Israel upholds citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses

[Zaras]

Don't 70 percent of Israelies support the state of Palestine anyway?

Not to mention in America the majority of Jews vote for Democrats, which means the majority of Jews are generally not massively Zionist.

And of course, extremists will accuse them of being sellouts or not real Jews...

[Divair]

Don't 70 percent of Israelies support the state of Palestine anyway?

Not to mention in America the majority of Jews vote for Democrats, which means the majority of Jews are generally not massively Zionist.

Many Israelis do want a state of Palestine, yes.
The only problem is the political system we have.

We came very close to having a prime minister who would have destroyed settlements and recognized Palestine, but she didn't accept bribes from the religious parties to form a coalition. Netanyahu won instead because he accepted the bribes, even though most of the country didn't want him elected.

[Knusk]

The act is all about security. Allowing a person in from a neighbouring country where rockets get fired at you from on a regular basis without a security check is a foolish thing to do.

Yes. Israel is just thinking seven moves ahead. I mean, they could have just demanded security checks, but it provides more security to deny the Palestinians political rights and not allow them permanent residence no matter how many security checks they go through. And besides, since they can get entry permits to visit their spouses, why should the Palestinians be upset?

Can you state that Israeli's that have moved to Palestine have been accepted with open arms? I would like to see a case of a former Israeli moving to Palestine.

Indeed, so would I. And the 500,000+ settlers who have moved to the West Bank doesn't count, nor does any other Israeli moving to a disputed settlement or establishing an (illegal) outpost in the area. And the IDF doesn't count either, so you'll have to disregard Israeli presence (like the about 2,000 soldiers in Hebron protecting the 500 settlers living there) there due to security.

[Galla-]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16526469

This just frustrates me really, marriage conveying citizenship (in my very limited knowledge) is quite common generally, and I also have a generally dislike social engineering to try and keep a state a particular ethnicity.

This is sickening and frustrating. This proves Israel is transitioning into a racist state.

Israel has been a racist state for quite some time...

[Gravlen]

No, actually, it's not a requirement. The requirements under customary international law is:
1) The state has a certain a population,
2) on a certain territory,
3) which is organized under an effective public authority (internal sovereignty), and
4) is (legally) independent of other States (external sovereignty).

Getting membership in the UN requires UNSC approval though.

I was always under the impression that some degree of recognition was essential, as part of criterion (4).

Yeah, it's a common misconception because other countries tend to not be interested in dealing with the state unless they recognize it. But it's not a requirement de jure.

[Jamaalea]

The Palestinians need to respect Israel (I.E. no more Ghadar trees/Quranic genocide quotes please) After that, the Jews can respect Palestinians. Then they can get married and make babies

That sounds lovely. But the Jews don't want their traditions to be extinguished or their race. They are genuinely endangered, and they lost 1/3rd of their people in the Holocaust. They need to repopulate, in order to keep their faith alive. They're obviously worried about interfaith-interracial marriage stunting the growth of the next generation of Jews. As odd as it sounds there is some sense in doing this and the Jewish state feels responsible for keeping the Jewish faith and people alive. Like the "Massacres" that Israel carries out, they don't do it for giggles. Rather, to protect themselves. In doing this they are doing the same thing. There is a genuine motive with logic behind it here, and before we condemn the evil zionists for this let's think about the motive for it. No, I'm not Jewish

Comparing this to nazi race is pathetic. It is nothing to do with "Purity", it's merely a continuing of the Jewish-Israeli SURVIVAL theory.

[Divair]

The Palestinians need to respect Israel (I.E. no more Ghadar trees/Quranic genocide quotes please) After that, the Jews can respect Palestinians. Then they can get married and make babies

That sounds lovely. But the Jews don't want their traditions to be extinguished or their race. They are genuinely endangered, and they lost 1/3rd of their people in the Holocaust. They need to repopulate, in order to keep their faith alive. They're obviously worried about interfaith-interracial marriage stunting the growth of the next generation of Jews. As odd as it sounds there is some sense in doing this and the Jewish state feels responsible for keeping the Jewish faith and people alive. Like the "Massacres" that Israel carries out, they don't do it for giggles. Rather, to protect themselves. In doing this they are doing the same thing. There is a genuine motive with logic behind it here, and before we condemn the evil zionists for this let's think about the motive for it. No, I'm not Jewish

Comparing this to nazi race is pathetic. It is nothing to do with "Purity", it's merely a continuing of the Jewish-Israeli SURVIVAL theory.

Purity is just large scale "survival". If Judaism isn't appealing enough to survive, then it shouldn't be kept alive by killing other people and restricting marriage.

[Jamaalea]

The Palestinians need to respect Israel (I.E. no more Ghadar trees/Quranic genocide quotes please) After that, the Jews can respect Palestinians. Then they can get married and make babies

That sounds lovely. But the Jews don't want their traditions to be extinguished or their race. They are genuinely endangered, and they lost 1/3rd of their people in the Holocaust. They need to repopulate, in order to keep their faith alive. They're obviously worried about interfaith-interracial marriage stunting the growth of the next generation of Jews. As odd as it sounds there is some sense in doing this and the Jewish state feels responsible for keeping the Jewish faith and people alive. Like the "Massacres" that Israel carries out, they don't do it for giggles. Rather, to protect themselves. In doing this they are doing the same thing. There is a genuine motive with logic behind it here, and before we condemn the evil zionists for this let's think about the motive for it. No, I'm not Jewish

Comparing this to nazi race is pathetic. It is nothing to do with "Purity", it's merely a continuing of the Jewish-Israeli SURVIVAL theory.

Purity is just large scale "survival". If Judaism isn't appealing enough to survive, then it shouldn't be kept alive by killing other people and restricting marriage.

First of all, the Jews don't "Kill" other people in order to keep the religion alive. That's another *cough* religion *cough cough* you're mixed up with there Secondly, It's not a matter of if it's "appealing" or not, it's a matter of keeping the traditions alive. Losing Jewish women and men impedes their ability to revive their religion. It's not their fault that their religion is dying. Perhaps if Hitler didn't mass-murder them there would be no need to repopulate.

[Fnordgasm 5]

First of all, the Jews don't "Kill" other people in order to keep the religion alive. That's another *cough* religion *cough cough* you're mixed up with there Secondly, It's not a matter of if it's "appealing" or not, it's a matter of keeping the traditions alive. Losing Jewish women and men impedes their ability to revive their religion. It's not their fault that their religion is dying. Perhaps if Hitler didn't mass-murder them there would be no need to repopulate.

Perhaps if they didn't use their Jew magic on the German economy then they wouldn't be in this situation..

I kid, of course, but do you really consider traditions to be more important than civil rights?

[Divair]

Purity is just large scale "survival". If Judaism isn't appealing enough to survive, then it shouldn't be kept alive by killing other people and restricting marriage.

First of all, the Jews don't "Kill" other people in order to keep the religion alive. That's another *cough* religion *cough cough* you're mixed up with there Secondly, It's not a matter of if it's "appealing" or not, it's a matter of keeping the traditions alive. Losing Jewish women and men impedes their ability to revive their religion. It's not their fault that their religion is dying. Perhaps if Hitler didn't mass-murder them there would be no need to repopulate.

So because a tiny amount of people care about certain traditions, they can limit the freedoms of other people? No. If Judaism dies because no one converts to it and learns the traditions, too bad. Thousands of religions have died off. Judaism shouldn't be an exception.

[Zaras]

Purity is just large scale "survival". If Judaism isn't appealing enough to survive, then it shouldn't be kept alive by killing other people and restricting marriage.

First of all, the Jews don't "Kill" other people in order to keep the religion alive. That's another *cough* religion *cough cough* you're mixed up with there Secondly, It's not a matter of if it's "appealing" or not, it's a matter of keeping the traditions alive. Losing Jewish women and men impedes their ability to revive their religion. It's not their fault that their religion is dying. Perhaps if Hitler didn't mass-murder them there would be no need to repopulate.

It's kind of clueless to call Jews "endangered" when there have been populations in the past who were actively genocided or eradicated but they have a state.

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

Nice of you to imply Muslims kill other people for the lulz, by the way. That totally doesn't destroy your entire argument defending Israel's extremist policies by painting you as a bigot, nosiree. I'm totally not going to bring up Sabra and Shatila now.

Is it really that important to keep a religion artificially alive? Can you really say the population of Israel is that religious, or are they mostly secular? Again, religions have died before, some even actively exterminated, so it sounds very clueless to claim that Judaism is somehow special.

[Costa Fiero]

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

So every state that oppresses and murders members of a people to preserve a minority is somehow Nazi-esque? So, South Africa and Rhodesia were run by Nazis then?

Nice of you to imply Muslims kill other people for the lulz, by the way. That totally doesn't destroy your entire argument defending Israel's extremist policies by painting you as a bigot, nosiree. I'm totally not going to bring up Sabra and Shatila now.

How are Israel's policies extremist? Have you actually looked at some of the laws and punishments in Muslim countries?

[Vecherd]

It is obvious that since Israel is a Jewish state that this action must be Nazism.

[Zeth Rekia]

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

So every state that oppresses and murders members of a people to preserve a minority is somehow Nazi-esque? So, South Africa and Rhodesia were run by Nazis then?

Nice of you to imply Muslims kill other people for the lulz, by the way. That totally doesn't destroy your entire argument defending Israel's extremist policies by painting you as a bigot, nosiree. I'm totally not going to bring up Sabra and Shatila now.

How are Israel's policies extremist? Have you actually looked at some of the laws and punishments in Muslim countries?

Neither of these statement disqualify the fact the Israel is just as corrupt as the rest of the middle eastern antagonists.

[Genivaria]

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

So every state that oppresses and murders members of a people to preserve a minority is somehow Nazi-esque?

Um, yeah.

So, South Africa and Rhodesia were run by Nazis then?

Not the Nazi's themselves, Nazi-ish? Yes.

[Vecherd]

Not the Nazi's themselves, Nazi-ish? Yes.

[/quote]

So Liberia is Nazi-ish to then?

[Fanaglia]

The Palestinians need to respect Israel (I.E. no more Ghadar trees/Quranic genocide quotes please) After that, the Jews can respect Palestinians. Then they can get married and make babies

That sounds lovely. But the Jews don't want their traditions to be extinguished or their race. They are genuinely endangered, and they lost 1/3rd of their people in the Holocaust. They need to repopulate, in order to keep their faith alive. They're obviously worried about interfaith-interracial marriage stunting the growth of the next generation of Jews. As odd as it sounds there is some sense in doing this and the Jewish state feels responsible for keeping the Jewish faith and people alive. Like the "Massacres" that Israel carries out, they don't do it for giggles. Rather, to protect themselves. In doing this they are doing the same thing. There is a genuine motive with logic behind it here, and before we condemn the evil zionists for this let's think about the motive for it. No, I'm not Jewish

Comparing this to nazi race is pathetic. It is nothing to do with "Purity", it's merely a continuing of the Jewish-Israeli SURVIVAL theory.

Mmkay, so if the Romans saw the early Christian church as a threat to their traditions and their people, genocide against the Christians would have been OK? Well, it happened. And guess what? The genocidal maniacs lost and in the end were converted, their traditions lost.

So every state that oppresses and murders members of a people to preserve a minority is somehow Nazi-esque? So, South Africa and Rhodesia were run by Nazis then?

So Liberia is Nazi-ish to then?

Yes and yes. Maybe not Nazi-ish politically or economically, but in the whole genocidal "master race" mentality. If you participate in any sort of ethnic cleansing (even if it is for "survival"), you share something in common with the good ol' NSDAP.

How are Israel's policies extremist? Have you actually looked at some of the laws and punishments in Muslim countries?

Just because countries like Iran and Syria are worse doesn't make Israel OK or even not extremist.

That's like the teacher catching Little Johnny wanking in the school bathroom and he defends himself by saying "Well, Billy raped a girl in the school bathroom yesterday!"

[Costa Fiero]

Yes and yes. Maybe not Nazi-ish politically or economically, but in the whole genocidal "master race" mentality. If you participate in any sort of ethnic cleansing (even if it is for "survival"), you share something in common with the good ol' NSDAP.

On what planet is this considered logical? There were genocides before the NSDAP was even created.

Just because countries like Iran and Syria are worse doesn't make Israel OK or even not extremist.

That's like the teacher catching Little Johnny wanking in the school bathroom and he defends himself by saying "Well, Billy raped a girl in the school bathroom yesterday!"

But Israel isn't extremist. The state is democratic. It is secular. It is generally corruption free and it doesn't have a religion that kills people for converting to other religions, nor delcares war in the name of God.

I'm not denying that there are some extremists in Israel (because denying it outright would be stupid), but Israel as a state and as a people are not the extremists your type loves to portray them as.

[Vecherd]

Just because countries like Iran and Syria are worse doesn't make Israel OK or even not extremist.

That's like the teacher catching Little Johnny wanking in the school bathroom and he defends himself by saying "Well, Billy raped a girl in the school bathroom yesterday!"

No one is bitching about either of those nations even a fraction of what they do with Israel. Besides, it is the teacher that is the asshole that catches Johnny wanking.

[Arumdaum]

Just because countries like Iran and Syria are worse doesn't make Israel OK or even not extremist.

That's like the teacher catching Little Johnny wanking in the school bathroom and he defends himself by saying "Well, Billy raped a girl in the school bathroom yesterday!"

No one is bitching about either of those nations even a fraction of what they do with Israel. Besides, it is the teacher that is the asshole that catches Johnny wanking.

So Human Rights Groups are assholes for finding out that Israel oppresses Palestinians and other Arabs?

[Arumdaum]

So, they survive by oppressing and murdering other people? Gee, how is that not Godwinish?

So every state that oppresses and murders members of a people to preserve a minority is somehow Nazi-esque? So, South Africa and Rhodesia were run by Nazis then?

They're trying to preserve the majority, actually. And yes, I consider every state that murders and oppresses members of a race for no reason other than that their race may be continue to be the majority racial group Nazi-esque.

[Costa Fiero]

So Human Rights Groups are assholes for finding out that Israel oppresses Palestinians and other Arabs?

No, but they do direct more reports and other stuff against Israel because the have the ability to conduct their research freely. Something you can't do in, say, Syria.

[Arumdaum]

So Human Rights Groups are assholes for finding out that Israel oppresses Palestinians and other Arabs?

No, but they do direct more reports and other stuff against Israel because the have the ability to conduct their research freely. Something you can't do in, say, Syria.

And you do realize this still doesn't make Israel any better than it already is, right?

[Arumdaum]

Yes and yes. Maybe not Nazi-ish politically or economically, but in the whole genocidal "master race" mentality. If you participate in any sort of ethnic cleansing (even if it is for "survival"), you share something in common with the good ol' NSDAP.

On what planet is this considered logical? There were genocides before the NSDAP was even created.

So it's okay now since people were committing genocide before the Nazis?

[Costa Fiero]

And you do realize this still doesn't make Israel any better than it already is, right?

So, you're sayin Israel is good because it permits the operation of humanitarian NGO's?

So it's okay now since people were committing genocide before the Nazis?

You're not getting the point. Not every genocide is because of what the Nazis did nor is every genocide related to Nazi policy. I'm not saying it is OK at all. But I think it is absolutely stupid to say genocide=Nazism. If people want to be ignorant and make that comparison, that's their perogative. But I don't want to equate that ethnic violence in Nigeria or Rwanda is the result of the Holocaust.