ACORN and Prostitution

[JuNii]

ah, so giving someone advice on how to doctor your tax returns when it's your job to assist people with taxes is not wrong? gotcha.

Wrong =/= illegal.

What exactly is the law you're claiming they should be investigated for breaking?

ah, so only when it's proven to be ILLEGAL will an investigation be instigated. Gotcha.

No, when there is some evidence of a crime. What crime are you saying this is evidence of?

again jocabia. "There has to be a crime before an investigation starts". so a person missing isn't a 'crime' yet arn't reports of missing persons investigated to determine if a crime is involved?

or again, jobcabia, are you saying aiding and abetting tax fraud as well as an illegal business not evidence of a crime?

[Treznor]

so, the ACORN person, giving tips on how to disguise a brothel of underaged persons is not 'something illegal'?
an ACORN person giving tips on how to doctor their TAX RECORDS is not 'something illegal'?

joke or not, those tips and suggestions are portraying an illegal activity and should be treated as such.

to blow it off as a 'Fox News' stunt is irrisponsible and down right stupid.

Not when it's entrapment. Not when the investigators specifically approached them (and edited out all the video of all the other people who told them to take a hike) to ask for advice on how to do precisely that. The only evidence of anything illegal at this point is the behavior of the investigators.

[JuNii]

so, the ACORN person, giving tips on how to disguise a brothel of underaged persons is not 'something illegal'?
an ACORN person giving tips on how to doctor their TAX RECORDS is not 'something illegal'?

joke or not, those tips and suggestions are portraying an illegal activity and should be treated as such.

to blow it off as a 'Fox News' stunt is irrisponsible and down right stupid.

Not when it's entrapment. Not when the investigators specifically approached them (and edited out all the video of all the other people who told them to take a hike) to ask for advice on how to do precisely that. The only evidence of anything illegal at this point is the behavior of the investigators.

it's not entrapment because the two 'investigators' are NOT law enforement officers.
You need to prove the tape was edited by the 'two investigators' and not Fox News for time and content.
and to prove your points requires what... an investigation.

a proper investigation, not one focused on ACORN, will reveal if 1) the tapes were doctored by the two 2) if ACORN did anything Illegal, 3) if the investigators did anything illegal.

[Kynchile]

ACORN, and it's scandels are just a small glimpse into the future of our healthcare under these powerful, well connected, corrupt organizations that have come into power as the federal government grows. These videos are a sickening look into the morals of a decaying society and the apathy of it's ardent supporters. I guess to certain progressives; the end justifies the means.

[Farnhamia]

ACORN, and it's scandels are just a small glimpse into the future of our healthcare under these powerful, well connected, corrupt organizations that have come into power as the federal government grows. These videos are a sickening look into the morals of a decaying society and the apathy of it's ardent supporters. I guess to certain progressives; the end justifies the means.

I don't think I've used this before, but you get my first one ...

I assume you include Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown & Root and their ilk who enjoyed the Bush Administration so much in that category.

Drinking that much Kool-Aid will make you sick, you know.

[Jocabia]

ah, so giving someone advice on how to doctor your tax returns when it's your job to assist people with taxes is not wrong? gotcha.

Wrong =/= illegal.

What exactly is the law you're claiming they should be investigated for breaking?

ah, so only when it's proven to be ILLEGAL will an investigation be instigated. Gotcha.

No, when there is some evidence of a crime. What crime are you saying this is evidence of?

again jocabia. "There has to be a crime before an investigation starts". so a person missing isn't a 'crime' yet arn't reports of missing persons investigated to determine if a crime is involved?

or again, jobcabia, are you saying aiding and abetting tax fraud as well as an illegal business not evidence of a crime?

Again, you're misunderstanding and it does not seem to accidental. There has to be evidence of a crime before they begin to treat a missing person as a crime. They cannot go into a private residence and start collecting evidence without some evidence that a crime has occurred. How do you propose the investigate ACORN without collecting some of their private materials? Stand outside and glare?

And now we're getting down to it. "Aiding and Abetting" is the crime you're claiming they did. A couple more posts and you'll have kind of sort of formed an actual argument.

So now, did a crime occur for them to have "aided and abetted"? Actually, no. No crime actually occurred. Moreso, was ACORN as an entity aware of that crime or is there some evidence to suggest they were? Nope. In fact, the evidence actually suggests the opposite since they had to shop employees until they found someone will to even humor them.

But, see, it's not actually possible to address the flaws in your claims until you intelligently and clearly make your claim. That requires more than just vagueries about how we need to investigate the bast... uh, I mean, valid community organization and more of a clear reason why and what should be investigated.

[Gauthier]

ACORN, and it's scandels are just a small glimpse into the future of our healthcare under these powerful, well connected, corrupt organizations that have come into power as the federal government grows. These videos are a sickening look into the morals of a decaying society and the apathy of it's ardent supporters. I guess to certain progressives; the end justifies the means.

I don't think I've used this before, but you get my first one ...

I assume you include Halliburton and Kellogg, Brown & Root and their ilk who enjoyed the Bush Administration so much in that category.

Drinking that much Kool-Aid will make you sick, you know.

They didn't drink that much Kool-Aid in Jonestown by comparison, either.

[Jocabia]

so, the ACORN person, giving tips on how to disguise a brothel of underaged persons is not 'something illegal'?
an ACORN person giving tips on how to doctor their TAX RECORDS is not 'something illegal'?

joke or not, those tips and suggestions are portraying an illegal activity and should be treated as such.

to blow it off as a 'Fox News' stunt is irrisponsible and down right stupid.

Not when it's entrapment. Not when the investigators specifically approached them (and edited out all the video of all the other people who told them to take a hike) to ask for advice on how to do precisely that. The only evidence of anything illegal at this point is the behavior of the investigators.

it's not entrapment because the two 'investigators' are NOT law enforement officers.
You need to prove the tape was edited by the 'two investigators' and not Fox News for time and content.
and to prove your points requires what... an investigation.

a proper investigation, not one focused on ACORN, will reveal if 1) the tapes were doctored by the two 2) if ACORN did anything Illegal, 3) if the investigators did anything illegal.

And that investigation would of the people who collected the evidence and the two workers on the tape. At this time, there isn't any evidence that ACORN did anything illegal and there is evidence to the contrary. There is nothing to give them cause to begin an investigation into ACORN which is what you explicitly called for.

[Ashmoria]

so, the ACORN person, giving tips on how to disguise a brothel of underaged persons is not 'something illegal'?
an ACORN person giving tips on how to doctor their TAX RECORDS is not 'something illegal'?

joke or not, those tips and suggestions are portraying an illegal activity and should be treated as such.

to blow it off as a 'Fox News' stunt is irrisponsible and down right stupid.

no i dont think it is.

i could be wrong of course but i dont think that its illegal to shoot the breeze about ways to fill out your tax forms.

now if money had exchanged hands, if they had filled out forms, if they had taken down some sort of identifying information, that might well be a crime.

*shrug* im sure one of the lawyers here could tell us if discussing ways to disguise your true occupation on a tax return is illegal.

EDIT

and moreover i dont think that it is acorn's policy to give advice to pimps and that firing the workers who DID is enough of a punishment.

having one person show up and get treated with the respect that he didnt deserve is not the same as soliciting the business of illegal enterprises.

[Kynchile]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

[Ashmoria]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

certainly not.

as long as there ARE wrongs.

[Jocabia]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

We have yet to see anything they need to be excused for.

[Farnhamia]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

Just making sure you're including everyone, is all.

[Treznor]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

No, but are you being consistent? Are you attacking Halliburton, Blackwater and all the other multi-billion dollar corporations making illegal profits off taxpayer money with the same fervor? Or is it just this organization that the Republicans have decided to villify for its participation in promoting voter registration among segments of the population not known to vote for them?

[Free Soviets]

just so we're clear, our crack investigative team showed up, i fucking kid you not, dressed like this:

[Jocabia]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

No, but are you being consistent? Are you attacking Halliburton, Blackwater and all the other multi-billion dollar corporations making illegal profits off taxpayer money with the same fervor? Or is it just this organization that the Republicans have decided to villify for its participation in promoting voter registration among segments of the population not known to vote for them?

When you are the minority party, the ONLY way you can win is to suppress voter participation for the other party. Frankly, I don't entirely blame them, though, I am interested in stopping them from succeeding.

[Jocabia]

just so we're clear, our crack investigative team showed up, i fucking kid you not, dressed like this:

Man, oh, man, I wish we could get a hold of the undoctored tape. I bet it's a kick.

[Farnhamia]

just so we're clear, our crack investigative team showed up, i fucking kid you not, dressed like this:

So, really, ACORN firing the people who sat down with them and wasted time with them was the right thing to do.

[Kynchile]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

No, but are you being consistent? Are you attacking Halliburton, Blackwater and all the other multi-billion dollar corporations making illegal profits off taxpayer money with the same fervor? Or is it just this organization that the Republicans have decided to villify for its participation in promoting voter registration among segments of the population not known to vote for them?

When Bush was in power I was very critical of him and his cronies.

[Farnhamia]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

No, but are you being consistent? Are you attacking Halliburton, Blackwater and all the other multi-billion dollar corporations making illegal profits off taxpayer money with the same fervor? Or is it just this organization that the Republicans have decided to villify for its participation in promoting voter registration among segments of the population not known to vote for them?

When Bush was in power I was very critical of him and his cronies.

Of course you were. It's funny, I can't seem to find anyone who approved of anything Bush and his cronies did anymore. Weird, the place used to be crawling with them.

[Free Soviets]

Man, oh, man, I wish we could get a hold of the undoctored tape. I bet it's a kick.

i'm impressed that anyone managed to keep a straight face while quite obviously just fucking around with them (as was clearly the case in the savage, if unplanned, burn pulled by the lady from california on fox's gullible airing of ludicrousness)

[Kynchile]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

We have yet to see anything they need to be excused for.

I would put it this way. I wouldn't want anyone of ACORN caliber around my home. I wouldn't want to have a drink with them, nor would I introduce them to my family. Everyone has their own standards I guess.

[Treznor]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

No, but are you being consistent? Are you attacking Halliburton, Blackwater and all the other multi-billion dollar corporations making illegal profits off taxpayer money with the same fervor? Or is it just this organization that the Republicans have decided to villify for its participation in promoting voter registration among segments of the population not known to vote for them?

When you are the minority party, the ONLY way you can win is to suppress voter participation for the other party. Frankly, I don't entirely blame them, though, I am interested in stopping them from succeeding.

Republicans have known for forty years that their chances of winning improve when voter turnout is low. It's been part of their election strategy since Nixon.

[Jocabia]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

No, but are you being consistent? Are you attacking Halliburton, Blackwater and all the other multi-billion dollar corporations making illegal profits off taxpayer money with the same fervor? Or is it just this organization that the Republicans have decided to villify for its participation in promoting voter registration among segments of the population not known to vote for them?

When Bush was in power I was very critical of him and his cronies.

Really? What were some of the things you were critical of Bush doing? Just curious.

[Jocabia]

The evils of other organizations and men should give no excuse or alibis to ACORN and it's defenders. Two wrongs make a right?

We have yet to see anything they need to be excused for.

I would put it this way. I wouldn't want anyone of ACORN caliber around my home. I wouldn't want to have a drink with them, nor would I introduce them to my family. Everyone has their own standards I guess.

Yes, yours is to use gross generalizations to paint a large group of people. I'm trying to think of a word for that.