Israel upholds citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses

[Costa Fiero]

Everyone? Oh good.

Then you should have no problem finding the post where I did so in this thread. I mean, it's not like you're offering up pure bullshit, are you?

It's not bullshit.

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

. If you participate in any sort of ethnic cleansing (even if it is for "survival"), you share something in common with the good ol' NSDAP.

And yes, I consider every state that murders and oppresses members of a race for no reason other than that their race may be continue to be the majority racial group Nazi-esque.

Nein, sie sind ein Volk. Und das Volk braucht Land als Lebensraum.

Whoopsie.

So, who was creating bullshit again?

[BlackMetal]

If you are anti-Israel, you are anti-Semitic. Israel gives Jews a homeland, so they don't get exterminated again. They tend to be hated wherever they go. Some of you are just being racist.

[Evraim]

If you are anti-Israel, you are anti-Semitic. Israel gives Jews a homeland, so they don't get exterminated again. They tend to be hated wherever they go. Some of you are just being racist.

It's alright to be anti-Zionist, so long as you're anti-nationalist in general. Of course, if you support Kurdish or Palestinian nationalism while opposing Zionism without some justification, I would consider you an anti-Semite. Nonetheless, their were ultra-Orthodox rabbis who were anti-Zionist due to their religious convictions. I support Zionism, which despite its "modern meaning" only states that the Jews ought to establish a homeland dedicated specifically for Jews. It is only logical to have a Jewish homeland since the world pretty much gave us the middle finger on several occasions and proceeded to massacre us and/or smash our property. I use "our" and "us" in an ethno-religous sense, I've never actually experienced that raw, unadultered hatred and am not Israeli. Of course, the Nazi comparisons are almost always anti-Semitic, and more than a little disrespectful. The Nazis systematically butchered eleven million people. Israel has never come close to that number and probably never will, and besides that the circumstances are much, much different.

Oh nononononnoooooooo, Israel is far from being 100% secular. It failed to adopt a Constitution in 1948 because those crazy fundies freaked at the idea of having a state not governed by the Tanakh/Talmud/etc., so it settled for basic laws adopted at the slowest pace possible instead.

They are not entirely secular, but they most certainly aren't theocrats. Until they force non-believers to pay a tax or convert, I will not consider them theocratic. Of course, if Israel became more secular, more generous with Arab Israelis, or more willing to negotiate with the Palestinians (provided all Arab states and organizations recognize Israel's right to exist), I wouldn't be particularly saddened.

[Gravlen]

Everyone? Oh good.

Then you should have no problem finding the post where I did so in this thread. I mean, it's not like you're offering up pure bullshit, are you?

It's not bullshit.

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

. If you participate in any sort of ethnic cleansing (even if it is for "survival"), you share something in common with the good ol' NSDAP.

And yes, I consider every state that murders and oppresses members of a race for no reason other than that their race may be continue to be the majority racial group Nazi-esque.

Nein, sie sind ein Volk. Und das Volk braucht Land als Lebensraum.

Whoopsie.

So, who was creating bullshit again?

You, apparently, since you failed so spectacularly to acquiesce to my request.

Everyone? Oh good.

Then you should have no problem finding the post where I did so in this thread. I mean, it's not like you're offering up pure bullshit, are you?

[Costa Fiero]

You, apparently, since you failed so spectacularly to acquiesce to my request.

Everyone? Oh good.

Then you should have no problem finding the post where I did so in this thread. I mean, it's not like you're offering up pure bullshit, are you?

I showed you that people were calling it Nazism. I really couldn't care less if you did it or not. Your behaviour doesn't excuse that others.

[Gravlen]

You, apparently, since you failed so spectacularly to acquiesce to my request.

I showed you that people were calling it Nazism. I really couldn't care less if you did it or not. Your behaviour doesn't excuse that others.

Your blatant disregard for facts has been noted, as have your concession that your justification for ignoring the people and arguments targeting the law in question in this thread is a baseless fabrication.

[Fanaglia]

My point in the paragraph you so flippantly dismissed was that not all Muslims or Arabs are "out to get" the Jews or Israel, just because their corrupt governments and a few extremist terrorists do. Had you actually clicked any of my links, you'd see that one of them is a link TO A NEWS ARTICLE ABOUT THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED BY THE SYRIAN REGIME.

Oh really?

Oh yeah, I forgot, "my type" only pays attention to human rights violations by Israel.

Sure do. Hence why this thread gets 17 or 18 pages full of nothing but vitriol directed at Israel and said supporters of Israel and my thread gets two pages of intelligent discussion.

I'm not trying to "make my argument any better" by "playing the racist card." The basis for every single one of your defenses of Israel are based on racism. When racism becomes the basis for policy decisions (or your opinion of them), your argument becomes invalid. You know who else based policy decisions on racism? The Nazis.*

If the Arab governments and people were so concerned about the treatment about human rights, why are Palestinian refugees mistreated in Lebanon and Syria? This is a question that you failed to answer.

*By saying that you are like a Nazi, I am not implying that you argue as you do because of the Nazis, but rather that your allowing of racism to dictate your opinions on political policy makes you like a Nazi. And before you say "Oh, but Iran makes racist policy decisions all the time," I have two things to say. Firstly, you would be right in saying that, and thus Ahmadinejad and the Iranian government are also like Nazis. Secondly, as several of us have said before, just because country A does something bad doesn't mean it's OK for country B to do the same.

So, because I point out something which you didn't see = racism. It's the only card you play when your hand is redundant.

And, by the same logic, do the human rights abuses of various African countries mean black people don't give a shit about human rights? Or Asians?

You want to argue the contrary?

1. Yeah, try reading for once. It keeps you from spouting ignorant nonsense. And by "reading," I mean process the words and sentences as complete thoughts and then process them in your mind. This is how humans learn.

2. As someone else said before, no one cares about Qatar and most of the so-called intelligent discussion was about the irrelevance of Qatar in international politics.

3. Yup, all Muslims and Arabs mistreat Palestinian refugees. Every last one of them.

4. What exactly did you point out that I didn't see? Whatever it was, saying "Everyone who is [insert a particular nationality or race] is [insert disparaging comment]" is pretty much textbook racism. While the racism of a particular individual does not automatically discount everything he/she has to say (despite what many creationists will tell you about Darwin), it does have a certain ability to skew the individual's opinion of whether or not a certain piece of legislation is, in fact, racist. That was the original intent of this thread, if you remember.

5. I don't even have anything to say in response to this. It's just...so...

I showed you that people were calling it Nazism. I really couldn't care less if you did it or not. Your behaviour doesn't excuse that others.

So...his (or her -- sorry, don't really know Gravlen) behavior doesn't excuse the others who are posting in this thread...on the other hand, the behavior of Syria, Lebanon, and Saudi Arabia does excuse the behavior of Israel? Am I getting that right?

[Costa Fiero]

1. Yeah, try reading for once. It keeps you from spouting ignorant nonsense. And by "reading," I mean process the words and sentences as complete thoughts and then process them in your mind. This is how humans learn.

Now now. No need to act like a prick.

2. As someone else said before, no one cares about Qatar and most of the so-called intelligent discussion was about the irrelevance of Qatar in international politics.

And that's the main issue I have with you people. Syria can murder as many people as it wants and no one gives a shit. Israel bans Palestinians from marrying Israeli citizens (like other countries in the world which was already explain in the first page had you bothered to look) and it's like the end of the fucking planet. Shouldn't you be more concerned with actual human rights violations?

3. Yup, all Muslims and Arabs mistreat Palestinian refugees. Every last one of them.

Any evidence to claim the contrary? Because I can prove Palestinians are mistreated in Syria and Lebanon. And your idea that the Arabs/Muslims are against Israel because of human rights concerns is downright laughable. It's moronic. Syria condemns Israel for Cast Lead and then goes and does what its doing now (which no ones cares about), Lebanon puts Palestinians into ghettos or tries to get rid of them (which no one wants to know about) and Turkey condemns Israel for building settlements in the West Bank and yet continues to facilitate the relocation of people from Anatolia into Northern Cyprus (which no one knows about).

Quite frankly, your silly idea that I'm being racist and that what I am saying is untrue is utter bullshit.

4. What exactly did you point out that I didn't see? Whatever it was, saying "Everyone who is [insert a particular nationality or race] is [insert disparaging comment]" is pretty much textbook racism. While the racism of a particular individual does not automatically discount everything he/she has to say (despite what many creationists will tell you about Darwin), it does have a certain ability to skew the individual's opinion of whether or not a certain piece of legislation is, in fact, racist. That was the original intent of this thread, if you remember.

Yadda yadda yadda. Look, I don't have much time for your.....er.....whatever it is you call this (absolute shit might fit the bill). Come back when you've pulled your head out.

[Evraim]

1. Yeah, try reading for once. It keeps you from spouting ignorant nonsense. And by "reading," I mean process the words and sentences as complete thoughts and then process them in your mind. This is how humans learn.

Now now. No need to act like a prick.

2. As someone else said before, no one cares about Qatar and most of the so-called intelligent discussion was about the irrelevance of Qatar in international politics.

And that's the main issue I have with you people. Syria can murder as many people as it wants and no one gives a shit. Israel bans Palestinians from marrying Israeli citizens (like other countries in the world which was already explain in the first page had you bothered to look) and it's like the end of the fucking planet. Shouldn't you be more concerned with actual human rights violations?

3. Yup, all Muslims and Arabs mistreat Palestinian refugees. Every last one of them.

Any evidence to claim the contrary? Because I can prove Palestinians are mistreated in Syria and Lebanon. And your idea that the Arabs/Muslims are against Israel because of human rights concerns is downright laughable. It's moronic. Syria condemns Israel for Cast Lead and then goes and does what its doing now (which no ones cares about), Lebanon puts Palestinians into ghettos or tries to get rid of them (which no one wants to know about) and Turkey condemns Israel for building settlements in the West Bank and yet continues to facilitate the relocation of people from Anatolia into Northern Cyprus (which no one knows about).

Quite frankly, your silly idea that I'm being racist and that what I am saying is untrue is utter bullshit.

4. What exactly did you point out that I didn't see? Whatever it was, saying "Everyone who is [insert a particular nationality or race] is [insert disparaging comment]" is pretty much textbook racism. While the racism of a particular individual does not automatically discount everything he/she has to say (despite what many creationists will tell you about Darwin), it does have a certain ability to skew the individual's opinion of whether or not a certain piece of legislation is, in fact, racist. That was the original intent of this thread, if you remember.

Yadda yadda yadda. Look, I don't have much time for your.....er.....whatever it is you call this (absolute shit might fit the bill). Come back when you've pulled your head out.

I would respectfully implore the both of you to desist from petty insults and personal slights, and focus on the arguments. If you persist with such behavior, I doubt the moderators will view you kindly. Besides, we ought to be mature enough to not act like petulant little eight year olds, shouldn't we? You aren't exactly at THAT level yet, but things do devolve quite rapidly. The moderators are generally rather buisy, and I doubt they would like another flame war to break up.

That said, I suppose I ought to address the assertions now. What Qatar did was a feeble but admirable gesture. I suppose we could leave it at that. I wish everybody would do more to liberate and/or comfort ALL of the suppressed and impoverished people around the world. The Kurds, the Koreans, the Somalis, the Libyans, the Yemenis, the Chinese, the Syrians, and countless others. I disagree with this law, but it most certainly isn't the most tyrannical thing we've seen. China is easily worse than Israel. Saudi Arabia is easily worse than Israel. Russia is easily worse than Israel. When I think of democracy in the Middle East, my first thoughts are turned towards Turkey and Israel. Both of them have problems with the Kurds and Palestinians respectively, but they're making a start. If anything, I would argue that until recently Turkey treated their minorities much worse than Israel.

Also, you both have an adequate point on the human rights issues. Quite a few ordinary Arab citizens living in the Middle East do not care about human rights of any kind. Quite a few Americans don't care about human rights for that matter. It's disgusting either way, when it's deliberate. Sometimes, people are wrapped up in their own problems and cannot exactly be blamed for not noticing the world around them. The Arab governments are usually too preoccupied with their blind hatred of Israel or their internal troubles to examine the Palestinian-Israeli conflict with an open mind. If both sides put their prejudices and presumptions aside peace would be possible, but there's too much anger and fear on either side of the aisle.

[Jordan]

You, apparently, since you failed so spectacularly to acquiesce to my request.

I showed you that people were calling it Nazism. I really couldn't care less if you did it or not. Your behaviour doesn't excuse that others.

Wrong. People were comparing it do Nazism.

[Jordan]

If you are anti-Israel, you are anti-Semitic. Israel gives Jews a homeland, so they don't get exterminated again. They tend to be hated wherever they go. Some of you are just being racist.

No, you're not.

There's a difference between being against a nation and being against a race.

Are Jews hated in America? In Korea, in Japan? No.

If a foreign country took over your own country, and then took away your land to create a country for another people, how would you feel?

[North Calaveras]

I showed you that people were calling it Nazism. I really couldn't care less if you did it or not. Your behaviour doesn't excuse that others.

Wrong. People were comparing it do Nazism.

meh there is a thin line.

[Jordan]

Wrong. People were comparing it do Nazism.

meh there is a thin line.

There's a big difference.

Sharing things in common with something is much different than actually being the thing you're being compared to.

[Evraim]

If you are anti-Israel, you are anti-Semitic. Israel gives Jews a homeland, so they don't get exterminated again. They tend to be hated wherever they go. Some of you are just being racist.

No, you're not.

There's a difference between being against a nation and being against a race.

Are Jews hated in America? In Korea, in Japan? No.

If a foreign country took over your own country, and then took away your land to create a country for another people, how would you feel?

Palestine never existed as an independent nation. In fact, it came into existence at approximately the same time as Israel, 1948. It was their refusal to accept the United Nations partition plan that ignited what was essentially a civil war that had been suppressed by the British government until that point. Of course, in all fairness, the partition plan was created haphazardly and divided the mandate in such a way as to be beneficial to the Israelis and a poor deal to the Palestinians, but that isn't Israel's fault so much. If you really want to blame somebody, I would put the majority of the responsibility for the partition on the shoulders of Europeans who created a situation in which some form of conflict became nearly impossible. That said, I believe that after the 1948 War the Arab states bear the majority of the blame for what happened excluding the settlements in the West Bank.

meh there is a thin line.

There's a big difference.

Sharing things in common with something is much different than actually being the thing you're being compared to.

Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is asinine at best for reasons I shouldn't have to go into. Furthermore, it isn't exactly a valid comparison. Finally, why is Israel usually said to be like Nazi Germany? Why not Cambodia or Spain or the Saracen States? It is very difficult to believe that such a comparison is not intended to offend people who lost family members in the concentration camps. A third of the worlds Jews gone in the span of twenty years due mostly to German, Russian, and Arab hatred. However, a large number of countries participated, even the United States had a National Socialist Party. It is deceitful to claim that Israel is any more like Nazi Germany than a number of other countries.

[Jordan]

No, you're not.

There's a difference between being against a nation and being against a race.

Are Jews hated in America? In Korea, in Japan? No.

If a foreign country took over your own country, and then took away your land to create a country for another people, how would you feel?

Palestine never existed as an independent nation. In fact, it came into existence at approximately the same time as Israel, 1948. It was their refusal to accept the United Nations partition plan that ignited what was essentially a civil war that had been suppressed by the British government until that point. Of course, in all fairness, the partition plan was created haphazardly and divided the mandate in such a way as to be beneficial to the Israelis and a poor deal to the Palestinians, but that isn't Israel's fault so much. If you really want to blame somebody, I would put the majority of the responsibility for the partition on the shoulders of Europeans who created a situation in which some form of conflict became nearly impossible. That said, I believe that after the 1948 War the Arab states bear the majority of the blame for what happened excluding the settlements in the West Bank.

Although Palestine did not exist as an independent nation before that, it still existed as a nation. The land had long been Arab land, and obviously the Palestinians would hate to see their land divided and given away to some other nation of a foreign ethnicity and culture.

I was justifying why someone would have been against the creation of the Israeli state.

[North Calaveras]

No, you're not.

There's a difference between being against a nation and being against a race.

Are Jews hated in America? In Korea, in Japan? No.

If a foreign country took over your own country, and then took away your land to create a country for another people, how would you feel?

Palestine never existed as an independent nation. In fact, it came into existence at approximately the same time as Israel, 1948. It was their refusal to accept the United Nations partition plan that ignited what was essentially a civil war that had been suppressed by the British government until that point. Of course, in all fairness, the partition plan was created haphazardly and divided the mandate in such a way as to be beneficial to the Israelis and a poor deal to the Palestinians, but that isn't Israel's fault so much. If you really want to blame somebody, I would put the majority of the responsibility for the partition on the shoulders of Europeans who created a situation in which some form of conflict became nearly impossible. That said, I believe that after the 1948 War the Arab states bear the majority of the blame for what happened excluding the settlements in the West Bank.

There's a big difference.

Sharing things in common with something is much different than actually being the thing you're being compared to.

Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is asinine at best for reasons I shouldn't have to go into. Furthermore, it isn't exactly a valid comparison. Finally, why is Israel usually said to be like Nazi Germany? Why not Cambodia or Spain or the Saracen States? It is very difficult to believe that such a comparison is not intended to offend people who lost family members in the concentration camps. A third of the worlds Jews gone in the span of twenty years due mostly to German, Russian, and Arab hatred. However, a large number of countries participated, even the United States had a National Socialist Party. It is deceitful to claim that Israel is any more like Nazi Germany than a number of other countries.

I like this guy, he makes sense ^

[San-Silvacian]

If you are anti-Israel, you are anti-Semitic. Israel gives Jews a homeland, so they don't get exterminated again. They tend to be hated wherever they go. Some of you are just being racist.

Reasoning please.

I don't like Israel, but I enjoy the Jewish faith.

[Jordan]

There's a big difference.

Sharing things in common with something is much different than actually being the thing you're being compared to.

Comparing Israel to Nazi Germany is asinine at best for reasons I shouldn't have to go into. Furthermore, it isn't exactly a valid comparison. Finally, why is Israel usually said to be like Nazi Germany? Why not Cambodia or Spain or the Saracen States? It is very difficult to believe that such a comparison is not intended to offend people who lost family members in the concentration camps. A third of the worlds Jews gone in the span of twenty years due mostly to German, Russian, and Arab hatred. However, a large number of countries participated, even the United States had a National Socialist Party. It is deceitful to claim that Israel is any more like Nazi Germany than a number of other countries.

How is it asinine? Israel settlements can be seen as similar to Lebensraum, and the denial of citizenship based on ethnicity is certainly racist.

I'd you to explain your reasons.

Nazi Germany is a very well known example of racism and territorial expansion for a certain ethnic group. Who knows about what Cambodia, Spain, or the Saracen States did? Hardly anyone.

It is not meant to offend, it is simply meant to be saying that the Israeli government is hypocritical in criticizing the actions of the Nazis, while at the same time sharing some similar policies.

The United States government, however, did not participate, and the American Nazi Party is a very small and hated minority. Does America send settlers into Canada to help justify a claim that Canada is American land?

[The Alma Mater]

Finally, why is Israel usually said to be like Nazi Germany? Why not Cambodia or Spain or the Saracen States? It is very difficult to believe that such a comparison is not intended to offend people who lost family members in the concentration camps. A third of the worlds Jews gone in the span of twenty years due mostly to German, Russian, and Arab hatred. However, a large number of countries participated, even the United States had a National Socialist Party. It is deceitful to claim that Israel is any more like Nazi Germany than a number of other countries.

Not many of those countries have a state ideology that teaches that people of a certain race can be considered "ubermenchen" or "untermenschen" though
True - the Jews and the nazis somewhat disagreed on who exactly the ubers and the unters were. But the underlying thoughts are scaringly similar - as most of the underlying thoughts of Judaism and Nazism are.

This irony always amuses me btw. And then it makes me cry.

[Evraim]

How is it asinine? Israel settlements can be seen as similar to Lebensraum, and the denial of citizenship based on ethnicity is certainly racist.

I'd you to explain your reasons.

Nazi Germany is a very well known example of racism and territorial expansion for a certain ethnic group. Who knows about what Cambodia, Spain, or the Saracen States did? Hardly anyone.

It is not meant to offend, it is simply meant to be saying that the Israeli government is hypocritical in criticizing the actions of the Nazis, while at the same time sharing some similar policies.

The United States government, however, did not participate, and the American Nazi Party is a very small and hated minority. Does America send settlers into Canada to help justify a claim that Canada is American land?

My apologies, but I'll confess you have made me relatively angry- even if that was not your intention in writing this post. Permit me to provide a definition of Lebensraum before proceeding.

"Lebensraum an idea proposed by Adolf Hitler in his 'Mein Kampf'. It is translated in English as 'living space', and Hitler proposed that Germany ought to expand into Eastern Europe in order to acquire agricultural land and and raw materials. It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class."

I shall start by acknowledging that Jews are settling in the West Bank at an alarming rate and that these settlements often force Palestinians further East or into slums. However, the similarities cease there. Israel has not made it a state policy to kill, deport, or enslave Arabs. Also, I would assert that only the more radical elements of Israeli society consider Arabs to be inherently "inferior" to themselves. Finally, the last time I checked Israel has attempted to provide aid for the Palestinian State, permitted relief materials to reach them after passing through security, and has offered to halt settlements in exchange for lasting peace (granted with specific conditions which most Palestinians consider unacceptable). For all intents purposes, Israel and Palestine have been at war for sixty years. Some people are probably quite tired of negotiating on both sides. However, the Israelis are not butchering the Palestinians at the same rate nor with the same purposeful attention as the Nazi murdered the Slavs. There is no hypocrisy because the comparison is forced, as I stated previously.

Mein Kampf was a best seller in the United States for a brief time, and the bigotted views held by many Americans towards Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, and East Asians ought to be well-know. Would you like me to put together a list of organizations which terrorized minority communities, sometimes with government assistance? Of course, America's role was not quite so large as that of Germany or Russia, but it was merely an example to illustrate just how far anti-Semitic views had travelled. Europe (especially) and the Middle East were obviously much worse. If I had been a Holocaust survivor, I would have settled in the mandate. Honestly, you can understand why, can't you? It was a betrayal, a terrible, almost unforgiveable betrayal. Jews had lived there for centuries, and many maintained a Jewish identity alongside a German, Russian, Polish, etc. identity. All of the sudden, everybody becomes a hate-filled animal foaming at the mouth and demanding our blood. Our neighbors can't protect us, and some even assist the butchers. Nowhere is safe. Men, women, children simply disappeared. A whole generation evaporated like smoke, and then some people have the unmitigated temerity to say it didn't happen!

Also, I am quite worried for the children of the world if they cannot recall the European and American exterminations of the natives, the atrocities commited by the Islamic hordes in their early years (prior to the rise of a more tolerant government), or the killing fields of Cambodia. To be quite honest, the Israelis have conducted themselves in a manner much more respectable than any of these entities. To compare Israel to Nazi Germany, it's a farce, a slap in the face, and entirely nonsensical considering exactly how different they are. Of course, Israel isn't anywhere near perfect. If they stopped settlements and increased the liberties of Israeli Arabs (not Palestinians, they do not qualify as Israelis), they would be quite tolerant by most people's standards.

Finally, why is Israel usually said to be like Nazi Germany? Why not Cambodia or Spain or the Saracen States? It is very difficult to believe that such a comparison is not intended to offend people who lost family members in the concentration camps. A third of the worlds Jews gone in the span of twenty years due mostly to German, Russian, and Arab hatred. However, a large number of countries participated, even the United States had a National Socialist Party. It is deceitful to claim that Israel is any more like Nazi Germany than a number of other countries.

Not many of those countries have a state ideology that teaches that people of a certain race can be considered "ubermenchen" or "untermenschen" though
True - the Jews and the nazis somewhat disagreed on who exactly the ubers and the unters were. But the underlying thoughts are scaringly similar - as most of the underlying thoughts of Judaism and Nazism are.

This irony always amuses me btw. And then it makes me cry.

Neither does Israel coincidentally, nor do the Jews in general. I suspect you're trolling or entirely ignorant of Jewish theology. And it isn't amusing, not in the slightest.

[Costa Fiero]

Wrong. People were comparing it do Nazism.

I think most people are sugarcoating it for what the really think about Israel. Just like they sugarcoat terrorists with "freedom fighters".

[Jordan]

How is it asinine? Israel settlements can be seen as similar to Lebensraum, and the denial of citizenship based on ethnicity is certainly racist.

I'd you to explain your reasons.

Nazi Germany is a very well known example of racism and territorial expansion for a certain ethnic group. Who knows about what Cambodia, Spain, or the Saracen States did? Hardly anyone.

It is not meant to offend, it is simply meant to be saying that the Israeli government is hypocritical in criticizing the actions of the Nazis, while at the same time sharing some similar policies.

The United States government, however, did not participate, and the American Nazi Party is a very small and hated minority. Does America send settlers into Canada to help justify a claim that Canada is American land?

My apologies, but I'll confess you have made me relatively angry- even if that was not your intention in writing this post. Permit me to provide a definition of Lebensraum before proceeding.

Yes, it indeed wasn't my intention, but if this made you angry, I'm sorry to say that numerous others share this view.

"Lebensraum an idea proposed by Adolf Hitler in his 'Mein Kampf'. It is translated in English as 'living space', and Hitler proposed that Germany ought to expand into Eastern Europe in order to acquire agricultural land and and raw materials. It was the stated policy of the Nazis to kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Russian and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic peoples. The entire urban population was to be exterminated by starvation, thus creating an agricultural surplus to feed Germany and allowing their replacement by a German upper class."

I shall start by acknowledging that Jews are settling in the West Bank at an alarming rate and that these settlements often force Palestinians further East or into slums. However, the similarities cease there. Israel has not made it a state policy to kill, deport, or enslave Arabs. Also, I would assert that only the more radical elements of Israeli society consider Arabs to be inherently "inferior" to themselves. Finally, the last time I checked Israel has attempted to provide aid for the Palestinian State, permitted relief materials to reach them after passing through security, and has offered to halt settlements in exchange for lasting peace (granted with specific conditions which most Palestinians consider unacceptable). For all intents purposes, Israel and Palestine have been at war for sixty years. Some people are probably quite tired of negotiating on both sides. However, the Israelis are not butchering the Palestinians at the same rate nor with the same purposeful attention as the Nazi murdered the Slavs. There is no hypocrisy because the comparison is forced, as I stated previously.

Indeed they haven't. They however support these settlements in order to increase their living space at the expense of Palestinians and also in order to strengthen their claims to the area.

Although they aren't butchering them at the same rate or with the same purposeful attention does not mean however that the Israeli state does not share racism in common with the Nazis by trying to make Israel remain a Jewish-majority state, as the Nazis hoped to make their country more German.

As I said we are making comparisons, not saying that they did exactly the same things nor that they are Nazis.

Mein Kampf was a best seller in the United States for a brief time, and the bigotted views held by many Americans towards Blacks, Jews, Hispanics, and East Asians ought to be well-know. Would you like me to put together a list of organizations which terrorized minority communities, sometimes with government assistance? Of course, America's role was not quite so large as that of Germany or Russia, but it was merely an example to illustrate just how far anti-Semitic views had travelled. Europe (especially) and the Middle East were obviously much worse. If I had been a Holocaust survivor, I would have settled in the mandate. Honestly, you can understand why, can't you? It was a betrayal, a terrible, almost unforgiveable betrayal. Jews had lived there for centuries, and many maintained a Jewish identity alongside a German, Russian, Polish, etc. identity. All of the sudden, everybody becomes a hate-filled animal foaming at the mouth and demanding our blood. Our neighbors can't protect us, and some even assist the butchers. Nowhere is safe. Men, women, children simply disappeared. A whole generation evaporated like smoke, and then some people have the unmitigated temerity to say it didn't happen!

Around when?

Bigoted views against blacks and Hispanics I'm well aware of, but I've never seen racism against Jews or East Asians at all in all the years I've lived in the United States.

Sure! I'd love to know. And especially ones against Jews. But in the modern day please (but I'd like historical ones too for other reasons). The rest doesn't really have much to do with this part of the argument here.

Also, I am quite worried for the children of the world if they cannot recall the European and American exterminations of the natives, the atrocities commited by the Islamic hordes in their early years (prior to the rise of a more tolerant government), or the killing fields of Cambodia. To be quite honest, the Israelis have conducted themselves in a manner much more respectable than any of these entities. To compare Israel to Nazi Germany, it's a farce, a slap in the face, and entirely nonsensical considering exactly how different they are. Of course, Israel isn't anywhere near perfect. If they stopped settlements and increased the liberties of Israeli Arabs (not Palestinians, they do not qualify as Israelis), they would be quite tolerant by most people's standards.

People do quite remember the European and American extermination of the Native Americans. I've never read about the atrocities commited by the Islamic hordes in their early years. Although I do know about the killing fields of Cambodia, most people sadly have never even heard of the country.

And people of course would be more surprised to find out that there are similarities between Israel and Nazi Germany.

Yes, but they aren't stopping the settlements, and they haven't increased the liberties of Israeli Arabs.[/quote]

[Jordan]

Wrong. People were comparing it do Nazism.

I think most people are sugarcoating it for what the really think about Israel. Just like they sugarcoat terrorists with "freedom fighters".

Huh?

[Gauthier]

I think most people are sugarcoating it for what the really think about Israel. Just like they sugarcoat terrorists with "freedom fighters".

Huh?

The classic "If You Hate Israel You Hate All Jews" talking point.

[Southern Patriots]

If you are anti-Israel, you are anti-Semitic. Israel gives Jews a homeland, so they don't get exterminated again. They tend to be hated wherever they go. Some of you are just being racist.

That's just ignorant, and fairly moronic to say.