ACORN and Prostitution

[JuNii]

1) As I said, individual offices. not ACORN as a whole. the three offices should be investigated, but until evidence points to ACORN as a whole organization is doing something hinky... those three offices should be investigated for improper/illegal activities. I've never called for an investigation on ACORN as a whole.

So, they should be investigated for ILLEGAL activities, but not have it be a criminal investigation.

Seriously, may I show this thread, in its entirety, to my classmates in Law School? They will shit kittens who will in turn piss themselves.

sure, if you want. after all, you also let them know that of the two posting here, I never claimed to be a student of law while Jocabia has claimed to have taken classes.

so be sure to point out his revelation that investigations in general cannot be done without evidence of a crime and it took the non-law student to point out the difference between an investigation and a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.

I'm off to bed now. nite.

Uh, actually, I claimed to have written classes. For a company called University.com in the late 90's. I'm not sure how pointing out you're the one with the least understanding of the subject in this topic helps you. It's been ten years so I'm probably a bit rusty, but not so much that I don't recognize the link between investigating a crime and a criminal investigation.

The non-law student you're referencingg, you, claimed the difference is that unless you explicitly say "criminal investigation" it's not a criminal investigation even if you are in an official capacity investigating criminal activities. See, you should probably just quit when you're ahead, my friend. This was astonishing. Seriously, I know you don't recognize it, but this is straight out, jaw-dropping stuff.

apologies, I thought I remember you saying you studied law. but I can't find the post, so again, my apologies.

Hammurab. forget those conditions.

[JuNii]

1) As I said, individual offices. not ACORN as a whole. the three offices should be investigated, but until evidence points to ACORN as a whole organization is doing something hinky... those three offices should be investigated for improper/illegal activities. I've never called for an investigation on ACORN as a whole.

So, they should be investigated for ILLEGAL activities, but not have it be a criminal investigation.

Seriously, may I show this thread, in its entirety, to my classmates in Law School? They will shit kittens who will in turn piss themselves.

sure, if you want. after all, you also let them know that of the two posting here, I never claimed to be a student of law while Jocabia has claimed to have taken classes.

so be sure to point out his revelation that investigations in general cannot be done without evidence of a crime and it took the non-law student to point out the difference between an investigation and a CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.

I'm off to bed now. nite.

Jocabia's comments indicate he may have taken some classes, whereas yours indicate a near terrifying lack of rudimentary understanding of several basic legal doctrines.

And since, by your own quotes, you were calling for an investigation into "aiding and abetting tax fraud" (which it shouldn't take a Juris Doctorate to know is a crime) as well as several other crimes (prostitution, etc), such investigations, by definition are criminal investigations.

Because, JuNii, they are investigations into crimes. Hence, investigating them is criminal investigation.

Dude, his problem isn't with law. It's with the English language.

And I didn't say I was eating a cheeseburger. You said I was eating a cheeseburger. I said I was eating a burger with three kinds of cheese on it. It's a burger, not a cheeseburger. Seriously, man, pay attention and stop putting words in my mouth.

what ever. again, I'm happy that some form of investigation is going to happen.

[Hammurab]

Hammurab. forget those conditions.

I wasn't going to include them to begin with, because my classmates are being trained to read for detail, and can read for themselves what each of you claimed.

In particular, they'll be able to read this:

Of course. Aiding and abetting Federal Income Tax fraud is always best investigated by the States.

Hell, some States actually do use Federal AGI as a means of assessing taxable income for State income Tax, so its not even completely ridiculous.

And since it won't be a criminal investigation, they can take 3 ACORN Offices to civil court and sue them under tort law...for...conversion of chattel in the form of tax dollars.

(emphasis added and needed, evidently)

what about state taxes? do Federal entities investigate State Tax Fraud? or did we forget about state taxes?

and don't forget, people in the captial are also calling for an investigation.

Seriously, its like saying to somebody

"We brought bananas, strawberries, and cherries"

and they say

"What about strawberries? Or did we forget about strawberries?" followed by "Anyway, I'm not talking about those things, I'm talking about fruit."

[Tekania]

"Tax Fraud" investigations may or may not by useful... Even if they told people certain things, unless ACORN personnel were signing the "Prepared by.." line on federal/state tax forms; there's no "tax fraud" that can be applied... If such were the case that providing incorrect or misleading information regarding federal/state taxes to people, the tax-courts would be filled to the brim with cases... "Tax Fraud" on applies to the preparer (Whether the tax-payer or the agent) not to someone who advises.

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

To be fair, maybe he was talking about a Scooby Doo investigation?

[Unchecked Expansion]

To be fair, maybe he was talking about a Scooby Doo investigation?

And the real pimp was .... Old Man Withers! Zoinks!

[New Mitanni]

So now Big Bertha is promising to "investigate" and "reform" ACORN:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ute-tapes/

ACORN's top officer said Sunday that she was "outraged" by the content of hidden-camera videotapes showing her organization's employees offering advice to undercover filmmakers posing as a pimp and prostitute, as she pledged to "reform" the inner workings of the activist group.

Once again, Fox News gets the story right. Once again, the DLM does its best not to cover stories unfavorable to Obamunist interests, and to play "me too" once Fox breaks the news. And once again, Fox-haters are exposed for what they really are. http://blog.taragana.com/e/wp-content/u ... yrus_2.jpg

[NotnotgnimmiJymmiJ]

So now Big Bertha is promising to "investigate" and "reform" ACORN:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ute-tapes/

ACORN's top officer said Sunday that she was "outraged" by the content of hidden-camera videotapes showing her organization's employees offering advice to undercover filmmakers posing as a pimp and prostitute, as she pledged to "reform" the inner workings of the activist group.

Once again, Fox News gets the story right. Once again, the DLM does its best not to cover stories unfavorable to Obamunist interests, and to play "me too" once Fox breaks the news. And once again, Fox-haters are exposed for what they really are. http://blog.taragana.com/e/wp-content/u ... yrus_2.jpg

Fox News was given the tapes. How do you expect the "DLM" to break a story that they don't have?

[Jocabia]

So now Big Bertha is promising to "investigate" and "reform" ACORN:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ute-tapes/

ACORN's top officer said Sunday that she was "outraged" by the content of hidden-camera videotapes showing her organization's employees offering advice to undercover filmmakers posing as a pimp and prostitute, as she pledged to "reform" the inner workings of the activist group.

Once again, Fox News gets the story right. Once again, the DLM does its best not to cover stories unfavorable to Obamunist interests, and to play "me too" once Fox breaks the news. And once again, Fox-haters are exposed for what they really are. http://blog.taragana.com/e/wp-content/u ... yrus_2.jpg

Fox News was given the tapes. How do you expect the "DLM" to break a story that they don't have?

Not to mention that it's been on the "DLM" since it broke. The only difference was that the media didn't guess at the news. They said what was there and what wasn't there. Like rational people. NM hates that. He doesn't want a rational reaction to the facts. He wants outrage and bullshit.

The fact is that the "DLM" hadn't seen an unedited tape. So they went by what they could see and reported both sides of the story based on the facts. Outrageous, no?

This is another case of NM making up the facts wholesale. It's been pointed out repeatedly to the people in this thread, by the people in this thread, that it's been on CNN and other networks since the day the story broke. Apparently, that counts as 'me too'.

EDIT: Typo

[Aperture Science]

So now Big Bertha is promising to "investigate" and "reform" ACORN:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09 ... ute-tapes/

ACORN's top officer said Sunday that she was "outraged" by the content of hidden-camera videotapes showing her organization's employees offering advice to undercover filmmakers posing as a pimp and prostitute, as she pledged to "reform" the inner workings of the activist group.

Once again, Fox News gets the story right. Once again, the DLM does its best not to cover stories unfavorable to Obamunist interests, and to play "me too" once Fox breaks the news. And once again, Fox-haters are exposed for what they really are. http://blog.taragana.com/e/wp-content/u ... yrus_2.jpg

Fox News was given the tapes. How do you expect the "DLM" to break a story that they don't have?

Not to mention that it's been on the "DLM" since it broke. The only difference was that the media didn't guess at the news. They said what was there and what wasn't there. Like rational people. NM hates that. He doesn't want a rational reaction to the facts. He wants outrage and bullshit.

The fact is that the "DLM" hadn't seen an unedited tape. So they went by what they could see and reported both sides of the story based on the facts. Outrageous, no?

This is another case of NM making up the facts wholesale. It's been pointed out repeatedly to the people in this thread, by the people in this thread, that it's been on CNN and other networks since the day the story broke. Apparently, that counts as 'me too'.

EDIT: Typo

It's too bad congress is reacting the same way The Red Arr- I mean, New Mittani is. Blood is in the water and it's time to increase your political cred! CUT FUNDING, THROW EVERY ACORN MEMBER IN GUANTANAMO, DROP NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON ACORN HQ! PURGE! DESTROY!

OK, a bit of hyperbole, but that's the impression I'm getting.

[NERVUN]

Looks like said worker reported the traffickers to the police.

Police: ACORN worker in video reported couple

Monday, September 21, 2009

(09-21) 19:09 PDT National City, Calif. (AP) --

Police say an ACORN worker caught on video giving advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute had reported the incident to police.

National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling.

Vera was secretly filmed on Aug. 18 as part of a young couple's high-profile expose.

Police say he contacted law enforcement two days later. The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details.

The ACORN employee responded several days later and explained that the information he received was not true and he had been duped.

Vera was fired on Thursday.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

I'm sure we're going to get a mea cuppa from NM now, right?

[Aperture Science]

Looks like said worker reported the traffickers to the police.

Police: ACORN worker in video reported couple

Monday, September 21, 2009

(09-21) 19:09 PDT National City, Calif. (AP) --

Police say an ACORN worker caught on video giving advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute had reported the incident to police.

National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling.

Vera was secretly filmed on Aug. 18 as part of a young couple's high-profile expose.

Police say he contacted law enforcement two days later. The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details.

The ACORN employee responded several days later and explained that the information he received was not true and he had been duped.

Vera was fired on Thursday.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

I'm sure we're going to get a mea cuppa from NM now, right?

It's standard policy that when you're accused of rape it's on page one, and when you're found 'not guilty' it's on page 3.

This probably won't make any big difference in the proceedings. Those who've already made up their minds will declare that the LIBERAL MEDIA somehow made the call backwards in time.

[Non Aligned States]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

I'm sure we're going to get a mea cuppa from NM now, right?

You're going to get a cup of joe from NM? Since culpa is fault after all.

But if it's an apology from NM you wanted, well, I imagine you have better luck getting a class full of ninensei angels in their first year.

[Everyone Loves Cats]

Is there an actual police report filed? What I got from that article is that they guy talked to his cousin who happened to be a cop. Big difference.

And it doesn't change the advice that the worker gave the two videographers.

[Treznor]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

[Aperture Science]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

EDIT:
I wonder how the Republicans will extract themselves from this one. They can't just say 'Oh, all is forgiven' and any obvious modification to the bill to exclude certain parties will HOPEFULLY not go unnoticed...at least, I HOPE the American public isn't THAT stupid and shortsighted.

EDIT AGAIN:
I was browsing the list of federal contractors accused of misconduct when I came upon...
The government of Canada!

http://www.contractormisconduct.org/ind ... ranking=69

Bad Canadians! No more federal $$$ for you! We'll supply our OWN maple syrup, hockey and moose's from now on!

[JuNii]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

agreed. then again, any word that the bill is being repealed or revised?

[JuNii]

Looks like said worker reported the traffickers to the police.

Police: ACORN worker in video reported couple

Monday, September 21, 2009

(09-21) 19:09 PDT National City, Calif. (AP) --

Police say an ACORN worker caught on video giving advice about human smuggling to a couple posing as a pimp and a prostitute had reported the incident to police.

National City police said Monday that Juan Carlos Vera contacted his cousin, a police detective, to get advice on what to with information on possible human smuggling.

Vera was secretly filmed on Aug. 18 as part of a young couple's high-profile expose.

Police say he contacted law enforcement two days later. The detective consulted another police official who served on a federal human smuggling task force, who said he needed more details.

The ACORN employee responded several days later and explained that the information he received was not true and he had been duped.

Vera was fired on Thursday.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

I'm sure we're going to get a mea cuppa from NM now, right?

if we are playing "exact wording" then it wasn't reported to the police. Vera only called to ask for "Advice" not to report anyone about human traffiking.

[Treznor]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

agreed. then again, any word that the bill is being repealed or revised?

FTA:

Immediately after the bill passed, Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), a constitutional whiz, noted that the measure appeared to be a "bill of attainder" -- specifically targeting a company or organization or individual -- and is therefore specifically barred by the Constitution. If it's not targeted at one group, then Northrop Grumman is in trouble.

[Aperture Science]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

agreed. then again, any word that the bill is being repealed or revised?

My bet is on a quiet pigeonholing. Like I said in my edit, the Republicans can't exactly suddenly come out against it now that they've found it it hurts their buddies too.

The only way it'd pass would be if the dems made a big deal about it...which they won't.

[JuNii]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

agreed. then again, any word that the bill is being repealed or revised?

FTA:

Immediately after the bill passed, Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), a constitutional whiz, noted that the measure appeared to be a "bill of attainder" -- specifically targeting a company or organization or individual -- and is therefore specifically barred by the Constitution. If it's not targeted at one group, then Northrop Grumman is in trouble.

so... it's a play then. if the bill fails, then it will still make the Republicans look like they are going after all companies guilty of fraud while the Dems are giving them a 'pass'. if it passes, with a Democatic Majority, the Republicans can 'hide' behind the Dems while major companies lose their fat Gov contracts...

[JuNii]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

agreed. then again, any word that the bill is being repealed or revised?

My bet is on a quiet pigeonholing. Like I said in my edit, the Republicans can't exactly suddenly come out against it now that they've found it it hurts their buddies too.

The only way it'd pass would be if the dems made a big deal about it...which they won't.

this too.

[Aperture Science]

Whoops.

So it seems that the anti-ACORN bill being pushed through Congress is a little too broad. It seems that it seeks to defund "any organization that has been charged with breaking federal or state election laws, lobbying disclosure laws, campaign finance laws or filing fraudulent paperwork with any federal or state agency. It also applies to any of the employees, contractors or other folks affiliated with a group charged with any of those things."

Which apparently includes the majority of the military-industrial complex. The article points out that Lockheed Martin and Northrop Gumman both have at least twenty violations between them, and the longer list includes pretty much everyone who supplies our military. Halliburton, Blackwater/XE, etc.

But it's ACORN that's the real threat to our nation, right?

Oh, if only it had gotten passed before this had been pointed out...

agreed. then again, any word that the bill is being repealed or revised?

FTA:

Immediately after the bill passed, Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), a constitutional whiz, noted that the measure appeared to be a "bill of attainder" -- specifically targeting a company or organization or individual -- and is therefore specifically barred by the Constitution. If it's not targeted at one group, then Northrop Grumman is in trouble.

We just have to hope some brave soul is willing to come forward and say "Does it SAY 'ACORN" anywhere in the bill? Clearly not, therefore, let it go ahead!"

But that would require a congressperson without both hands deeply inserted into their corporate sponsors pockets.

[JuNii]

FTA:

Immediately after the bill passed, Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), a constitutional whiz, noted that the measure appeared to be a "bill of attainder" -- specifically targeting a company or organization or individual -- and is therefore specifically barred by the Constitution. If it's not targeted at one group, then Northrop Grumman is in trouble.

We just have to hope some brave soul is willing to come forward and say "Does it SAY 'ACORN" anywhere in the bill? Clearly not, therefore, let it go ahead!"

But that would require a congressperson without both hands deeply inserted into their corporate sponsors pockets.

Nadler should've kept his mouth shut.

After it passes, then point out all the companies that qualify under the bill and let them squirm.

[Aperture Science]

FTA:

Immediately after the bill passed, Rep. Jerry Nadler (D-N.Y.), a constitutional whiz, noted that the measure appeared to be a "bill of attainder" -- specifically targeting a company or organization or individual -- and is therefore specifically barred by the Constitution. If it's not targeted at one group, then Northrop Grumman is in trouble.

We just have to hope some brave soul is willing to come forward and say "Does it SAY 'ACORN" anywhere in the bill? Clearly not, therefore, let it go ahead!"

But that would require a congressperson without both hands deeply inserted into their corporate sponsors pockets.

Nadler should've kept his mouth shut.

After it passes, then point out all the companies that qualify under the bill and let them squirm.

Ah, what a glorious day that would be...forcing our politicians to decide between votes and money.