US Marines and mistreatment of Taliban dead

[Dyakovo]

Then again, you would also not encourage it in the first place.



I suppose one can, but I dunno...

The soldiers are certainly the ones who DID these things. They could have NOT done it, but they chose to.

Then again, when you see your enemy as inhuman and lower than low, and you have been taught this by your superiors, they often don't think their superiors are going to cover their asses (and that they're better at it) and then leave them in the wind.

That's what scares me about americans...They seem to think anyone without a US passport is somehow "less valuable" and unimportant. I wouldn't really mind if they'd just stay in america with their guns and their peanut-butter, but sadly they haven't. This bunch of "ubermensch" have gone all Mongolian on the rest of us. They are truly scary people.

I don't consider everyone that is not a US citizen less valuable and/or unimportant... Trolls on the other hand...

[Farnhamia]

Then again, you would also not encourage it in the first place.



I suppose one can, but I dunno...

The soldiers are certainly the ones who DID these things. They could have NOT done it, but they chose to.

Then again, when you see your enemy as inhuman and lower than low, and you have been taught this by your superiors, they often don't think their superiors are going to cover their asses (and that they're better at it) and then leave them in the wind.

That's what scares me about americans...They seem to think anyone without a US passport is somehow "less valuable" and unimportant. I wouldn't really mind if they'd just stay in america with their guns and their peanut-butter, but sadly they haven't. This bunch of "ubermensch" have gone all Mongolian on the rest of us. They are truly scary people.

Not at all. People with foreign passports have value commensurate with the amount of oil their country has. Oil, and rare earth minerals and things like that.



Where do you live that the United States has gone "all Mongolian" on you?

[The Rich Port]

Then again, you would also not encourage it in the first place.



I suppose one can, but I dunno...

The soldiers are certainly the ones who DID these things. They could have NOT done it, but they chose to.

Then again, when you see your enemy as inhuman and lower than low, and you have been taught this by your superiors, they often don't think their superiors are going to cover their asses (and that they're better at it) and then leave them in the wind.

Bullshit. When I was in everyone assumed that if something went wrong the upper echelons would push the blame as far down the chain of command as plausible deniability would allow.

Maybe you and your platoon mates did, but there's millions of soldiers in the U.S. Military. They're all different, despite the conformity the upper ranks push and push on them.

But even I, who haven't been in the military, would have shared you and your fellow soldiers' mindsets, from the get-go.

I dunno what's worse: that the commanders aren't blamed, or that the soldiers don't trust them in the first place.

[Dyakovo]

6: I have no idea what you're talking about here... Care to elaborate?

Fay/Jones Report found that Capt. Wood "Failed to provide proper supervision. Should have been more alert due to the following incidents:
An ongoing investigation on the 519 MI BN in Afghanistan.
Prior reports of 519 MI BN interrogators conducting unauthorized interrogations.
SOLDIER29's reported use of nudity and humiliation techniques.
Quick Reaction Force (QRF) allegations of detainee abuse by 519th MI Soldiers."

Ah, thank you.
Which makes my response "See #5".

[Dyakovo]

Bullshit. When I was in everyone assumed that if something went wrong the upper echelons would push the blame as far down the chain of command as plausible deniability would allow.

Maybe you and your platoon mates did, but there's millions of soldiers in the U.S. Military. They're all different, despite the conformity the upper ranks push and push on them.

But even I, who haven't been in the military, would have shared you and your fellow soldiers' mindsets, from the get-go.

I dunno what's worse: that the commanders aren't blamed, or that the soldiers don't trust them in the first place.

Myself and everyone that I dealt with while I was in.

[The Rich Port]

Maybe you and your platoon mates did, but there's millions of soldiers in the U.S. Military. They're all different, despite the conformity the upper ranks push and push on them.

But even I, who haven't been in the military, would have shared you and your fellow soldiers' mindsets, from the get-go.

I dunno what's worse: that the commanders aren't blamed, or that the soldiers don't trust them in the first place.

Myself and everyone that I dealt with while I was in.

Like I said, I don't wholly disagree with you.

I can't understand how naive you can be to wholly trust your superior.

I'm just saying that you can't speak for everyone in the military.

I'm certain you and I both know how deceiving and manipulative the military can be. It wouldn't surprise if there were people who actually were that naive.

[Dyakovo]

Myself and everyone that I dealt with while I was in.

Like I said, I don't wholly disagree with you.

I can't understand how naive you can be to wholly trust your superior.

I'm just saying that you can't speak for everyone in the military.

I'm certain you and I both know how deceiving and manipulative the military can be. It wouldn't surprise if there were people who actually were that naive.

No, unfortunately, it wouldn't be surprising at all...

[Lackadaisical2]

So, their basically saying, it's wrong to piss on the dead body of a guy who murdered thousands of innocent lives? So, basically, it would be wrong to piss on the dead body of Hitler for exmaple? Makes sense.

Yes, it would.
You kill shitler and then bury him in an unmarked grave, not piss on his body- we're not them.

The US army better find smeone to convict (preferably the people really responsible for this) and soon- else their troops will have an even harder time staying alive.

Convict of what?

[Dyakovo]

Yes, it would.
You kill shitler and then bury him in an unmarked grave, not piss on his body- we're not them.

The US army better find smeone to convict (preferably the people really responsible for this) and soon- else their troops will have an even harder time staying alive.

Convict of what?

Beats me...
I have no clue what the US Army would be convicting people of based off of this...

Now the Marine Corps on the other hand...

892. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation.
893. 93. Cruelty and maltreatment.
898. 98. Noncompliance with procedural rules.
899. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy.
913. 113. Misbehavior of sentinel.
934. 134. General Article.

[Lackadaisical2]

Convict of what?

Beats me...
I have no clue what the US Army would be convicting people of based off of this...

Now the Marine Corps on the other hand...

892. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation.
893. 93. Cruelty and maltreatment.
898. 98. Noncompliance with procedural rules.
899. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy.
913. 113. Misbehavior of sentinel.
934. 134. General Article.

899 93 seems to deal with people who have command over others, 899 98 sounds like an 'obstruction of justice' type of rule, 899 99, I'm not sure if being before the dead bodies of an enemy is the same as an enemy, and 'misbehavior' is defined in the section, and doesn't include pissing on people. 913 113 is about a sentinel leaving his post, 934 134 seems sufficiently catch-allish and 898 98 would likely work as well.

[The Rich Port]

Beats me...
I have no clue what the US Army would be convicting people of based off of this...

Now the Marine Corps on the other hand...

892. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation.
893. 93. Cruelty and maltreatment.
898. 98. Noncompliance with procedural rules.
899. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy.
913. 113. Misbehavior of sentinel.
934. 134. General Article.

899 93 seems to deal with people who have command over others, 899 98 sounds like an 'obstruction of justice' type of rule, 899 99, I'm not sure if being before the dead bodies of an enemy is the same as an enemy, and 'misbehavior' is defined in the section, and doesn't include pissing on people. 913 113 is about a sentinel leaving his post, 934 134 seems sufficiently catch-allish and 898 98 would likely work as well.

In this age of video cameras, "before the enemy" takes on a whole new meaning.

A conviction on that would be solid, IMO.

[Lackadaisical2]

899 93 seems to deal with people who have command over others, 899 98 sounds like an 'obstruction of justice' type of rule, 899 99, I'm not sure if being before the dead bodies of an enemy is the same as an enemy, and 'misbehavior' is defined in the section, and doesn't include pissing on people. 913 113 is about a sentinel leaving his post, 934 134 seems sufficiently catch-allish and 898 98 would likely work as well.

In this age of video cameras, "before the enemy" takes on a whole new meaning.

Seems a little silly, but OK.

A conviction on that would be solid, IMO.

Read their description of 'misbehavior', its most about running away from the enemy, not pursuing the enemy, throwing down your arms, surrendering, etc. Thats why it has the possibility of the death penalty.

[Dyakovo]

Beats me...
I have no clue what the US Army would be convicting people of based off of this...

Now the Marine Corps on the other hand...

892. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation.
893. 93. Cruelty and maltreatment.
898. 98. Noncompliance with procedural rules.
899. 99. Misbehavior before the enemy.
913. 113. Misbehavior of sentinel.
934. 134. General Article.

899 93 seems to deal with people who have command over others, 899 98 sounds like an 'obstruction of justice' type of rule, 899 99, I'm not sure if being before the dead bodies of an enemy is the same as an enemy, and 'misbehavior' is defined in the section, and doesn't include pissing on people. 913 113 is about a sentinel leaving his post, 934 134 seems sufficiently catch-allish and 898 98 would likely work as well.

On 893 the bodies are under their care/observation and thus it could apply.
On 899 it would(could) fall under clause (9).
On 913 it could be argued that since they are busy (being filmed) pissing on the corpses they are not prepared to defend themselves or their position, thus it could apply.

You're right on 898 though... My bad.

[Lackadaisical2]

Well, you know... Do unto others as you would do unto yourself! They do this to us, and so we give them as they "want".

Which is clearly going to help you win over the Afghan populace.

Its been 10+ years, they will have made their minds up by now, if they sympathize so much with the Taliban that them being peed on is such a shock (particularly compared to the Taliban's actions) I doubt we were ever going to get them on our side.

[Keronians]

Which is clearly going to help you win over the Afghan populace.

Its been 10+ years, they will have made their minds up by now, if they sympathize so much with the Taliban that them being peed on is such a shock (particularly compared to the Taliban's actions) I doubt we were ever going to get them on our side.

Yeah, but being cruel and inhumane to your enemies isn't exactly a commendable thing.

[Lackadaisical2]

Its been 10+ years, they will have made their minds up by now, if they sympathize so much with the Taliban that them being peed on is such a shock (particularly compared to the Taliban's actions) I doubt we were ever going to get them on our side.

Yeah, but being cruel and inhumane to your enemies isn't exactly a commendable thing.

I'm not saying it is, I haven't put them forward for any medals for their brave act of pissing on dead bodies.

[Lackadaisical2]

Look at this guy!

Name one USEFUL thing Afghanistan has done in the past 1,500 years. What? You can't?

They had some cool Buddha statues, but the Taliban blew those up, iirc.

[Lackadaisical2]

Then again, you would also not encourage it in the first place.



I suppose one can, but I dunno...

The soldiers are certainly the ones who DID these things. They could have NOT done it, but they chose to.

Then again, when you see your enemy as inhuman and lower than low, and you have been taught this by your superiors, they often don't think their superiors are going to cover their asses (and that they're better at it) and then leave them in the wind.

That's what scares me about americans...They seem to think anyone without a US passport is somehow "less valuable" and unimportant. I wouldn't really mind them and their violent ways if they'd just stay in america with their guns and their peanut-butter, but sadly they haven't. This bunch of "ubermensch" have gone all Mongolian on the rest of us. They are truly scary people.

Its nice of you to think we're as scary as the Mongolians were, but we don't have the balls to build giant pyramids out of the skulls of our enemies.

[TFF]

Its been 10+ years, they will have made their minds up by now, if they sympathize so much with the Taliban that them being peed on is such a shock (particularly compared to the Taliban's actions) I doubt we were ever going to get them on our side.

Yeah, but being cruel and inhumane to your enemies isn't exactly a commendable thing.

Nor is tossing acid in the faces of littel girls trying to go to school. I would venture alot of Afghanis took some pleasure in those Marines pissing on dead taliban.

[Lackadaisical2]

899 93 seems to deal with people who have command over others, 899 98 sounds like an 'obstruction of justice' type of rule, 899 99, I'm not sure if being before the dead bodies of an enemy is the same as an enemy, and 'misbehavior' is defined in the section, and doesn't include pissing on people. 913 113 is about a sentinel leaving his post, 934 134 seems sufficiently catch-allish and 898 98 would likely work as well.

On 893 the bodies are under their care/observation and thus it could apply.
On 899 it would(could) fall under clause (9).

Maybe, it just seems there are much more applicable sections which they more clearly violated, and since the punishment largely seem to be 'whatever', theres no need to waste time getting them on more than one count.

On 913 it could be argued that since they are busy (being filmed) pissing on the corpses they are not prepared to defend themselves or their position, thus it could apply.

You have to pee sometime, so long as there was no reports of additional enemy nearby, I'd take the time to go wizz (not necessarily on a dead body).

You're right on 898 though... My bad.

No probs.

[Dyakovo]

Yeah, but being cruel and inhumane to your enemies isn't exactly a commendable thing.

Nor is tossing acid in the faces of littel girls trying to go to school. I would venture alot of Afghanis took some pleasure in those Marines pissing on dead taliban.

And a lot didn't... But mostly it is Marines acting unprofessionally and thus something which should be discouraged.

[Dyakovo]

On 893 the bodies are under their care/observation and thus it could apply.
On 899 it would(could) fall under clause (9).

Maybe, it just seems there are much more applicable sections which they more clearly violated, and since the punishment largely seem to be 'whatever', theres no need to waste time getting them on more than one count.

Having multiple counts against them increases the likelihood of being given a speedy trial.

On 913 it could be argued that since they are busy (being filmed) pissing on the corpses they are not prepared to defend themselves or their position, thus it could apply.

You have to pee sometime, so long as there was no reports of additional enemy nearby, I'd take the time to go wizz (not necessarily on a dead body).

But you don't have to get all your buddies together to pee and film it.

[Lackadaisical2]

Maybe, it just seems there are much more applicable sections which they more clearly violated, and since the punishment largely seem to be 'whatever', theres no need to waste time getting them on more than one count.

Having multiple counts against them increases the likelihood of being given a speedy trial.

Sounds backwards to me, less counts, less time spent figuring out if those would apply.

You have to pee sometime, so long as there was no reports of additional enemy nearby, I'd take the time to go wizz (not necessarily on a dead body).

But you don't have to get all your buddies together to pee and film it.

I didn't realize there was a video posted in the article (just read the quoted part in the OP), yeah having 5 guys going to piss (or film) at the same time seems unnecessary.

[Urceo-Carthage]

I didn't realize there was a video posted in the article (just read the quoted part in the OP), yeah having 5 guys going to piss (or film) at the same time seems unnecessary.

In Marine Corps boot camp, 3-4 guys piss on the same toilet, so I'd assume it's pretty much accepted in the Marine Corps to have a group piss

[Arkinesia]

Expecting Marines in the field to behave with some decorum.

That was your first mistake.