God died in Auschwitz

[Galloism]

Ok, I threw in a bit of literary license.

Essentially, though, it's how it went, biblically, at any rate. If you are inclined to believe such things, of course.

not really it kinda went like this

God made a perfect paradise and a paradise on Earth
Lucifer rebelled
God sent them to Hell

Actually, Lucifer is not spoken of as being sent to hell until Revelation, where it speaks of him being thrown into the Abyss. Before that, still in Revelation, he is cast out of Heaven into the vicinity of the Earth.

In fact, in Job, he still walks into heaven and stands before "the person of God", which indicates he still had full access to heaven many centuries later.

Lucifer however had "a trick up his sleeve"
He screwed up God's still perfect creation on Earth
In so doing He caused us to commit sin

And question/defy God's sovereignty, which is what the whole theme of the Bible is about. Mankind challenged God's right to rule. They, nor Satan, challenged his power to do so, but his right to do so.

God banishes us from the Paradise
Lucifer and his Demons still plauge us today

Fix the earlier parts, and this part will be fine.

[Vazdania]

God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union. He is fully man and fully God. He is spirit made flesh but remaining spirit. He is uncontainable yet was carried to term inside the womb of the blessed Mother Mary.

So god is a giant list of metaphysical contradictions and logically impossible self-refuting paradoxes?

No, God is not a Paradox nor is he any Metaphysical contradiction

[Galloism]

Yeah, see, that would make sense. That would fit with the statement that God died in Auschwitz.

But what's painful is that religious people still think it's god who wrought this upon ourselves (???).

it was kinda lucifers fault....just FYI

Yes, no, sort of... well, maybe.

The greatest burden, to me, is in Adam. While it speaks of Eve being deceived, Adam was not. He chose to disobey and challenge God's sovereignty. He could have, even after Eve had sinned, not sinned, and maintained his integrity and eternal life.

Where Lucifer fits in that heiarchy... not sure. I'll think on it.

[Vazdania]

not really it kinda went like this

God made a perfect paradise and a paradise on Earth
Lucifer rebelled
God sent them to Hell

Actually, Lucifer is not spoken of as being sent to hell until Revelation, where it speaks of him being thrown into the Abyss. Before that, still in Revelation, he is cast out of Heaven into the vicinity of the Earth.
Revalation explains much before the happenings of Genesis
In fact, in Job, he still walks into heaven and stands before "the person of God", which indicates he still had full access to heaven many centuries later.

Lucifer however had "a trick up his sleeve"
He screwed up God's still perfect creation on Earth
In so doing He caused us to commit sin

And question/defy God's sovereignty, which is what the whole theme of the Bible is about. Mankind challenged God's right to rule. They, nor Satan, challenged his power to do so, but his right to do so.
No it doesnt?

God banishes us from the Paradise
Lucifer and his Demons still plauge us today

Fix the earlier parts, and this part will be fine.

1.) Revalation explains much of what happens before Genesis
2.) no it doesnt?

[Galloism]

Always humorous to me...

If one believes in the Bible, one has to draw this funny conclusion about most religious people.

1) God creates paradise, which he rules.
2) Humans decide they don't want to live by his rules, say "Fuck you, God. We're going by our own rules."
3) God says "Okay, we'll try it your way."
4) Man fucks up.
5) Man blames God, says "Why did you do this to us????"
6) God says... "WTF???"

Yeah, see, that would make sense. That would fit with the statement that God died in Auschwitz.

But what's painful is that religious people still think it's god who wrought this upon ourselves (???).

Yes.

Oddly, their own Bible says, "with evil things, God cannot be tried, nor does he himself try anyone."

Problem is, most (and I mean grand fucking majority) have no idea what their Bible says at all.

[Norstal]

Yeah, see, that would make sense. That would fit with the statement that God died in Auschwitz.

But what's painful is that religious people still think it's god who wrought this upon ourselves (???).

it was kinda lucifers fault....just FYI

Yes, keep blaming this apparition that's only mentioned in your bible, but never shown in the scripture itself.

I mean, at least in other religions the antagonist is apparent.

[Vazdania]

it was kinda lucifers fault....just FYI

Yes, keep blaming this apparition that's only mentioned in your bible, but never shown in the scripture itself.

I mean, at least in other religions the antagonist is apparent.

excuse me?
The serpent was a creature made by God but used by Satan (John 8:44 John 3:18 Rev 12:9 20:2)

[Galloism]

Actually, Lucifer is not spoken of as being sent to hell until Revelation, where it speaks of him being thrown into the Abyss. Before that, still in Revelation, he is cast out of Heaven into the vicinity of the Earth.
Revalation explains much before the happenings of Genesis
In fact, in Job, he still walks into heaven and stands before "the person of God", which indicates he still had full access to heaven many centuries later.



And question/defy God's sovereignty, which is what the whole theme of the Bible is about. Mankind challenged God's right to rule. They, nor Satan, challenged his power to do so, but his right to do so.
No it doesnt?



Fix the earlier parts, and this part will be fine.

1.) Revalation explains much of what happens before Genesis
2.) no it doesnt?

1) I'll Address this first, where Lucifer is cast to earth is in Revelation Chapter 12:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/rev012.htm

After being cast to Earth, the Dragon goes to war against those with the teachings of Jesus Christ. The absolute earliest that this would have been able to occur is sometime after Jesus' teaching began (29 CE, by common belief).

Abyssing does not occur until chapter 20...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=KJV

After Satan's abyssed, the first resurrection of the dead occurs. In addition, Satan was only to be abyssed for 1,000 years.

2) Defying someone's authority is challenging said authority. It's really not anymore straightforward than that.

[Mavorpen]

Yes, keep blaming this apparition that's only mentioned in your bible, but never shown in the scripture itself.

I mean, at least in other religions the antagonist is apparent.

excuse me?
The serpent was a creature made by God but used by Satan (John 8:44 John 3:18 Rev 12:9 20:2)

He didn't say Satan wasn't in the bible...?

[Vazdania]

1.) Revalation explains much of what happens before Genesis
2.) no it doesnt?

1) I'll Address this first, where Lucifer is cast to earth is in Revelation Chapter 12:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/rev012.htm

After being cast to Earth, the Dragon goes to war against those with the teachings of Jesus Christ. The absolute earliest that this would have been able to occur is sometime after Jesus' teaching began (29 CE, by common belief).

Abyssing does not occur until chapter 20...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=KJV

After Satan's abyssed, the first resurrection of the dead occurs. In addition, Satan was only to be abyssed for 1,000 years.

2) Defying someone's authority is challenging said authority. It's really not anymore straightforward than that.

1.) "abyssing" (I quite like this expression and shall use it from now on) and being sent to Earth are two seperate things
2.) It was not humainity but rather satan who challeneged Gods authority to rule

[Galloism]

1) I'll Address this first, where Lucifer is cast to earth is in Revelation Chapter 12:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/rev012.htm

After being cast to Earth, the Dragon goes to war against those with the teachings of Jesus Christ. The absolute earliest that this would have been able to occur is sometime after Jesus' teaching began (29 CE, by common belief).

Abyssing does not occur until chapter 20...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=KJV

After Satan's abyssed, the first resurrection of the dead occurs. In addition, Satan was only to be abyssed for 1,000 years.

2) Defying someone's authority is challenging said authority. It's really not anymore straightforward than that.

1.) "abyssing" (I quite like this expression and shall use it from now on) and being sent to Earth are two seperate things

It is a lovely word.

Yes, they are two separate things.

The confining to earth occurs first.

In addition, while abyssed, Satan is not permitted any actions on earth...

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

So, either you believe Satan has been abyssed and has no influence, or you believe he's free and has influence.

It's really one or the other. It's only a question of timing, really.

2.) It was not humainity but rather satan who challeneged Gods authority to rule

He did so first. Humanity is complicit in that action.

[Vazdania]

1.) "abyssing" (I quite like this expression and shall use it from now on) and being sent to Earth are two seperate things

It is a lovely word.

Yes, they are two separate things.

The confining to earth occurs first.

In addition, while abyssed, Satan is not permitted any actions on earth...

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

So, either you believe Satan has been abyssed and has no influence, or you believe he's free and has influence.

It's really one or the other. It's only a question of timing, really.

2.) It was not humainity but rather satan who challeneged Gods authority to rule

He did so first. Humanity is complicit in that action.

1.) Earth bound as of now, The abyssing occurs as a figurative or literal going on of what is to occur.

[Galloism]

It is a lovely word.

Yes, they are two separate things.

The confining to earth occurs first.

In addition, while abyssed, Satan is not permitted any actions on earth...



So, either you believe Satan has been abyssed and has no influence, or you believe he's free and has influence.

It's really one or the other. It's only a question of timing, really.



He did so first. Humanity is complicit in that action.

1.) Earth bound as of now, The abyssing occurs as a figurative or literal going on of what is to occur.

Correct, he is earth-bound as of now, biblically speaking.

However, the earliest that could have possibly occurred is 29 CE. It is my personal opinion that it was much later, but that would be hard for me to prove without significant research that I'm to lazy to do at the moment.

[Vazdania]

1.) Earth bound as of now, The abyssing occurs as a figurative or literal going on of what is to occur.

Correct, he is earth-bound as of now, biblically speaking.

However, the earliest that could have possibly occurred is 29 CE. It is my personal opinion that it was much later, but that would be hard for me to prove without significant research that I'm to lazy to do at the moment.

why?

[Galloism]

Correct, he is earth-bound as of now, biblically speaking.

However, the earliest that could have possibly occurred is 29 CE. It is my personal opinion that it was much later, but that would be hard for me to prove without significant research that I'm to lazy to do at the moment.

why?

Because it says that, immediately after being earthbound, he goes off to war against those carrying "the testimony of Jesus Christ", as I linked to you earlier.

Jesus Christ did not start teaching until 29 CE (or so).

[Chinese Regions]

Yes, keep blaming this apparition that's only mentioned in your bible, but never shown in the scripture itself.

I mean, at least in other religions the antagonist is apparent.

excuse me?
The serpent was a creature made by God but used by Satan (John 8:44 John 3:18 Rev 12:9 20:2)

And who made Satan? Knowing he would fall? Knowing how humanity and everything would also fall?

[Mavorpen]

excuse me?
The serpent was a creature made by God but used by Satan (John 8:44 John 3:18 Rev 12:9 20:2)

And who made Satan? Knowing he would fall? Knowing how humanity and everything would also fall?

I think you should give him multiple choice options, he's not very knowledgeable or understanding about this stuff.

[Vazdania]

excuse me?
The serpent was a creature made by God but used by Satan (John 8:44 John 3:18 Rev 12:9 20:2)

And who made Satan? Knowing he would fall? Knowing how humanity and everything would also fall?

Lucifer was made by God, Lucifer himself fell on his own accord. causing humanity to fall.

[Vazdania]

And who made Satan? Knowing he would fall? Knowing how humanity and everything would also fall?

I think you should give him multiple choice options, he's not very knowledgeable or understanding about this stuff.

argumentum ad hominum, don't attack the person attack the argument

[Galloism]

excuse me?
The serpent was a creature made by God but used by Satan (John 8:44 John 3:18 Rev 12:9 20:2)

And who made Satan? Knowing he would fall? Knowing how humanity and everything would also fall?

How do you presuppose that Satan's falling was predestined?

The Bible preaches pretty heavily against predestination and pretty heavily for free will.

[Mavorpen]

argumentum ad hominum, don't attack the person attack the argument

I was kidding... but since you asked for it.

Lucifer was made by God, Lucifer himself fell on his own accord. causing humanity to fall.

You don't understand do you? God knew Lucifer would fall, yet he created him. Either God's an asshole, or he really doesn't know everything. Either way God is a failure.

[Mavorpen]

And who made Satan? Knowing he would fall? Knowing how humanity and everything would also fall?

How do you presuppose that Satan's falling was predestined?

The Bible preaches pretty heavily against predestination and pretty heavily for free will.

He's not saying that it's predestined, but that god knew it would happen before hand.

[Vazdania]

1.) Revalation explains much of what happens before Genesis
2.) no it doesnt?

1) I'll Address this first, where Lucifer is cast to earth is in Revelation Chapter 12:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/kjv/rev012.htm

After being cast to Earth, the Dragon goes to war against those with the teachings of Jesus Christ. The absolute earliest that this would have been able to occur is sometime after Jesus' teaching began (29 CE, by common belief).

Abyssing does not occur until chapter 20...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+20&version=KJV

After Satan's abyssed, the first resurrection of the dead occurs. In addition, Satan was only to be abyssed for 1,000 years.

2) Defying someone's authority is challenging said authority. It's really not anymore straightforward than that.

it never says anything about the dragon going to war with the those with the teachings of Jesus Christ

[Galloism]

How do you presuppose that Satan's falling was predestined?

The Bible preaches pretty heavily against predestination and pretty heavily for free will.

He's not saying that it's predestined, but that god knew it would happen before hand.

That's the same as predestination, really.

[Mavorpen]

He's not saying that it's predestined, but that god knew it would happen before hand.

That's the same as predestination, really.

Well, if you take the most broad and misconstrued definition of it, sure.