It's about time women are punished for false rape claims

[Mortshnefran]

Would you rather someone accused you of rape, or that they raped you?

I'd get over a rape a lot faster than I'd get over people in my community and family believing that I was a rapist.

tell anyone that after you've been raped

[Ashmoria]

The lack of practical limitations to the definition of 'rape' is a problem as well. Just because you spent the night binge drinking and fucking some dude you later wake up to see is fugly as all fuck, it doesn't mean you need to erase your shame by claiming it was rape.

The idea that adult women who get blasted cannot give consent to sex despite their intention to get drunk and fuck(ie, every drunk-out-of-her-mind woman at the clubs) is taking things waaay too far. Yes dear, you may regret your actions in the morning, but don't pretend you didn't act at all.

women are scary, arent they.

[Grave_n_idle]

The lack of practical limitations to the definition of 'rape' is a problem as well. Just because you spent the night binge drinking and fucking some dude you later wake up to see is fugly as all fuck, it doesn't mean you need to erase your shame by claiming it was rape.

The idea that adult women who get blasted cannot give consent to sex despite their intention to get drunk and fuck(ie, every drunk-out-of-her-mind woman at the clubs) is taking things waaay too far. Yes dear, you may regret your actions in the morning, but don't pretend you didn't act at all.

Okay. You're not worth talking to.

Anyone who makes claims that every drunk woman can't have really been raped, is not worth talking to.




Or pissing on.

[Hiddenrun]

But, what's the difference? A man accused of rape can have his name cleared. A woman actually raped - stays raped.

Oh please. Even when a man is found not-guilty of a rape, people all over the place have no trouble believing he was guilty anyway. The label of rapist doesn't go away so easily.

[JuNii]

filing a false rape claim is illegal.

however, there is the fact that the reputation of the accused is tarnished. perhaps a mandatory public apology as well as payment for legal fees?

infact, that should be tacked on for any false accusation...

[Hiddenrun]

So, given the choice of being raped, or being accused of it - you would choose to be the victim of the violent sexual attack?

I have to ask... because you didn't really answer.

Oh now it has to be violent?

I thought rape could include saying 'no' during the middle of consensual sex?

Stop it! Stop sucking my cock, you're raping me!

[Hiddenrun]

Okay. You're not worth talking to.

Anyone who makes claims that every drunk woman can't have really been raped, is not worth talking to.




Or pissing on.

No, I said that just because you are drunk, it isn't automatically rape just because you decide it is the morning after.

[JuNii]

But, what's the difference? A man accused of rape can have his name cleared. A woman actually raped - stays raped.

but would a woman who gave a false rape report* actually be raped?

*note: false report. not "mistaken identity" or rapist found not guilty.

[Mortshnefran]

The lack of practical limitations to the definition of 'rape' is a problem as well. Just because you spent the night binge drinking and fucking some dude you later wake up to see is fugly as all fuck, it doesn't mean you need to erase your shame by claiming it was rape.

The idea that adult women who get blasted cannot give consent to sex despite their intention to get drunk and fuck(ie, every drunk-out-of-her-mind woman at the clubs) is taking things waaay too far. Yes dear, you may regret your actions in the morning, but don't pretend you didn't act at all.

you just want date rape to be legal dont you?

[Hiddenrun]

filing a false rape claim is illegal.

however, there is the fact that the reputation of the accused is tarnished. perhaps a mandatory public apology as well as payment for legal fees?

infact, that should be tacked on for any false accusation...

I think the public apology angle would be really important to help clear the man's name in the community, with his employer, and so on.

Then again, if the case was that the man actually did have sex with the woman and she just claimed rape later, would the apology potentially cause more problems? Say the man was cheating (which is shitty, but still better than rape), or having sex with someone his community thought he ought not to be having relations with? I'd refrain from making the apology mandatory, but rather available upon request.

Though on request, it might be nice to make the bitch take out a full page ad in the paper telling people she lied.

[Hiddenrun]

you just want date rape to be legal dont you?

No, I just don't want women to have the ability to ruin a man's life just because they feel guilt about fucking that man.

[Hiddenrun]

But, what's the difference? A man accused of rape can have his name cleared. A woman actually raped - stays raped.

but would a woman who gave a false rape report* actually be raped?

*note: false report. not "mistaken identity" or rapist found not guilty.

careful, he might find you worthy of talking to, which apparently also means worthy of pissing on.

[Grave_n_idle]

But, what's the difference? A man accused of rape can have his name cleared. A woman actually raped - stays raped.

but would a woman who gave a false rape report* actually be raped?

*note: false report. not "mistaken identity" or rapist found not guilty.

Assuming the claim is false as in 'yeah, I made that up'. Then, obviously - no.

But if I'm comparing the relative severity of a rape accusation, or a rape, I don't think that's a close call.

[Hiddenrun]

Assuming the claim is false as in 'yeah, I made that up'. Then, obviously - no.

But if I'm comparing the relative severity of a rape accusation, or a rape, I don't think that's a close call.

Except we were never discussing a real rape versus a false accusation of rape. You claimed a false accusation would cause relatively minor harm. As opposed to what? Not crying rape? The issue isn't rape, it's non-rape. False rape. Bullshit made up stories about rape to either harm a man or get some sort of victim's compensation.

[Mortshnefran]

you sound like a misogynist, do you really think false rape claims are epidemic or something, i would have to guess that if you looked into you would find it is relatively rare. and when it does happen the system is set to cope with it, but you rant on like there are these hoards of evil woman who are just waiting for their chance to claim rape on every man they have sex with.

[Dakini]

filing a false rape claim is illegal.

however, there is the fact that the reputation of the accused is tarnished. perhaps a mandatory public apology as well as payment for legal fees?

infact, that should be tacked on for any false accusation...

How do you determine whether it's a false accusation? The accused being found "not guilty" doesn't mean that he a) didn't commit the rape (a crime which often comes down to a "he said/she said" issue, in which case, why should the woman have to apologize or pay legal fees?) or b) that she wasn't raped. Not all rape victims necessarily point to an accused, sometimes other evidence found by the police does this. Should the woman be charged with a false claim if the police gather evidence that indicates she was raped by Mr X if Mr X is found not guilty?

I can only see this being useful if she later admits that the claim was invented. Otherwise it just punished rape victims. Rape is notoriously poorly reported as it is, we don't need another reason for victims to keep quiet.

[Hiddenrun]

you sound like a misogynist, do you really think false rape claims are epidemic or something, i would have to guess that if you looked into you would find it is relatively rare. and when it does happen the system is set to cope with it, but you rant on like there are these hoards of evil woman who are just waiting for their chance to claim rape on every man they have sex with.

Right. I must be a misogynist. That's the only reason anyone would want women who make false rape claims to be punished.

Rare?
Rare?
Rare?

Rare?

A study of rape allegations in Indiana over a nine-year period revealed that over 40% were shown to be false — not merely unproven. According to the author, “These false allegations appear to serve three major functions for the complainants: providing an alibi, seeking revenge, and obtaining sympathy and attention. False rape allegations are not the consequence of a gender-linked aberration, as frequently claimed, but reflect impulsive and desperate efforts to cope with personal and social stress situations.” ( Kanin EJ. Arch Sex Behav. 1994 Feb;23(1):81-92 False rape allegations. )

In 1985, a study of 556 rape allegations found that 27% accusers recanted when faced with a polygraph (which can be ordered in the military), and independent evaluation showed a false accusation rate of 60%. (McDowell, Charles P., Ph.D. “False Allegations.” Forensic Science Digest, (publication of the U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations), Vol. 11, No. 4 (December 1985), p. 64.)

A major problem is that the names of so called rapists are published before a single piece of evidence has been presented to establish their guilt. Considering the repercussions of being labeled a rapist, the accused should have their names shielded until the matter is settled.

[Intangelon]

But, what's the difference? A man accused of rape can have his name cleared. A woman actually raped - stays raped.

Oh please. Even when a man is found not-guilty of a rape, people all over the place have no trouble believing he was guilty anyway. The label of rapist doesn't go away so easily.

I cannot believe you're comparing that to having actually been raped. You're playing your standard frat-rat insensitive prick routine a little too well tonight.

Tell me, do you know anyone who has been raped? Genuinely, I mean? Male or female, doesn't really matter. I feel very sorry for you if you do know someone who's been so assaulted and can spew that nonsense.

[Hiddenrun]

How do you determine whether it's a false accusation? The accused being found "not guilty" doesn't mean that he a) didn't commit the rape (a crime which often comes down to a "he said/she said" issue, in which case, why should the woman have to apologize or pay legal fees?) or b) that she wasn't raped. Not all rape victims necessarily point to an accused, sometimes other evidence found by the police does this. Should the woman be charged with a false claim if the police gather evidence that indicates she was raped by Mr X if Mr X is found not guilty?

I can only see this being useful if she later admits that the claim was invented. Otherwise it just punished rape victims. Rape is notoriously poorly reported as it is, we don't need another reason for victims to keep quiet.

We're not talking about victims, we're talking about the perpetrators of a crime. Women who lie about being raped.

[JuNii]

filing a false rape claim is illegal.

however, there is the fact that the reputation of the accused is tarnished. perhaps a mandatory public apology as well as payment for legal fees?

infact, that should be tacked on for any false accusation...

I think the public apology angle would be really important to help clear the man's name in the community, with his employer, and so on.

Then again, if the case was that the man actually did have sex with the woman and she just claimed rape later, would the apology potentially cause more problems? Say the man was cheating (which is shitty, but still better than rape), or having sex with someone his community thought he ought not to be having relations with? I'd refrain from making the apology mandatory, but rather available upon request.

Though on request, it might be nice to make the bitch take out a full page ad in the paper telling people she lied.

I'm no expert, but I believe consentual sex leaves different marks on the body than forced rape. which is why getting checked out ASAP is rather important.

[Hiddenrun]

I cannot believe you're comparing that to having actually been raped. You're playing your standard frat-rat insensitive prick routine a little too well tonight.

Tell me, do you know anyone who has been raped? Genuinely, I mean? Male or female, doesn't really matter. I feel very sorry for you if you do know someone who's been so assaulted and can spew that nonsense.

And I hope you've never met anyone who had to suffer the consequences of making a bad decision and sleeping with the wrong kind of person. Go ahead and tell someone who has had their career or marriage ruined by a false claim of rape that it's really not a big deal.

[Intangelon]

Assuming the claim is false as in 'yeah, I made that up'. Then, obviously - no.

But if I'm comparing the relative severity of a rape accusation, or a rape, I don't think that's a close call.

Except we were never discussing a real rape versus a false accusation of rape. You claimed a false accusation would cause relatively minor harm. As opposed to what? Not crying rape? The issue isn't rape, it's non-rape. False rape. Bullshit made up stories about rape to either harm a man or get some sort of victim's compensation.

No, I'm sorry -- the issue is you trying to be belligerently controversial in your faux-manly style. If you were genuinely concerned about the issue, you'd not use such patently inflammatory language to make your points and respond to some of the suggestions. Instead, you're bringing up the tired and worn-out "drunk" or "dick-tease" arguments. I suspect next we'll see the "she was askin' for it" defense.

[Ryadn]

they are two very different crimes.

Well in both cases, someone gets fucked against their will.

Uh...no. One's an actual assault. Come on.

Unless the woman is actually seriously injured during the assault, you cannot claim that rape is so incredibly worse than what happens to someone who is falsely accused of rape. Men have lost their jobs, their livelihoods, their families, their standing in the community because of false allegations. You honestly think that rape is so much worse than that?

Yes, I do--but then, I endorse the radical notion that women are people.

[Hiddenrun]

I'm no expert, but I believe consentual sex leaves different marks on the body than forced rape. which is why getting checked out ASAP is rather important.

Ah but you're falling into the trap of believing all rape must inherently be physically violent. If you fuck a woman who is passed out, it's rape. You may not harm her at all, but it's rape, right? And not all women necessarily fight back, but it's been made clear that if she says 'no' it's still rape, even if there is no violence. Then again, some people like having consensual sex that leaves all sorts of horrid marks.

Physical evidence isn't enough.

[Intangelon]

filing a false rape claim is illegal.

however, there is the fact that the reputation of the accused is tarnished. perhaps a mandatory public apology as well as payment for legal fees?

infact, that should be tacked on for any false accusation...

How do you determine whether it's a false accusation? The accused being found "not guilty" doesn't mean that he a) didn't commit the rape (a crime which often comes down to a "he said/she said" issue, in which case, why should the woman have to apologize or pay legal fees?) or b) that she wasn't raped. Not all rape victims necessarily point to an accused, sometimes other evidence found by the police does this. Should the woman be charged with a false claim if the police gather evidence that indicates she was raped by Mr X if Mr X is found not guilty?

I can only see this being useful if she later admits that the claim was invented. Otherwise it just punished rape victims. Rape is notoriously poorly reported as it is, we don't need another reason for victims to keep quiet.

For the record, I've said that fees should be paid if the allegation is indeed false. Being acquitted doesn't mean the allegations were false, as you've said. I'm talking about when a "victim" owns up to making up the charges outright.