT.

Neither can a man who does the same. You keep trying to make this all about a woman doing it. Men who go out to get drunk and hook up cannot legally consent either. Hence the reason that someone who is sober enough to realize that the other person is drunk out of their mind shouldn't fuck that person.

[The Norse Hordes]

There is a really simple solution to all this 'Drunk wimminz cant give teh consent!111!' crying....

Dont take advantage of drunk chicks.

Honestly, sex with drunk people isnt even that good anyway.

[Grave_n_idle]

That's an amazing level of cognitive dissonance.

Your entire post? You bet it is.

Of course he didn't make the leap of saying that "being drunk" means "she invited sex with any one particular person".

That's the point.

According to Hiddenrun, if you went out to get drunk and laid - you CAN'T claim rape. No matter WHO does it.

Actually read what he wrote.

Why, so he can reinterpret them in all sorts of ridiculous ways, the way you're doing?

This is beyond pathetic.

On this we agree. Your revisionism is weak.

[Trippoli]

they are two very different crimes.

Well in both cases, someone gets fucked against their will.

Of course society has sympathy for victims of real rape, but not much sympathy for those falsely accused of committing it.

no

just

no.

yes,

If that man is innocent, but sent to prison for several years, his life is down the toilet. He isn't going to find a job, he will never settle down with a family. His whole life fucked up, he won't be able to pursue his dreams.

He will be scarred just like a woman raped, for life.

[Dempublicents1]

they are two very different crimes.

Well in both cases, someone gets fucked against their will.

Of course society has sympathy for victims of real rape, but not much sympathy for those falsely accused of committing it.

no

just

no.

yes,

If that man is innocent, but sent to prison for several years,

This is overwhelmingly unlikely to be the outcome of a false charge of rape.

[Smunkeeville]

yes,

If that man is innocent, but sent to prison for several years, his life is down the toilet. He isn't going to find a job, he will never settle down with a family. His whole life fucked up, he won't be able to pursue his dreams.

He will be scarred just like a woman raped, for life.

no.

Can I ask you a question?

Just exactly what the fuck is wrong with you?

Will an innocent person going to jail affect them? Sure.

Will it effect them in the same way a woman who was attacked is affected? No.

[Trippoli]

yes,

If that man is innocent, but sent to prison for several years, his life is down the toilet. He isn't going to find a job, he will never settle down with a family. His whole life fucked up, he won't be able to pursue his dreams.

He will be scarred just like a woman raped, for life.

no.

Can I ask you a question?

Just exactly what the fuck is wrong with you?

Will an innocent person going to jail affect them? Sure.

Will it effect them in the same way a woman who was attacked is affected? No.

Oh fuck, this again.

I find raping a women terrible, yes.

But you people ALWAYS seem to side with the woman, if the guy was guilty or not.

MY aunt was molested by her step-dad, she is bright as a bumble bee. HOWEVER, if a guy is found guilty, even if he didn't do it, he is fucked up the ass for life.

[Grave_n_idle]

yes,

If that man is innocent, but sent to prison for several years, his life is down the toilet. He isn't going to find a job, he will never settle down with a family. His whole life fucked up, he won't be able to pursue his dreams.

He will be scarred just like a woman raped, for life.

You are seriously comparing how others might judge you... with how it feels to have been sexually violated?

[The Alma Mater]

yes,

If that man is innocent, but sent to prison for several years, his life is down the toilet. He isn't going to find a job, he will never settle down with a family. His whole life fucked up, he won't be able to pursue his dreams.

He will be scarred just like a woman raped, for life.

You are seriously comparing how others might judge you... with how it feels to have been sexually violated?

Why wouldn't he ? That being raped would be far more traumatic for you doesn't mean everyone feels the same way. Some people might well find the smut of always being viewed (or at least thinking they are always being viewed) with "they say he was innocent, but where there is smoke, there is fire" far worse.

[Louis Van Boxel Woolf]

Community Service for a period of 500 hours, if it persits then go to jail for a couple of months, or maybe a Psychriatrist (might have a attention seeking disorder).

[Geniasis]

You are seriously comparing how others might judge you... with how it feels to have been sexually violated?

It's not at all on the same level, but I do feel that some posters are trivializing it. It may not nearly be as traumatic as violation, but it's also not nothing.