ACORN and Prostitution

[Treznor]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

It certainly asks a question, and I have no problem with ACORN being investigated. But is it being investigated because it is providing a safe haven for illegal practices, or is it being investigated because people of a particular ideology don't like what it does? The former is valid justification, while the latter is harrassment.

[Ashmoria]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

[Farnhamia]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

Exactly. The "investigators" shopped around to a number of ACORN offices until they found people who would take them seriously. Trez posted something earlier that claims the ACORN folks were punking the couple, that they knew they were play-acting. I don't know about that, but ACORN reacted appropriately: they fired their employees who gave the "investigators" the dubious tax advice.

ACORN also acted appropriately when they found that some people working for them in Florida had broken the law by registering non-existent people to vote: they turned them in to the FBI.

Where has ACORN acted dishonestly? Can what the allegations against them compare to the allegations against the GOP and their operatives of election tampering in 2000 and 2004?

[Fiduses and Diuses]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

You missed a twist, the first video people apparently knew that they were fakers but did it for the shock/laugh value. Though they could be lying about that..
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/ACORN-Pulls-Its-Colbert-Card-59448747.html

[Ordo Mallus]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

You missed a twist, the first video people apparently knew that they were fakers but did it for the shock/laugh value. Though they could be lying about that..
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/ACORN-Pulls-Its-Colbert-Card-59448747.html

wha?

[JuNii]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

for what? how about advice of illgal matters (tax evasion), promotion of illegal activities (prostitution).

and I, for one, did not suggest investigating ACORN as a whole, but each office. because they 'shopped around' and only a few, relatively, took the bait, those offices should be investigated.

and if those workers were "joking around" then even worse. professonally, there are things one should NOT joke about.

[Fiduses and Diuses]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

You missed a twist, the first video people apparently knew that they were fakers but did it for the shock/laugh value. Though they could be lying about that..
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/ACORN-Pulls-Its-Colbert-Card-59448747.html

wha?

When the "pimp" came in they called in an organizer, she didn't believe his story/saw the camera so she lied/intentionally exaggerated the truth much like how Colbert does on his "news" shows for shock/laugh value some members of the media think she was telling the whole truth and are playing off that to cut Acorns funding/call them the worst thing since watergate. There is little way to know the truth since at the moment its mostly he said versus she said when an actual investigation is done then maybe certain elements of the media can bit** erh report about it.
At least thats how I see it.

[Treznor]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

for what? how about advice of illgal matters (tax evasion), promotion of illegal activities (prostitution).

and I, for one, did not suggest investigating ACORN as a whole, but each office. because they 'shopped around' and only a few, relatively, took the bait, those offices should be investigated.

and if those workers were "joking around" then even worse. professonally, there are things one should NOT joke about.

Two things:

1. The investigators were clearly trolling in a process that our legal system calls "entrapment." They went so far as to edit out the people who refused to deal with them, or otherwise portrayed ACORN in a positive light.

2. When brought to their attention, ACORN promptly fired the people who engaged in this behavior whether or not it was meant in jest.

So, why exactly should ACORN be held responsible for these people?

[Sibirsky]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

You missed a twist, the first video people apparently knew that they were fakers but did it for the shock/laugh value. Though they could be lying about that..
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/politics/ACORN-Pulls-Its-Colbert-Card-59448747.html

Of course they're lying. What idiot would tell complete strangers to evade taxes and that they used to hook?

[Treznor]

Of course they're lying. What idiot would tell complete strangers to evade taxes and that they used to hook?

Possibly because they didn't believe anyone would be trying to entrap them so incompetently?

[Farnhamia]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

for what? how about advice of illgal matters (tax evasion), promotion of illegal activities (prostitution).

and I, for one, did not suggest investigating ACORN as a whole, but each office. because they 'shopped around' and only a few, relatively, took the bait, those offices should be investigated.

and if those workers were "joking around" then even worse. professonally, there are things one should NOT joke about.

Yep, they got fired. So did the people who registered "Mickey Mouse" as a voter in Florida. Tempest in the constantly shrinking GOP teapot.

[The_pantless_hero]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

No one is going to and no one has to; the "journalistic" tactic worked in exactly the way Fox News and their toady wanted it to - ACORN is successfully smeared and the Congress is passing bills to prevent them from getting money and helping get people to vote. The Republicans won; their smear campaign managed to get the funding and official support for a lower-class (ie, Democrat) vote gathering organization pulled.

[JuNii]

Two things:

1. The investigators were clearly trolling in a process that our legal system calls "entrapment." They went so far as to edit out the people who refused to deal with them, or otherwise portrayed ACORN in a positive light.

2. When brought to their attention, ACORN promptly fired the people who engaged in this behavior whether or not it was meant in jest.

So, why exactly should ACORN be held responsible for these people?

two replies.
1) As I said, individual offices. not ACORN as a whole. the three offices should be investigated, but until evidence points to ACORN as a whole organization is doing something hinky... those three offices should be investigated for improper/illegal activities. I've never called for an investigation on ACORN as a whole.

2) ACORN assists people in setting up businesses as well as securing Housing. the fact that they would give tips on how to evade taxes ON TAPE, even in jest, should spark an investigation for those offices.

Remember, Investigation =|= conviction.

[JuNii]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

No one is going to and no one has to; the "journalistic" tactic worked in exactly the way Fox News and their toady wanted it to - ACORN is successfully smeared and the Congress is passing bills to prevent them from getting money and helping get people to vote. The Republicans won; their smear campaign managed to get the funding and official support for a lower-class (ie, Democrat) vote gathering organization pulled.

Hence why I said it should be investigated. The only way for ACORN (who has helped alot of people) to get back those fundings is to be investigated and found innocent of those accusations.

as long as there is NO investigation, then ACORN (and those they help) will suffer.

[JuNii]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

for what? how about advice of illgal matters (tax evasion), promotion of illegal activities (prostitution).

and I, for one, did not suggest investigating ACORN as a whole, but each office. because they 'shopped around' and only a few, relatively, took the bait, those offices should be investigated.

and if those workers were "joking around" then even worse. professonally, there are things one should NOT joke about.

Yep, they got fired. So did the people who registered "Mickey Mouse" as a voter in Florida. Tempest in the constantly shrinking GOP teapot.

and they got ther fundings pulled.

so?

that's it then?

Guilty by trial by press?

by agreeing to have it end like this, then you are contributing to the tempest and not to shrinking the teapot.

[Farnhamia]

Fox News calls it ambush journalism and declares it to be a valid tactic.

it is a valid journalism tactic but I don't think it will stand up legally, but the point was to have someone officially investigate ACORN.

yeah but investigate them for WHAT?

giving out shaky tax advice? talking the the wrong type of people?

the workers were unwise to deal with this guy in any way (since he was obviously NOT a pimp)(and it would have been unwise to deal with him in any way if he really were a pimp) but nothing illegal happened. no paperwork was filled out or filed.

or did i miss a twist to this story?

for what? how about advice of illgal matters (tax evasion), promotion of illegal activities (prostitution).

and I, for one, did not suggest investigating ACORN as a whole, but each office. because they 'shopped around' and only a few, relatively, took the bait, those offices should be investigated.

and if those workers were "joking around" then even worse. professonally, there are things one should NOT joke about.

Yep, they got fired. So did the people who registered "Mickey Mouse" as a voter in Florida. Tempest in the constantly shrinking GOP teapot.

and they got ther fundings pulled.

so?

that's it then?

Guilty by trial by press?

by agreeing to have it end like this, then you are contributing to the tempest and not to shrinking the teapot.

Maybe I misunderstood you. ACORN itself turned in the people in Florida, I don't believe they were "outed" by any intrepid investigative journalists. As for the prostitution people, I don't know, I mean, instead of going along and trying to play the couple, given ACORN being a right-wing hot button, they should have said, "You know, maybe I should call the main office" or "I'll get my supervisor in" or something. Or just tossed them out with, "What, are you kidding me? No self-respecting pimp on earth would be caught dead dressed like that!"

So yeah, I agree, trial by press sucks and so does the Senate vote to stop funding for them. Which is ironic since I don't think ACORN got much direct money from the Feds anyway.

[JuNii]

Maybe I misunderstood you. ACORN itself turned in the people in Florida, I don't believe they were "outed" by any intrepid investigative journalists.

maybe we are talking about two different things. I'm referring to the tape showing ACORN employees giving advice how to disguise a proposed illegal undaged prostitution business and how to doctor tax records. not about voter fraud/regestration in Florida.

As for the prostitution people, I don't know, I mean, instead of going along and trying to play the couple, given ACORN being a right-wing hot button, they should have said, "You know, maybe I should call the main office" or "I'll get my supervisor in" or something. Or just tossed them out with, "What, are you kidding me? No self-respecting pimp on earth would be caught dead dressed like that!"

and that's what I'm talking about. even if the California office was 'punking' the team, the fact it was caught on tape warrants an investigation. they [ACORN] being quick to fire their people without the benefit of an investigation only helps fuel the fire the tape created. and the fact that some offices did turn them away... shows that it's not ACORN as a whole, but perhaps individual offices that are guilty.

So yeah, I agree, trial by press sucks and so does the Senate vote to stop funding for them. Which is ironic since I don't think ACORN got much direct money from the Feds anyway.

several millions in total. not much in the big picture, but still a lot of money. also, to get that funding back, an investigation would help.

[Ashmoria]

Maybe I misunderstood you. ACORN itself turned in the people in Florida, I don't believe they were "outed" by any intrepid investigative journalists.

maybe we are talking about two different things. I'm referring to the tape showing ACORN employees giving advice how to disguise a proposed illegal undaged prostitution business and how to doctor tax records. not about voter fraud/regestration in Florida.

As for the prostitution people, I don't know, I mean, instead of going along and trying to play the couple, given ACORN being a right-wing hot button, they should have said, "You know, maybe I should call the main office" or "I'll get my supervisor in" or something. Or just tossed them out with, "What, are you kidding me? No self-respecting pimp on earth would be caught dead dressed like that!"

and that's what I'm talking about. even if the California office was 'punking' the team, the fact it was caught on tape warrants an investigation. they [ACORN] being quick to fire their people without the benefit of an investigation only helps fuel the fire the tape created. and the fact that some offices did turn them away... shows that it's not ACORN as a whole, but perhaps individual offices that are guilty.

So yeah, I agree, trial by press sucks and so does the Senate vote to stop funding for them. Which is ironic since I don't think ACORN got much direct money from the Feds anyway.

several millions in total. not much in the big picture, but still a lot of money. also, to get that funding back, an investigation would help.

again, investigate acorn for what? giving out bad advice to "investigative reporters"?

acorn wasnt running a brothel. it wasnt soliciting the business of pimps. there is zero evidence that they were doing anything illegal. giving advice to people that you dont like isnt a good subject for an investigation.

im not even particularly happy that the workers were fired. imagine the stupidest thing YOU ever did at work and what might have happened if it had been caught on tape, illegal or not.

[JuNii]

again, investigate acorn for what? giving out bad advice to "investigative reporters"?

isn't it ACORN's 'job' to assist people with housing, taxes and business setup?

if a lawyer gave someone advice on how to break the law without getting caught, you think that's ok because the lawyer isn't doing that themselves?

acorn wasnt running a brothel. it wasnt soliciting the business of pimps. there is zero evidence that they were doing anything illegal. giving advice to people that you dont like isnt a good subject for an investigation.

ah, so giving someone advice on how to doctor your tax returns when it's your job to assist people with taxes is not wrong? gotcha.

im not even particularly happy that the workers were fired. imagine the stupidest thing YOU ever did at work and what might have happened if it had been caught on tape, illegal or not.

ok. I got written up for it. granted it wasn't as bad in appearance as what those workers did, but at least my management looked into the complaint, decided that it was a misunderstanding and both them and I understood that being written up for it was the only disciplinary action that HAD to be taken.

I had co workers show up to work drunk. they got fired.

[Maurepas]

Well, at least I know what to do about them Venezuelan Sex Slaves I purchased a while back......

[Non Aligned States]

if a lawyer gave someone advice on how to break the law without getting caught, you think that's ok because the lawyer isn't doing that themselves?

Conversely, can't the so called "journalists" and their parent organization be investigated for intent to open up a brothel? After all, the "media expose" might just be a cover. I think it's only quite fair if there is sufficient evidence to investigate ACORN, Fox should be as well, to see what falls out.

[JuNii]

if a lawyer gave someone advice on how to break the law without getting caught, you think that's ok because the lawyer isn't doing that themselves?

Conversely, can't the so called "journalists" and their parent organization be investigated for intent to open up a brothel? After all, the "media expose" might just be a cover. I think it's only quite fair if there is sufficient evidence to investigate ACORN, Fox should be as well, to see what falls out.

yes they can.

infact, I think it was reported that Baltimore is planning legal action because the two (who are NOT journalists) videotaped people without their permission.

Fox claims they only recieved the tape so yes, ACORN can file for an investigation in the Baltimore case. however, that opens a whole new can of worms with the popularity of Cell Phone videos being taken.

[Non Aligned States]

yes they can.

infact, I think it was reported that Baltimore is planning legal action because the two (who are NOT journalists) videotaped people without their permission.

Fox claims they only recieved the tape so yes, ACORN can file for an investigation in the Baltimore case. however, that opens a whole new can of worms with the popularity of Cell Phone videos being taken.

That can has already been opened since people have started taking tweeting and cell phone videos as factual proof and disregarding journalistic ethics. I say push ahead with the investigations, and maybe more than just a few journalists can be taken down. It's been going on for too long already. It's about time Fox got a slap in the face for their lack of standards. A big one.

[JuNii]

It's been going on for too long already. It's about time Fox got a slap in the face for their lack of standards. A big one.

agreed.

however, that slap better be after the investigation finds that Fox News did break the law*.

*Same with those two 'journalists', and ACORN. do the investigation and make the findings public if innocent/not guilty or begin prosecution if not.

[Ashmoria]

again, investigate acorn for what? giving out bad advice to "investigative reporters"?

isn't it ACORN's 'job' to assist people with housing, taxes and business setup?

if a lawyer gave someone advice on how to break the law without getting caught, you think that's ok because the lawyer isn't doing that themselves?

acorn wasnt running a brothel. it wasnt soliciting the business of pimps. there is zero evidence that they were doing anything illegal. giving advice to people that you dont like isnt a good subject for an investigation.

ah, so giving someone advice on how to doctor your tax returns when it's your job to assist people with taxes is not wrong? gotcha.

im not even particularly happy that the workers were fired. imagine the stupidest thing YOU ever did at work and what might have happened if it had been caught on tape, illegal or not.

ok. I got written up for it. granted it wasn't as bad in appearance as what those workers did, but at least my management looked into the complaint, decided that it was a misunderstanding and both them and I understood that being written up for it was the only disciplinary action that HAD to be taken.

I had co workers show up to work drunk. they got fired.

so you want to investigate to see if acorn always gives out good advice to people that they dont actually take on as clients (as in helping them fill out actual paperwork)? or that they always shoo away the pimps who come to them for tax advice?

as to the actual advice given out, the workers involved got fired. as i said i dont LIKE it but i understand why it was done. and why acorn was correct to fire them

unless you think that acorn is setting up a "give tax advice to criminals" business i dont see what else needs to be done. it was a setup that some workers fell for. im sure that other setups could be done that other workers might fall for. im sure that something seemy could be set up for whatever right wing equivalent might be in existence that some worker some where might fall for.

personally i would save the investigations for allegations and evidence of actual crimes.