Israel upholds citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses

[Costa Fiero]

The movement for a purely Israeli state goes back a lot further than just WWII is the problem, and does follow along similar principles as the desire for a purely German state, ironically enough.

Firstly, define a "pure Israeli".

Secondly, if the government wishes to establish a pure state in any form, it would have to be a Jewish state, as per why Israel was originally created in the first place.

[Maurepas]

The movement for a purely Israeli state goes back a lot further than just WWII is the problem, and does follow along similar principles as the desire for a purely German state, ironically enough.

Firstly, define a "pure Israeli".

Secondly, if the government wishes to establish a pure state in any form, it would have to be a Jewish state, as per why Israel was originally created in the first place.

Jewish/Israeli, same thing to the leaders of Israel. Hence this ban.

[Costa Fiero]

Jewish/Israeli, same thing to the leaders of Israel. Hence this ban.

This doesn't appear to be a very good definition. Many Israelis are neither Jewish nor of European stock.

[Maurepas]

Jewish/Israeli, same thing to the leaders of Israel. Hence this ban.

This doesn't appear to be a very good definition. Many Israelis are neither Jewish nor of European stock.

I'm not defining anything, I'm stating the fact that the goal of people like Netanyahu is to fill the entirety of Palestine with Jewish settlers and eradicate the Palestinian majority in the lands they currently control.

Which is why this ban exists, as it would allow Palestinians access to citizenship, voting rights, etc., and run counter to the Israeli government's goals.

[Costa Fiero]

I'm not defining anything, I'm stating the fact that the goal of people like Netanyahu is to fill the entirety of Palestine with Jewish settlers and eradicate the Palestinian majority in the lands they currently control.

I asked you to define a "pure Israeli", seeing as you seemed to bend it to a parallel with Nazi racial-centricism.

Which is why this ban exists, as it would allow Palestinians access to citizenship, voting rights, etc., and run counter to the Israeli government's goals.

The Knesset and Israel already has Muslim/Arab politicans and a Muslim/Arab party. Also, Netanyahu's "goals" seem to be failing. I see no Israeli settlers in Gaza for instance.

[Maurepas]

I'm not defining anything, I'm stating the fact that the goal of people like Netanyahu is to fill the entirety of Palestine with Jewish settlers and eradicate the Palestinian majority in the lands they currently control.

I asked you to define a "pure Israeli", seeing as you seemed to bend it to a parallel with Nazi racial-centricism.

Which is why this ban exists, as it would allow Palestinians access to citizenship, voting rights, etc., and run counter to the Israeli government's goals.

The Knesset and Israel already has Muslim/Arab politicans and a Muslim/Arab party. Also, Netanyahu's "goals" seem to be failing. I see no Israeli settlers in Gaza for instance.

That's because they've focused on the West Bank at present:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15080160

And I don't think I'm doing a whole lot of "bending" to suggest that Israel desired a Jewish State in Palestine, just as the Germans wanted a German one in Europe.

Now, I'm not calling them "Nazis", that would be a bit of bending, I'm just saying they're somewhat hypocritical in their aims to deny the rights of Palestinians and their attempts to block a Palestinian state.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Dicks.

[Costa Fiero]

That's because they've focused on the West Bank at present:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15080160

And I don't think I'm doing a whole lot of "bending" to suggest that Israel desired a Jewish State in Palestine, just as the Germans wanted a German one in Europe.

But this is where they differ. The Germans wanted an ethnically pure state. The Israelis (supposedly) want a religiously pure/prioritised state, much like those which Israel shares borders with.

I have a feeling the Likud Party is the equivalent of the Republican Party in the United States. From recent protests, I doubt the Israeli public is very keen on letting religious zealots control their lives.

Now, I'm not calling them "Nazis", that would be a bit of bending, I'm just saying they're somewhat hypocritical in their aims to deny the rights of Palestinians and their attempts to block a Palestinian state.

A pure Aryan state was what Hitler and the Nazi Party wanted. You can't apply the same logic to the Palestinians/Israelis. And as far as I am aware, Netanyahu was willing to negotiate with Abbas on a final settlement in terms of borders and population shifts, essentially a larger repeat of what was completed in 2006.

[New Chalcedon]

That's because they've focused on the West Bank at present:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15080160

And I don't think I'm doing a whole lot of "bending" to suggest that Israel desired a Jewish State in Palestine, just as the Germans wanted a German one in Europe.

But this is where they differ. The Germans wanted an ethnically pure state. The Israelis (supposedly) want a religiously pure/prioritised state, much like those which Israel shares borders with.

Not really. While there is some social discrimination toward Israel's 20% Arab-Israeli minority, under the law, they are largely equal to Jews. What Israel wanted was neither an ethnically-pure nor a religiously-pure state - they wanted a homeland where they could (the irony!) feel safe from persecution, such as that conducted by the Nazis and echoed to varying degree throughout the Islamic world as Islamic-Jewish relations cooled.

I have a feeling the Likud Party is the equivalent of the Republican Party in the United States. From recent protests, I doubt the Israeli public is very keen on letting religious zealots control their lives.

As I understand it - and my understanding is fairly vague - Likud is like the GOP in that they are both nationalistic, conservative, hawkish parties. They are unlike the GOP in that Likud doesn't really have a strong religious identity - it's a secular nationalist party, in some respects not entirely unlike the pre-Saddam Ba'ath Party.

Now, I'm not calling them "Nazis", that would be a bit of bending, I'm just saying they're somewhat hypocritical in their aims to deny the rights of Palestinians and their attempts to block a Palestinian state.

A pure Aryan state was what Hitler and the Nazi Party wanted. You can't apply the same logic to the Palestinians/Israelis. And as far as I am aware, Netanyahu was willing to negotiate with Abbas on a final settlement in terms of borders and population shifts, essentially a larger repeat of what was completed in 2006.

Not only that, "Palestinians" already have a State - Jordan - east of the Jordan River (making up 2/3 of the old Mandate of Palestine), and even Likud has explicitly stated that it has no problem with self-governing Palestinian communities, so long as they tend their own business and stop sending in suicide-bombers and mortar attacks. Netanyahu's negotiating skills are.....subpar, however - not to mention that Likud has it as an article of faith that Israel rightly owns the West Bank and the Golan Heights, and wishes to permanently annex them (needless to say, this makes negotiations DOA as a rule when Likud is in government). Mind you, Sharon's faction of Likud has changed that to simply building a big-ass fence and unilaterally leaving (most of) the West Bank and Gaza.

[Kazomal]

. . .While there is some social discrimination toward Israel's 20% Arab-Israeli minority, under the law, they are largely equal to Jews. What Israel wanted was neither an ethnically-pure nor a religiously-pure state. .

More than some social and official discrimination. I'm running out the door for work, so I'll have to bring examples later.

And yes, Israel is very concerned with controlling the religous/ethnic makeup of their country. They say as much straight-out. That is why they constantly deny displaced Palestinians the right to return, and why they have upheld the citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses. The judge in the case said that doing so would be "national suicide."

Letting Arabs becomes citizens is "national suicide." Only European Jews!

[Zaras]

. . .While there is some social discrimination toward Israel's 20% Arab-Israeli minority, under the law, they are largely equal to Jews. What Israel wanted was neither an ethnically-pure nor a religiously-pure state. .

More than some social and official discrimination. I'm running out the door for work, so I'll have to bring examples later.

And yes, Israel is very concerned with controlling the religous/ethnic makeup of their country. They say as much straight-out. That is why they constantly deny displaced Palestinians the right to return, and why they have upheld the citizenship bar for Palestinian spouses. The judge in the case said that doing so would be "national suicide."

Letting Arabs becomes citizens is "national suicide." Only European Jews!

I wonder if Israel would have an easier time if it stopped claiming to be a Jewish-majority state and just became a regular, democratic state for all citizens?

[Risottia]

"The law was introduced in 2003, with its backers citing security concerns and the need to ensure Israel remains a Jewish-majority state."

Jews are not a race

Nein, sie sind ein Volk. Und das Volk braucht Land als Lebensraum.

Whoopsie.

[Alaje]

Damn Jews, will they ever learn.

[Trixiestan]

Damn Jews, will they ever learn.

Whoaaaa there

Damn Israeli government, will they ever learn.

Don't blame the actions of a few twatish politicians and nationalists on all Jewish people. For instance, I don't think these chaps are really into the whole "let's oppress the Palestinians" thing:

[Zaras]

Damn Jews, will they ever learn.

Whoaaaa there

Damn Israeli government, will they ever learn.

Don't blame the actions of a few twatish politicians and nationalists on all Jewish people. For instance, I don't think these chaps are really into the whole "let's oppress the Palestinians" thing:

Thanks for that, I was getting worried that people were actually going to support this dick move.

[Gauthier]

Whoaaaa there

Damn Israeli government, will they ever learn.

Don't blame the actions of a few twatish politicians and nationalists on all Jewish people. For instance, I don't think these chaps are really into the whole "let's oppress the Palestinians" thing:

Thanks for that, I was getting worried that people were actually going to support this dick move.

Israel and their unapologetic supporters in the U.S. call them Jewdases. *badump*

[Zaras]

Thanks for that, I was getting worried that people were actually going to support this dick move.

Israel and their unapologetic supporters in the U.S. call them Jewdases. *badump*

Jewdasses? Ow, my pun centre hurts.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Israel and their unapologetic supporters in the U.S. call them Jewdases. *badump*

Jewdasses? Ow, my pun centre hurts.

I think he meant Judais-ess; not Jewdasses.

[Zaras]

Jewdasses? Ow, my pun centre hurts.

I think he meant Judais-ess; not Jewdasses.

Regardless, the idea that all Jews everywhere needs to kiss Israel's arse unconditionally is about as idiotic as bashing the transgendered for not being "real" men/women/etc.

[The Pretend Pub]

Well Israelis aren't a particular ethnicity, most of them are Europeans. Though there are many Mizrahi Jews who are native to the Middle East/North Africa.

Ethnicity is not necessarily linked to ancestry. Ancestry can be one component of ethnicity, certainly, but it doesn't have to be part of it--and they're certainly not identical.

A distinct Israeli ethnicity is certainly possible, and it wouldn't surprise me if one existed.

[Dyakovo]

I don't really defend any of the Arab states with regard to their policy history on the issue, and the Palestinians cannot be absolved of responsibility either; you seem to absolve Israel of all responsibility altogether, which is my main issue with your stance.

I don't absolve them of anything, my issue is all the anti-Israel threads that pop up and the seemingly non-existent anti-palestinian threads their are. Almost no one jumps on palestine. So naturally your going to see me defending Israel more and more if that's all i get to see on NSG. I don't like making threads, so that's out of the window.

So quit whining about the lack of threads advocating your particular pov...

[Risottia]

Damn Jews, will they ever learn.

Whoaaaa there

Damn Israeli government, will they ever learn.

Also, damn the majority of Israeli voters, will they ever learn?

[Costa Fiero]

Also, damn the majority of Israeli voters, will they ever learn?

Current government's been around since the Second Intifada. Why wouldn't they vote for a party that gives them security? Sure, the Likud Party is the Israeli equivalent of the GOP, but let's not forget what kind of leader the US had before the last elections.

[Gauthier]

Also, damn the majority of Israeli voters, will they ever learn?

Current government's been around since the Second Intifada. Why wouldn't they vote for a party that gives them security? Sure, the Likud Party is the Israeli equivalent of the GOP, but let's not forget what kind of leader the US had before the last elections.

Not to mention a good part of the voting crowd are the psycho ultraorthodoxy, what I call the Hebrew Taliban.

[Maurepas]

That's because they've focused on the West Bank at present:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15080160

And I don't think I'm doing a whole lot of "bending" to suggest that Israel desired a Jewish State in Palestine, just as the Germans wanted a German one in Europe.

But this is where they differ. The Germans wanted an ethnically pure state. The Israelis (supposedly) want a religiously pure/prioritised state, much like those which Israel shares borders with.

I have a feeling the Likud Party is the equivalent of the Republican Party in the United States. From recent protests, I doubt the Israeli public is very keen on letting religious zealots control their lives.

Now, I'm not calling them "Nazis", that would be a bit of bending, I'm just saying they're somewhat hypocritical in their aims to deny the rights of Palestinians and their attempts to block a Palestinian state.

A pure Aryan state was what Hitler and the Nazi Party wanted. You can't apply the same logic to the Palestinians/Israelis. And as far as I am aware, Netanyahu was willing to negotiate with Abbas on a final settlement in terms of borders and population shifts, essentially a larger repeat of what was completed in 2006.

I don't think you can really make the case that wanting a "religiously pure" and an "ethnically pure" state are really all that different. Especially when that religion is Judaism, an exception among most religions in that it also constitutes an ethnicity.

And Netanyahu emphatically stated that the settlements would continue and the idea of a Palestinian state was anathema to his worldview.

Further, I'm not necessarily talking about the Nazis, Germany was shooting for Greater Germany before Hitler came to power.