Israel upholds citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses

[Arumdaum]

And you do realize this still doesn't make Israel any better than it already is, right?

So, you're sayin Israel is good because it permits the operation of humanitarian NGO's?

No, I think Israel is very, very bad.

And you do realize Israel greatly restricts their actions, right?

So it's okay now since people were committing genocide before the Nazis?

You're not getting the point. Not every genocide is because of what the Nazis did nor is every genocide related to Nazi policy. I'm not saying it is OK at all. But I think it is absolutely stupid to say genocide=Nazism. If people want to be ignorant and make that comparison, that's their perogative. But I don't want to equate that ethnic violence in Nigeria or Rwanda is the result of the Holocaust.

Looks like you didn't get our point.

We were saying that this is comparable to the Nazis, not that the Israelis are Nazis. We like to bring this up because in RL shittons of people will start calling you a racist and tell you how much the Jews suffered under the Nazis if you don't like Israel.

[Costa Fiero]

No, I think Israel is very, very bad.

And you do realize Israel greatly restricts their actions, right?

Any evidence of this? Or is this more rhetoric?

We were saying that this is comparable to the Nazis, not that the Israelis are Nazis. We like to bring this up because in RL shittons of people will start calling you a racist and tell you how much the Jews suffered under the Nazis if you don't like Israel.

No, I'm fairly sure that people have been calling Israel a Nazi state.

[Arumdaum]

No, I think Israel is very, very bad.

And you do realize Israel greatly restricts their actions, right?

Any evidence of this? Or is this more rhetoric?

Why yes~

We were saying that this is comparable to the Nazis, not that the Israelis are Nazis. We like to bring this up because in RL shittons of people will start calling you a racist and tell you how much the Jews suffered under the Nazis if you don't like Israel.

No, I'm fairly sure that people have been calling Israel a Nazi state.

Like?....

[Gravlen]

It is generally corruption free

Transarency Internationals Corruption Perceptions Index gives it a score of 5.8 out of 10. I'm not sure if your statement is accurate.

[World Conservatives]

How un-Jewish.

[Costa Fiero]

Transarency Internationals Corruption Perceptions Index gives it a score of 5.8 out of 10. I'm not sure if your statement is accurate.

It is more free from corruption than all of its neighbours. So, my point still stands.

Why yes~

This is the Gaza Strip, not Israel. NGO's are permitted to operate freely within Israel.

Like?....

Care to look back through the thread?

[Gravlen]

Transarency Internationals Corruption Perceptions Index gives it a score of 5.8 out of 10. I'm not sure if your statement is accurate.

It is more free from corruption than all of its neighbours. So, my point still stands.

No, it doesn't, really. Either Israel is generally corruption free, or it's not. A comparison with neighbouring countries is irrelevant in that regard.

Though I am amazed at your determination at using "others are worse" as an excuse. Do you always do that? Would you call a serial rapist a "generally good guy" because he's sharing a cell with a serial killer, and in comparison is not as bad?

[North Calaveras]

It is more free from corruption than all of its neighbours. So, my point still stands.

No, it doesn't, really. Either Israel is generally corruption free, or it's not. A comparison with neighbouring countries is irrelevant in that regard.

Though I am amazed at your determination at using "others are worse" as an excuse. Do you always do that? Would you call a serial rapist a "generally good guy" because he's sharing a cell with a serial killer, and in comparison is not as bad?

I would say more along the lines of israel being a shoplifter and the other nations being serial killers, that sounds more reasonable.

[Gravlen]

No, it doesn't, really. Either Israel is generally corruption free, or it's not. A comparison with neighbouring countries is irrelevant in that regard.

Though I am amazed at your determination at using "others are worse" as an excuse. Do you always do that? Would you call a serial rapist a "generally good guy" because he's sharing a cell with a serial killer, and in comparison is not as bad?

I would say more along the lines of israel being a shoplifter and the other nations being serial killers, that sounds more reasonable.

*Yawn*

[Gauthier]

No, it doesn't, really. Either Israel is generally corruption free, or it's not. A comparison with neighbouring countries is irrelevant in that regard.

Though I am amazed at your determination at using "others are worse" as an excuse. Do you always do that? Would you call a serial rapist a "generally good guy" because he's sharing a cell with a serial killer, and in comparison is not as bad?

I would say more along the lines of israel being a shoplifter and the other nations being serial killers, that sounds more reasonable.

And of course laws in civilized nations condone shoplifting because there are serial killers out there.

[North Calaveras]

I would say more along the lines of israel being a shoplifter and the other nations being serial killers, that sounds more reasonable.

And of course laws in civilized nations condone shoplifting because there are serial killers out there.

no, but if were going to compare israel to rapists and the muslims states to killers, id still say that if they were two criminals Israel would be the extrmely minor offender, probably let off with maybe a warning.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Northern Caleveras, I don't harp much on Saudi Arabia (well, not as much as I should) because I take it for granted that most people would agree that the type of government it enforces and the social values it cultivates are among the most repugnant on the fucking planet; no decent state should justify it conduct by comparing themselves to Saudi Arabia, which is a country that makes bloody Iran look progressive.

But they don't proclaim themselves to be an oasis of democracy, and a bastion of human rights, do they?

[Gravlen]

no, but if were going to compare israel to rapists and the muslims states to killers...

Which nobody did, by the way.

...Israel would be the extrmely minor offender, probably let off with maybe a warning.

Fuck that noise, human rights violators should never simply be let off with a warning, they should be required to get their shit in order ASAP.

[Zaras]

So it's okay now since people were committing genocide before the Nazis?

You're not getting the point. Not every genocide is because of what the Nazis did nor is every genocide related to Nazi policy. I'm not saying it is OK at all. But I think it is absolutely stupid to say genocide=Nazism. If people want to be ignorant and make that comparison, that's their perogative. But I don't want to equate that ethnic violence in Nigeria or Rwanda is the result of the Holocaust.

That's terrible wording on my part, sorry. I only used "Godwinish" because I was replying to somebody who kind of categorically said that Israel couldn't be Nazi but in the same breath implied Islam is a murderous religion. Should've phrased it better...

[Gauthier]

no, but if were going to compare israel to rapists and the muslims states to killers...

Which nobody did, by the way.

...Israel would be the extrmely minor offender, probably let off with maybe a warning.

Fuck that noise, human rights violators should never simply be let off with a warning, they should be required to get their shit in order ASAP.

Humans Rights don't apply to Moslems, silly! They're for humans!

[North Calaveras]

Northern Caleveras, I don't harp much on Saudi Arabia (well, not as much as I should) because I take it for granted that most people would agree that the type of government it enforces and the social values it cultivates are among the most repugnant on the fucking planet; no decent state should justify it conduct by comparing themselves to Saudi Arabia, which is a country that makes bloody Iran look progressive.

But they don't proclaim themselves to be an oasis of democracy, and a bastion of human rights, do they?

They do claim to be "Free" they also claim gays don't exist and that the imam will return, they do lots of crazy shit which makes it even worse because not only do they say they are a republic they actively put down any opposition.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Northern Caleveras, I don't harp much on Saudi Arabia (well, not as much as I should) because I take it for granted that most people would agree that the type of government it enforces and the social values it cultivates are among the most repugnant on the fucking planet; no decent state should justify it conduct by comparing themselves to Saudi Arabia, which is a country that makes bloody Iran look progressive.

But they don't proclaim themselves to be an oasis of democracy, and a bastion of human rights, do they?

They do claim to be "Free" they also claim gays don't exist and that the imam will return, they do lots of crazy shit which makes it even worse because not only do they say they are a republic they actively put down any opposition.

Saudi Arabia, claiming to be "free".

When?

Also the Imam returning is a Shia thing. Sunnis converting to Shia get executed for apostasy in Saudi Arabia, so might want to make a mental note of that.

[North Calaveras]

They do claim to be "Free" they also claim gays don't exist and that the imam will return, they do lots of crazy shit which makes it even worse because not only do they say they are a republic they actively put down any opposition.

Saudi Arabia, claiming to be "free".

When?

Also the Imam returning is a Shia thing. Sunnis converting to Shia get executed for apostasy in Saudi Arabia, so might want to make a mental note of that.

I was referring to Iran.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Saudi Arabia, claiming to be "free".

When?

Also the Imam returning is a Shia thing. Sunnis converting to Shia get executed for apostasy in Saudi Arabia, so might want to make a mental note of that.

I was referring to Iran.

Alright.

But Iran is heavily criticised both on this forum, and in the media generally for its human rights abuses.

[North Calaveras]

I was referring to Iran.

Alright.

But Iran is heavily criticised both on this forum, and in the media generally for its human rights abuses.

Not as much as Israel and most of the Iran threads don't start off as anti-Israeli rhetoric, but i agree Iran is about the only nation that NS pays significant time to, but that's probably because its in the media latley.

[Cromarty]

Transarency Internationals Corruption Perceptions Index gives it a score of 5.8 out of 10. I'm not sure if your statement is accurate.

It is more free from corruption than all of its neighbours. So, my point still stands.

Whilst, in most categories, Israel surpasses its neighbours to varying degrees (massively with regards to Syria, who score 16 for actual implementation and 35 for legal framework in Global Integrity's 2009 report on the country), in 2006 Global Integrity ranked Israel's government accountability as weak, ranking it alongside the score of Turkey in 2004 and in 2007, barely ahead of Lebanon in 2006, Kenya in 2006, behind India in 2006, Guatamala in 2006, and well behind Ghana in 2006 and Georgia in 2006. Israel was, however, well ahead of Egypt in 2006.

Note that I was judging countries purely on their Government Accountability rating as scored by Global Integrity. Using GI can be both useful and confusing when attempting to compare and contrast levels of corruption, especially as GI doesn't rank every country, and hasn't even visited Israel since 2006, making comparisons especially difficult here.

However, being more free from corruption than Egypt, Syria and Lebanon isn't really something to crowing about, especially if, despite being a first world nation, you're behind India, Guatamala, Ghana and Georgia in terms of government accountability.

[North Calaveras]

It is more free from corruption than all of its neighbours. So, my point still stands.

Whilst, in most categories, Israel surpasses its neighbours to varying degrees (massively with regards to Syria, who score 16 for actual implementation and 35 for legal framework in Global Integrity's 2009 report on the country), in 2006 Global Integrity ranked Israel's government accountability as weak, ranking it alongside the score of Turkey in 2004 and in 2007, barely ahead of Lebanon in 2006, Kenya in 2006, behind India in 2006, Guatamala in 2006, and well behind Ghana in 2006 and Georgia in 2006. Israel was, however, well ahead of Egypt in 2006.

Note that I was judging countries purely on their Government Accountability rating as scored by Global Integrity. Using GI can be both useful and confusing when attempting to compare and contrast levels of corruption, especially as GI doesn't rank every country, and hasn't even visited Israel since 2006, making comparisons especially difficult here.

However, being more free from corruption than Egypt, Syria and Lebanon isn't really something to crowing about, especially if, despite being a first world nation, you're behind India, Guatamala, Ghana and Georgia in terms of government accountability.

How does Israel stack up against its neighbors in the areas of

civil rights and political freedom

[Cromarty]

Whilst, in most categories, Israel surpasses its neighbours to varying degrees (massively with regards to Syria, who score 16 for actual implementation and 35 for legal framework in Global Integrity's 2009 report on the country), in 2006 Global Integrity ranked Israel's government accountability as weak, ranking it alongside the score of Turkey in 2004 and in 2007, barely ahead of Lebanon in 2006, Kenya in 2006, behind India in 2006, Guatamala in 2006, and well behind Ghana in 2006 and Georgia in 2006. Israel was, however, well ahead of Egypt in 2006.

Note that I was judging countries purely on their Government Accountability rating as scored by Global Integrity. Using GI can be both useful and confusing when attempting to compare and contrast levels of corruption, especially as GI doesn't rank every country, and hasn't even visited Israel since 2006, making comparisons especially difficult here.

However, being more free from corruption than Egypt, Syria and Lebanon isn't really something to crowing about, especially if, despite being a first world nation, you're behind India, Guatamala, Ghana and Georgia in terms of government accountability.

How does Israel stack up against its neighbors in the areas of

civil rights and political freedom

Very well. Probably better than all of them.

[EnragedMaldivians]

How does Israel stack up against its neighbors in the areas of

civil rights and political freedom

Very well. Probably better than all of them.

Yes, but then again, being better than Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia of all places (they kill people for witchcraft ffs) isn't really all that much of an accomplishment.

To NC: I get that Israel isn't the worst offender in the Middle East - and while I do keep things in perspective and don't absolve any of these states for their transgressions, Israel treats Palestinians like shit, and they don't deserve to be treated like shit, anymore than the average Israeli deserves to be the victim of a terror attack.

[North Calaveras]

Very well. Probably better than all of them.

Yes, but then again, being better than Egypt, Iran, and Saudi Arabia of all places (they kill people for witchcraft ffs) isn't really all that much of an accomplishment.

To NC: I get that Israel isn't the worst offender in the Middle East - and while I do keep things in perspective and don't absolve any of these states for their transgressions, Israel treats Palestinians like shit, and they don't deserve to be treated like shit, anymore than the average Israeli deserves to be the victim of a terror attack.

wow...you actually responded to me in a non-aggressive way, thank you

btw Israel is probably better than most country in the entire world. Yeah, they do things in the name of national security(there reasons being better than any other nation ive heard for having them)

I just look at the two offenders

one side i see Israel: a democracy, well-known for having wide ranging freedoms, allows muslims to live and even have positions of authority

Palestine: Run by a elected terrorist organization, well-known for being a hive of terrorist activity as well as brutal treatment towards jew and christians, for that matter any faith other than islam is usually pushed into the ground.

I just take the side of Israel because I personally believe that it is in fact a bastion of hope in the middle east, hell they could ban gays in Israel and they would still beat its neighbors when it came to freedom.