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God died in Auschwitz

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Chinese Regions
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Postby Chinese Regions » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:57 am

Distruzio wrote:
Crystalcliff Point wrote:If you read the old testament, YHWH communicated with his followers on a frequent basis. Did you know that Moses slaughtered people?


I'm familiar. I never claimed to be Jewish and I made it explicitly clear that I'm no bibliolator. So while I may hold a fond reverence of the OT, I make no excuses for its contents beyond historical and cultural contexts and likely exaggerations following thousands of years of oral tradition finally being written down. I'm a Christian. My faith is defined in the NT and via Church doctrines.

I do know that following the slaughter, Moses reminds God of His covenant with the Jews to forgive, should He choose, sins of transgressions against Him with a blood sacrifice. Hence the slaughter. To which God responds with forgiveness and a promise to deliver His people from that covenant. I, of course, speak from Orthodox tradition which dictates that the Angel of deliverance promised by God was Jesus prefigured who would render blood sacrifices unnecessary.

Again, I'm not making excuses. I'm merely saying that our interpretation of morality is not applicable to God.



Ill get to it soon enough. As I said, I post via mobile phone. It'll take a moment.

The message of the Old testament stories are what Judeo-Christian laws are not the stories themselves, whatever the message was and how relevant it is to your religion, God was still a rapist and a mass-murder. You can dismiss the laws but you can't dismiss the stories.
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Postby Distruzio » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:06 am

Crystalcliff Point wrote:viewtopic.php?p=8223582#p8223582


God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union. He is fully man and fully God. He is spirit made flesh but remaining spirit. He is uncontainable yet was carried to term inside the womb of the blessed Mother Mary.

In short, these contradictions you list would only be contradictions for a Protestant seeking to paint the world ina rose tinted glass or a Unitarian seeking to pervert the essence of God into a monad-like nature. They would not know how to respond.
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Chinese Regions
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Postby Chinese Regions » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:11 am

Distruzio wrote:
Crystalcliff Point wrote:viewtopic.php?p=8223582#p8223582


God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union.

Yes it is really perfect when one forced another to go to Earth to get beaten and generally fucked up.
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Postby Crystalcliff Point » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:11 am

Distruzio wrote:God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union. He is fully man and fully God. He is spirit made flesh but remaining spirit. He is uncontainable yet was carried to term inside the womb of the blessed Mother Mary.

In short, these contradictions you list would only be contradictions for a Protestant seeking to paint the world ina rose tinted glass or a Unitarian seeking to pervert the essence of God into a monad-like nature. They would not know how to respond.

You know that isn't an adequate answer as well as I do.

Chinese Regions wrote:The message of the Old testament stories are what Judeo-Christian laws are not the stories themselves, whatever the message was and how relevant it is to your religion, God was still a rapist and a mass-murder. You can dismiss the laws but you can't dismiss the stories.

And this. Regardless of the "Softer/gentler" NT (It isn't really that "soft" or "gentle") YHWH is STILL responsible for the slaughter of countless people. He's STILL responsible for ordering his loyal followers to do the same. Regardless of how much you try to excuse him. Still a serial killer. Still a monster.
Last edited by Crystalcliff Point on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:22 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby New England and The Maritimes » Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:22 am

Distruzio wrote:
Crystalcliff Point wrote:viewtopic.php?p=8223582#p8223582


God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union. He is fully man and fully God. He is spirit made flesh but remaining spirit. He is uncontainable yet was carried to term inside the womb of the blessed Mother Mary.

In short, these contradictions you list would only be contradictions for a Protestant seeking to paint the world ina rose tinted glass or a Unitarian seeking to pervert the essence of God into a monad-like nature. They would not know how to respond.


It's very easy to sincerely believe in an oxymoron. This isn't exactly news.
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Jan 21, 2012 8:30 am

Distruzio wrote:
Chinese Regions wrote:I suppose you think you are not wrong?


Only when I interperet the text without consulting the Church and the patriarchal consensus.


Ah yes, the church. That corrupted empire that does nothing but brainwash people for money and has throughout history killed thousands/millions. I'm sure THEY interpret the Bible accurately.
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Postby Conserative Morality » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:49 am

Distruzio wrote:How did God commit such crimes when he hadn't yet manifested himself physically?

I don't believe most sects believe God has to manifest Himself in a physical body in order to influence the world. Else the whole Old Testament is false.
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:15 pm

Mavorpen wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Only when I interperet the text without consulting the Church and the patriarchal consensus.


Ah yes, the church. That corrupted empire that does nothing but brainwash people for money and has throughout history killed thousands/millions. I'm sure THEY interpret the Bible accurately.

Watch that blasphemous talk you dirty heathen!
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Postby Mavorpen » Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:39 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Mavorpen wrote:
Ah yes, the church. That corrupted empire that does nothing but brainwash people for money and has throughout history killed thousands/millions. I'm sure THEY interpret the Bible accurately.

Watch that blasphemous talk you dirty heathen!
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Getting hit with a Bible is intense shit... trust me, I've been caught in the cross fire of a Bible fight. :p
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Postby Four-sided Triangles » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:50 pm

Distruzio wrote:God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union. He is fully man and fully God. He is spirit made flesh but remaining spirit. He is uncontainable yet was carried to term inside the womb of the blessed Mother Mary.


So god is a giant list of metaphysical contradictions and logically impossible self-refuting paradoxes?
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Postby Seperates » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:54 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Distruzio wrote:How did God commit such crimes when he hadn't yet manifested himself physically?

I don't believe most sects believe God has to manifest Himself in a physical body in order to influence the world. Else the whole Old Testament is false.

Besides, there are plently of other Gods that have done so... Basically, Zues loved women. ;)
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Postby Genivaria » Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:59 pm

Seperates wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:I don't believe most sects believe God has to manifest Himself in a physical body in order to influence the world. Else the whole Old Testament is false.

Besides, there are plently of other Gods that have done so... Basically, Zues loved women. ;)

Against their will.
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Postby Galloism » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:08 pm

Four-sided Triangles wrote:
Distruzio wrote:God is not a monad. He is three persons in perfect union. He is fully man and fully God. He is spirit made flesh but remaining spirit. He is uncontainable yet was carried to term inside the womb of the blessed Mother Mary.


So god is a giant list of metaphysical contradictions and logically impossible self-refuting paradoxes?

Most major "Christian" religions would have you believe so.

It's not what the Bible teaches, but that has never seemed to matter to most people who claim to be Christian.
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Postby Chinese Regions » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:10 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Seperates wrote:Besides, there are plently of other Gods that have done so... Basically, Zues loved women. ;)

Against their will.

Not always
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Postby Seperates » Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:37 pm

Genivaria wrote:
Seperates wrote:Besides, there are plently of other Gods that have done so... Basically, Zues loved women. ;)

Against their will.

Almost always :?
Last edited by Seperates on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Arbites » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:53 pm

Seperates wrote:
Genivaria wrote:Against their will.

Almost always :?

Yeah, Zeus was a dick.

Made it easier to explain when fires started by lightning strikes burned down your home though:

"By Athena, I've lost everything! My house was burnt to the ground by lightning!"

"Well yeah, Zeus is a serial rapist. Dude's a giant asshole."

"Oh yeah, fuck that guy."
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Postby Norstal » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:55 pm

Stronbollia wrote:
Crystalcliff Point wrote:No, but as many have said before: It means he's malicious, incompetent or just plain apathetic.

Or that he doesn't exist.


Or that he used the pain of world war II to teach humanity a lesson to love each other and prevent future atrocities like that for future generations to come while at the same Time making America get involved to limit the atrocity as much as possible. Humanity created the holocaust not god so god isn't incompetent or malicious

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And henceforth, the more they ban you, the more nicer you will be?
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Postby Norstal » Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:59 pm

Christmahanikwanzikah wrote:
Norstal wrote:Proverbs 17:22


Do you know what this means? The Bible is a template of a god. A template in which anyone can make a god out of the scriptures. It's a forge, an anvil. Take it how you will. If you were to believe the God that is written word for word in the Bible, you would believe the scripture word for word.

I however, congratulate you that you don't take it word for word because as you explained earlier, it makes people become extremist. It "distorts the faith".

Don't you ever wonder why Christianity is so successful? There's loads of other monotheist religious...why not do that one instead?

This is why. It's because anyone can become a Christian and make their own Christian god. It's a farce for me, which is why I turn to other beliefs, but as for you, I've done all I can to explain why your god is not the Biblical god.


No, it's more like, if the Spirit is in you, then the consequences - the fruit - of that is that you're inclined to do those things listed.

It's kind of hard to get that context from Proverbs, since there's no context but culture because it's literally a book of proverbs and sayings.

Well, ok, but there's more Bible verses that are all sweet and candy-like. That was my point.
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Postby Galloism » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:00 pm

Norstal wrote:
Stronbollia wrote:
Or that he used the pain of world war II to teach humanity a lesson to love each other and prevent future atrocities like that for future generations to come while at the same Time making America get involved to limit the atrocity as much as possible. Humanity created the holocaust not god so god isn't incompetent or malicious

Oh, so if a mod bans you, you'll be nicer to us.

And henceforth, the more they ban you, the more nicer you will be?

Always humorous to me...

If one believes in the Bible, one has to draw this funny conclusion about most religious people.

1) God creates paradise, which he rules.
2) Humans decide they don't want to live by his rules, say "Fuck you, God. We're going by our own rules."
3) God says "Okay, we'll try it your way."
4) Man fucks up.
5) Man blames God, says "Why did you do this to us????"
6) God says... "WTF???"
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Postby Vazdania » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:02 pm

Galloism wrote:
Norstal wrote:Oh, so if a mod bans you, you'll be nicer to us.

And henceforth, the more they ban you, the more nicer you will be?

Always humorous to me...

If one believes in the Bible, one has to draw this funny conclusion about most religious people.

1) God creates paradise, which he rules.
2) Humans decide they don't want to live by his rules, say "Fuck you, God. We're going by our own rules."
3) God says "Okay, we'll try it your way."
4) Man fucks up.
5) Man blames God, says "Why did you do this to us????"
6) God says... "WTF???"

thats not really how it went....
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Postby Norstal » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:02 pm

Orcoa wrote:You know what I have noticed in threads like these? It seems like either there is one, two or more christian posters who try get into the debate...but get surrounded by atheists, others .etc. I have a answer for this...Don't post in this kind of Thread, Seriously don't do it..if you are a christian and you try to post in this kind of thread..you will get no one and it waste everyone's time. I have learned this long ago and it has helped me since :lol:

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Postby Galloism » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:03 pm

Vazdania wrote:
Galloism wrote:Always humorous to me...

If one believes in the Bible, one has to draw this funny conclusion about most religious people.

1) God creates paradise, which he rules.
2) Humans decide they don't want to live by his rules, say "Fuck you, God. We're going by our own rules."
3) God says "Okay, we'll try it your way."
4) Man fucks up.
5) Man blames God, says "Why did you do this to us????"
6) God says... "WTF???"

thats not really how it went....

Ok, I threw in a bit of literary license.

Essentially, though, it's how it went, biblically, at any rate. If you are inclined to believe such things, of course.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
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Postby Norstal » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:06 pm

Galloism wrote:Always humorous to me...

If one believes in the Bible, one has to draw this funny conclusion about most religious people.

1) God creates paradise, which he rules.
2) Humans decide they don't want to live by his rules, say "Fuck you, God. We're going by our own rules."
3) God says "Okay, we'll try it your way."
4) Man fucks up.
5) Man blames God, says "Why did you do this to us????"
6) God says... "WTF???"

Yeah, see, that would make sense. That would fit with the statement that God died in Auschwitz.

But what's painful is that religious people still think it's god who wrought this upon ourselves (???).
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Postby Vazdania » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:06 pm

Galloism wrote:
Vazdania wrote:thats not really how it went....

Ok, I threw in a bit of literary license.

Essentially, though, it's how it went, biblically, at any rate. If you are inclined to believe such things, of course.

not really it kinda went like this

God made a perfect paradise and a paradise on Earth
Lucifer rebelled
God sent them to Hell
Lucifer however had "a trick up his sleeve"
He screwed up God's still perfect creation on Earth
In so doing He caused us to commit sin
God banishes us from the Paradise
Lucifer and his Demons still plauge us today
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Postby Vazdania » Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:07 pm

Norstal wrote:
Galloism wrote:Always humorous to me...

If one believes in the Bible, one has to draw this funny conclusion about most religious people.

1) God creates paradise, which he rules.
2) Humans decide they don't want to live by his rules, say "Fuck you, God. We're going by our own rules."
3) God says "Okay, we'll try it your way."
4) Man fucks up.
5) Man blames God, says "Why did you do this to us????"
6) God says... "WTF???"

Yeah, see, that would make sense. That would fit with the statement that God died in Auschwitz.

But what's painful is that religious people still think it's god who wrought this upon ourselves (???).

it was kinda lucifers fault....just FYI
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