Israel upholds citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses

[Costa Fiero]

No, it doesn't, really. Either Israel is generally corruption free, or it's not. A comparison with neighbouring countries is irrelevant in that regard.

Though I am amazed at your determination at using "others are worse" as an excuse. Do you always do that? Would you call a serial rapist a "generally good guy" because he's sharing a cell with a serial killer, and in comparison is not as bad?

It's not an excuse. It is a fact. But you people don't seem to realise this. According to people like you, Israel is inherently evil no matter what it does, and nothing is said about other countries which have committed far worse atrocities.

Everyone is so up in arms about this. Yet when a thread posted about the atrocities being committed against people in Syria, for example, hardly anyone turns out to express their disgust. People actually go into a thread like that defending the actions of a dictator.

Seriously people, priorities need to be sorted.

[Costa Fiero]

To NC: I get that Israel isn't the worst offender in the Middle East - and while I do keep things in perspective and don't absolve any of these states for their transgressions, Israel treats Palestinians like shit, and they don't deserve to be treated like shit, anymore than the average Israeli deserves to be the victim of a terror attack.

This is something I can actually agree with.

[New Unsociety]

Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. Yep, not a racist/theocratic state at all.

Soon, after a few more dictators are overthrown, it will be the only non-democracy (unless Egypt and Libya go to theocracy).

[North Calaveras]

Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. Yep, not a racist/theocratic state at all.

Soon, after a few more dictators are overthrown, it will be the only non-democracy (unless Egypt and Libya go to theocracy).

id rather live in a benevlont dictatorship than a horrible Islamic republic

[Xdarklord0012x]

Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. Yep, not a racist/theocratic state at all.

Soon, after a few more dictators are overthrown, it will be the only non-democracy (unless Egypt and Libya go to theocracy).

ya but the dictators prolly wont be overhtrown for like years lol

[Ertae]

So, we've now confirmed that Israeli Jews are the Middle Eastern equivalent to American rednecks? "them AYrabs gunna KEEL USS!!"

By all means everyone, let's breach civil rights in the name of "national defense".

[North Calaveras]

So, we've now confirmed that Israeli Jews are the Middle Eastern equivalent to American rednecks? "them AYrabs gunna KEEL USS!!"

By all means everyone, let's breach civil rights in the name of "national defense".

See what I mean guys?

[Fanaglia]

But Israel isn't extremist. The state is democratic. It is secular. It is generally corruption free and it doesn't have a religion that kills people for converting to other religions, nor delcares war in the name of God.

I'm not denying that there are some extremists in Israel (because denying it outright would be stupid), but Israel as a state and as a people are not the extremists your type loves to portray them as.

I'm not talking about the Israeli people. I'm talking about Israel, as in Israel's government. Is Netanyahu an extremist? You could argue that, as you could for much of the rest of government and the Knesset.

I'd also like to know exactly what you think "my type" is.

Not all Muslims, Palestinians, or Arabs kill people for converting to other religions or declare war in the name of God, or are in any way the extremists your type loves to portray them as. (You see what I did there?)

You're not getting the point. Not every genocide is because of what the Nazis did nor is every genocide related to Nazi policy. I'm not saying it is OK at all. But I think it is absolutely stupid to say genocide=Nazism. If people want to be ignorant and make that comparison, that's their perogative. But I don't want to equate that ethnic violence in Nigeria or Rwanda is the result of the Holocaust.

No one ever said ethnic violence in any of those countries was because of the Nazis. Correlation is not causation. That would be like, say, I was in an argument defending Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky by saying, "Well, JFK had an affair with Marilyn Monroe while in office and no one raised much of a fuss then." Using the logic you applied to my "If you commit genocide, you are like a Nazi" comment, my Bill Clinton/JFK comment could be construed as meaning that Bill banged Monica because John shagged Marilyn. It doesn't work like that.

So Human Rights Groups are assholes for finding out that Israel oppresses Palestinians and other Arabs?

No, but they do direct more reports and other stuff against Israel because the have the ability to conduct their research freely. Something you can't do in, say, Syria.

Well, if Israel is supposed to be this non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state, shouldn't they be held to a higher standard than, say, Syria? You make it sound like we're picking on Israel out of some sort of malice towards their existence or something. People get so fired up about Israel because they're supposed to be a non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state and because they're one of our closest allies. Corruption in Syria or Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Iran isn't news or something that is debated frequently because it's common knowledge. Israel, on the other hand, has countless of "your type" (see? I did it again!) making up excuses for them no matter what they do.



EDIT: This is the quote I was looking for in that last bit I wrote (I knew I saw it here somewhere):

It's not an excuse. It is a fact. But you people don't seem to realise this. According to people like you, Israel is inherently evil no matter what it does, and nothing is said about other countries which have committed far worse atrocities.

Everyone is so up in arms about this. Yet when a thread posted about the atrocities being committed against people in Syria, for example, hardly anyone turns out to express their disgust. People actually go into a thread like that defending the actions of a dictator.

Seriously people, priorities need to be sorted.

[Gauthier]

So, we've now confirmed that Israeli Jews are the Middle Eastern equivalent to American rednecks? "them AYrabs gunna KEEL USS!!"

By all means everyone, let's breach civil rights in the name of "national defense".

See what I mean guys?

It's amazing how you act like you're being persecuted.

One guy on a forum makes a personal comment on how he thinks Israeli is treating Palestinians like shit and that of course according to you justifies Israel continuing to treat Palestinians like shit.

If it ever came out that Israel started summarily executing Palestinians you'd come up with an apology to justify that too.

[EnragedMaldivians]

See what I mean guys?

It's amazing how you act like you're being persecuted.

One guy on a forum makes a personal comment on how he thinks Israeli is treating Palestinians like shit and that of course according to you justifies Israel continuing to treat Palestinians like shit.

If it ever came out that Israel started summarily executing Palestinians you'd come up with an apology to justify that too.

I don't just think it. It's true.

[North Calaveras]

See what I mean guys?

It's amazing how you act like you're being persecuted.

One guy on a forum makes a personal comment on how he thinks Israeli is treating Palestinians like shit and that of course according to you justifies Israel continuing to treat Palestinians like shit.

If it ever came out that Israel started summarily executing Palestinians you'd come up with an apology to justify that too.

I'm not being persecuted, israel is, I'm an American

If Palestinians execute Israelis then id say that would be fine for them to do the same. Now if Israelis were executing Palestinians and the Palestinians were doing nothing then I would be up in arms against Israel.

[EnragedMaldivians]

It's amazing how you act like you're being persecuted.

One guy on a forum makes a personal comment on how he thinks Israeli is treating Palestinians like shit and that of course according to you justifies Israel continuing to treat Palestinians like shit.

If it ever came out that Israel started summarily executing Palestinians you'd come up with an apology to justify that too.

I'm not being persecuted, israel is, I'm an American

If Palestinians execute Israelis then id say that would be fine for them to do the same. Now if Israelis were executing Palestinians and the Palestinians were doing nothing then I would be up in arms against Israel.

Alright NC, let me ask you something. I'm genuinely curious.

Say we take an average Palestinian individual; do you think s/he would be a decent human being that doesn't deserve to be treated like shit?

[North Calaveras]

I'm not being persecuted, israel is, I'm an American

If Palestinians execute Israelis then id say that would be fine for them to do the same. Now if Israelis were executing Palestinians and the Palestinians were doing nothing then I would be up in arms against Israel.

Alright NC, let me ask you something. I'm genuinely curious.

Say we take an average Palestinian individual; do you think s/he would be a decent human being that doesn't deserve to be treated like shit?

Thank Allah people want to learn how I think instead of assuming things!

It really depends, does your average Palestinian support shariah law and pushing their religion on others?

I really want to say " Hey they are just normal guys" but i can't.

[Costa Fiero]

No one ever said ethnic violence in any of those countries was because of the Nazis. Correlation is not causation. That would be like, say, I was in an argument defending Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky by saying, "Well, JFK had an affair with Marilyn Monroe while in office and no one raised much of a fuss then." Using the logic you applied to my "If you commit genocide, you are like a Nazi" comment, my Bill Clinton/JFK comment could be construed as meaning that Bill banged Monica because John shagged Marilyn. It doesn't work like that.

But people have been saying that genocide=Nazism. That the idea of a superior race which leads to genocide, or even racial discrimination is Nazism. I said it wasn't like that but apparently, you missed it.

Well, if Israel is supposed to be this non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state, shouldn't they be held to a higher standard than, say, Syria? You make it sound like we're picking on Israel out of some sort of malice towards their existence or something. People get so fired up about Israel because they're supposed to be a non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state and because they're one of our closest allies. Corruption in Syria or Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Iran isn't news or something that is debated frequently because it's common knowledge. Israel, on the other hand, has countless of "your type" (see? I did it again!) making up excuses for them no matter what they do.

People do hold it in a higher regard than places like Egypt and Syria. People only debate Israel because of their treatment of Palestinians. I get fired up because people don't give a shit about how people are treated elsewhere and yet are willing to dish out the vitriol and labels against Israel when they are so complacent about other countries.

[Saint Jade IV]

And the idea for a pure German state goes back beyond the rise of Hitler to power, it doesn't make it any less hypocritical. The Holocaust was what they used to gain public sympathy and support for the move, to pretend otherwise is foolish.

That's what I was meaning. The idea of a Jewish state goes back to the foundation of a Jewish National Fund and the World Zionist Organisation, which were active in the late 19th-early 20th centuries. The National Fund brought land off Palestinians (and the British) for Jews to settle on. The Holocaust only made it more of a necessity rather than a dream.

How did the Holocaust make it a necessity?

[Xdarklord0012x]

No one ever said ethnic violence in any of those countries was because of the Nazis. Correlation is not causation. That would be like, say, I was in an argument defending Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky by saying, "Well, JFK had an affair with Marilyn Monroe while in office and no one raised much of a fuss then." Using the logic you applied to my "If you commit genocide, you are like a Nazi" comment, my Bill Clinton/JFK comment could be construed as meaning that Bill banged Monica because John shagged Marilyn. It doesn't work like that.

But people have been saying that genocide=Nazism. That the idea of a superior race which leads to genocide, or even racial discrimination is Nazism. I said it wasn't like that but apparently, you missed it.

but nazis are like fascsist that kill jews

[North Calaveras]

But people have been saying that genocide=Nazism. That the idea of a superior race which leads to genocide, or even racial discrimination is Nazism. I said it wasn't like that but apparently, you missed it.

but nazis are like fascsist that kill jews

they are not the exact same thing

Nazism is a branch of fascism

fascism in itself isn't genocidal

and why is Nicholas Cage staring at me

[Xdarklord0012x]

but nazis are like fascsist that kill jews

they are not the exact same thing

Nazism is a branch of fascism

fascism in itself isn't genocidal

and why is Nicholas Cage staring at me

i thought fascism had to do wit genocide... i guess not.

and because nicholas cage is awesome!

[North Calaveras]

they are not the exact same thing

Nazism is a branch of fascism

fascism in itself isn't genocidal

and why is Nicholas Cage staring at me

i thought fascism had to do wit genocide... i guess not.

and because nicholas cage is awesome!

No, Nazism( A form of Fascism) has to do with Genocide

Fascism itself has no such tenets.

I keep thinking his eyes are glowing and hes going to do something weird to me...

[Fanaglia]

No one ever said ethnic violence in any of those countries was because of the Nazis. Correlation is not causation. That would be like, say, I was in an argument defending Bill Clinton's affair with Monica Lewinsky by saying, "Well, JFK had an affair with Marilyn Monroe while in office and no one raised much of a fuss then." Using the logic you applied to my "If you commit genocide, you are like a Nazi" comment, my Bill Clinton/JFK comment could be construed as meaning that Bill banged Monica because John shagged Marilyn. It doesn't work like that.

But people have been saying that genocide=Nazism. That the idea of a superior race which leads to genocide, or even racial discrimination is Nazism. I said it wasn't like that but apparently, you missed it.

No, people have been saying that genocide because of a belief in a superior race is like Nazism. Show me a quote that says otherwise.

Well, if Israel is supposed to be this non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state, shouldn't they be held to a higher standard than, say, Syria? You make it sound like we're picking on Israel out of some sort of malice towards their existence or something. People get so fired up about Israel because they're supposed to be a non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state and because they're one of our closest allies. Corruption in Syria or Egypt or Saudi Arabia or Iran isn't news or something that is debated frequently because it's common knowledge. Israel, on the other hand, has countless of "your type" (see? I did it again!) making up excuses for them no matter what they do.

People do hold it in a higher regard than places like Egypt and Syria. People only debate Israel because of their treatment of Palestinians. I get fired up because people don't give a shit about how people are treated elsewhere and yet are willing to dish out the vitriol and labels against Israel when they are so complacent about other countries.

Let me use another analogy, since my phrasing before was obviously inadequate and I don't know a simpler way to phrase it. Let's say you adopt two dogs. One is a golden retriever who you got from a loving home that just didn't have the means to take care of him anymore (at least that's what they told you). Golden retrievers are renowned for being friendly, playful dogs that are great with kids, and the couple who gave him to you house trained him and took him to obedience school and everything. The other dog is a big, mean doberman (no offense to dobermans) who was a stray most of his life and has lived a surprisingly long time with rabies, dementia, a demonic possession, a gangrenous thorn in his paw, and a stick up his butt. Now, if the doberman were to poop on the carpet, tear up the furniture, vomit in your shoes, and bite the neighbor's kid, that would by no means be acceptable, but it would pretty much be expected and hey, you should have known better. While it's unacceptable for the doberman to do those things, it would be even more so (and more surprising) for the golden who's supposedly house trained and has such a good reputation. Even if he poops on the carpet a little less and maybe only bites you and not the neighbor's kid, that doesn't make it OK for the golden retriever to do those things. He should know better.

[Zaras]

Well, if Israel is supposed to be this non-extremist, democratic, secular, and generally corruption-free state, shouldn't they be held to a higher standard than, say, Syria?

Yes, but you can't reconcile being non-extremist, democratic, secular, etc. with trying to maintain a certain equilibrium of ethnicities and thus the advantages and privileges of one.

Maybe the whole conflict would be at less of a stumbling block if the people in charge of the state of Israel dropped all that "Jewish state" bullshit and decided to make Israel a state for everybody regardless of religion/ethnicity/etc. But that probably won't happen.

[Saint Jade IV]

Maybe the whole conflict would be at less of a stumbling block if the people in charge of the state of Israel dropped all that "Jewish state" bullshit and decided to make Israel a state for everybody regardless of religion/ethnicity/etc. But that probably won't happen.

I agree completely.

[Fanaglia]

Maybe the whole conflict would be at less of a stumbling block if the people in charge of the state of Israel dropped all that "Jewish state" bullshit and decided to make Israel a state for everybody regardless of religion/ethnicity/etc. But that probably won't happen.

I agree completely.

Me, too.

[Vecherd]

No one is bitching about either of those nations even a fraction of what they do with Israel. Besides, it is the teacher that is the asshole that catches Johnny wanking.

So Human Rights Groups are assholes for finding out that Israel oppresses Palestinians and other Arabs?

What I am saying is Masturbation is not an evil thing.

[Gravlen]

No, it doesn't, really. Either Israel is generally corruption free, or it's not. A comparison with neighbouring countries is irrelevant in that regard.

Though I am amazed at your determination at using "others are worse" as an excuse. Do you always do that? Would you call a serial rapist a "generally good guy" because he's sharing a cell with a serial killer, and in comparison is not as bad?

It's not an excuse. It is a fact.

You certainly use it as an excuse. Because country B is worse, we shouldn't be so upset when country A does something bad. So why all this attention on SOPA when China is worse? Why care about "Don't ask, don't tell" when Iran has outlawed homosexual acts?

You use it as an excuse and diversion, but it really doesn't work.

But you people don't seem to realise this. According to people like you, Israel is inherently evil no matter what it does, and nothing is said about other countries which have committed far worse atrocities.

Wrong, oh, and your bias is showing.

As I've said before: Any breach of human rights is worthy of condemnation. My criticism does not stop with Israel, but has also been - and will continue to be - leveled at other offenders as well, be they Arabic countries, Asian countries, African countries or others.

Everyone is so up in arms about this. Yet when a thread posted about the atrocities being committed against people in Syria, for example, hardly anyone turns out to express their disgust. People actually go into a thread like that defending the actions of a dictator.

Yes, it's as disgusting as when someone comes into a thread about Israel defending overt human rights violations.